Autopsy Rd 7 Carlton v GWS Post Match Discussion/Rant/Whatever

[T2B_]

This isn't the same Carlton of the 20th century. It's now a sad shell of that club, the old "We're Carlton, **** the rest" mentality doesn't fly anymore.

 

[BM123]

Hope we avoid the spoon this year at all costs.

 

[Thrawn]

exactly where we are supposed to be

I'm hoping St. Kilda make a late run.

 

[Cipher]

I feel like I'm being feed a line about this premiership winning game plan that the side who won a flag under it, no longer use.

There isn't a special game plan that wins premierships. It's about building a list capable of playing a brand of footy that can lead to a premiership.

That's why the Cats & Swans continued winning premierships when their coaches left. Right now we need a coach that can build and develop the list, and I believe Mick has more than proven himself to be capable. Don't look for the instant gratification but instead look at the list we are building.

3 years prior to Mick:
Curnow, Casbout, White, Tuohy, Watson, Rowe, Buckley, Bell plus the already delisted Lucas, Davies, Kerr, Cachia, McCarthy, Mitchell, McInnes, Duigan, Bootsma.

3 years since Mick:
Menzel, Docherty, Cripps, Graham, Boekhorst, Jaksch, Whiley, Smith, Sheehan, Byrne, Viojo-Rainbow etc.

That shows to me that we are completely headed in the right direction since Mick has taken over, not just in talent but the type of players that we're seeking and developing. I don't overly care about the senior players anymore, they're not up to it and I'm not worried about patching over their faults for the sake of appeasing inpatient supporters.

It was a bad result today but so too were many of the Giants results over the last few years. Mick inherited a list, but like GWS, largely has needed to build a premiership side from scratch.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

So... lets just say we delist a bunch of contracted guys and have to fork out 3 million our of next years salary cap to pay for them. If, according to rumour, we are currently using 100% of our salary cap, having to pay out multi-year contracts could cost us a couple of players the likes of Cripps, Menzel, Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, or Yarran. Which ones do you want to lose?

Ohh... and if none of those guys, who we can't afford keep, actually want to get traded... what do we do then? because we are over our salary cap for next year... by several hundred thousand? Are you going to dip into your pocket and make up the fines that the AFL will hit us with?

If you think that we are a laughing stock atm... just wait a couple more weeks and it will get worse!

That pretty much supports my argument, regardless of the salary cap issues. Carlton are only going to get worse despite who does or doesn't come in

Obviously some players are probably going to have to be kept. But on-field issues are just as important as the off-field issues. Can't just think of money here. The club is damaged in every area of the game.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

There isn't a special game plan that wins premierships. It's about building a list capable of playing a brand of footy that can lead to a premiership.

That's why the Cats & Swans continued winning premierships when their coaches left. Right now we need a coach that can build and develop the list, and I believe Mick has more than proven himself to be capable. Don't look for the instant gratification but instead look at the list we are building.

3 years prior to Mick:
Curnow, Casbout, White, Tuohy, Watson, Rowe, Buckley, Bell plus the already delisted Lucas, Davies, Kerr, Cachia, McCarthy, Mitchell, McInnes, Duigan, Bootsma.

3 years since Mick:
Menzel, Docherty, Cripps, Graham, Boekhorst, Jaksch, Whiley, Smith, Sheehan, Byrne, Viojo-Rainbow etc.

That shows to me that we are completely headed in the right direction since Mick has taken over, not just in talent but the type of players that we're seeking and developing. I don't overly care about the senior players anymore, they're not up to it and I'm not worried about patching over their faults for the sake of appeasing inpatient supporters.

It was a bad result today but so too were many of the Giants results over the last few years. Mick inherited a list, but like GWS, largely has needed to build a premiership side from scratch.

I like the names and I like the potential. Tell me how many from each of those lists are performing?

It's not the talent I am worried about, it's what this current team, this confusion, this effort, this lack of direction is doing to their talent that I am concerned about.

 

[Styxx]

We deserve to win the spoon. Forget jokes, we are a disgrace

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So maybe its supporters like you who have supported the stupid choices that have cost our clubs millions and taken us to the bottom of the ladder, that should just [edit]

I had to edit a couple of posts but I have to say that Dramoth was in vehement opposition to the Ratten sacking and Malthouse signing.

 

[Paulski19]

If, according to rumour, we are currently using 100% of our salary cap

Think this is false. There was that article in the paper last week about Eddie Betts, with a source from a "club insider" saying that we could have easily fitted both Eddie and Daisy in the cap. They just didn't want to give Eddie the money he wanted because they thought he had a shyte year and didn't deserve it on that year and previous finals performances.

If you think that we are a laughing stock atm... just wait a couple more weeks and it will get worse!

At least we don't have the same issues as GCS

 

[thylacine60]

So you would wait another 50 or more years if you could for the club to win its 17th premiership?

The supporters are not saying 2-3 years (the club is saying that), but ASAP.

The last time they won a premiership was the year before I was bloody born.

You've had your flag then. Roughly 1 every 18 years is the AFL's ideal.

 

[BlueTongue]

Ratten had a list that included the likes of Lucas, yet he still managed to get us into finals or there abouts.

Under MM, we have gone backwards at an alarming rate, we play extremely boring defensive football that leaks more inside 50s and goals than we did under Ratten, and worse yet, we have no idea of how to move the ball up the field and into the forward line.

The most glaring stat that really struck me today was not the 78-32 inside 50s, or the 40-12 scoring shots, the most glaring stat that struck me was that we finally, finally managed to get our very first score today from a kick in, the first time that has happened after 7 rounds of the year.

Yes unfortunately if you are going to run with a game plan built on defense, you have to have a top rung defense, which we don't.

I have been banging on for years that our defense leaks like a sieve, and that we should play more attacking footy, who cares if we kick endless points, as long as we take the shot and not endlessly look for the non-existent (in this age of footy) 1 on 1.

Eventually we'll start nailing a few, and when we do, we'll have a spread of goal-kickers, like every other modern day team. I don't think Mick is the wrong coach, he just needs to re-think the strategies that died with his tenure at Collingwood.

 

[carlton2dabone]

There isn't a special game plan that wins premierships. It's about building a list capable of playing a brand of footy that can lead to a premiership.

That's why the Cats & Swans continued winning premierships when their coaches left. Right now we need a coach that can build and develop the list, and I believe Mick has more than proven himself to be capable. Don't look for the instant gratification but instead look at the list we are building.

Please tell em you are joking. Have you watched us play the last 7 weeks?

Because all I can see is players not knowing how to move the ball up the ground so they just slam it on the boot or just kick long and high along the boundary, and inevitably lose possession.
All I see is players not understanding the structure or where to position themselves to stop the opposition from waltzing through the corridor and hitting their forwards lace out under no pressure at all.
All I see is players not knowing where their team mate will be positioned to receive a quick get out of jail kick or handball.
All I see is players not having any idea of which way to take the ball into forward 50 so they just bang it on the boot and hope for the best.

All the above things come from having and understanding the right game plan.

 

[feffs93]

I don't think it says that much about them other than GWS were too fast and too skillful for them. Some of their blokes are just ridiculously quick and watching them move the ball was like watching the Harlem Globetrotters vs Bendigo Braves

You may be right.
But my understanding is that tackling is one of the most important aspects of the modern game, more tackles means a greater intent to win the contests, enforce themselves on the game, and take the game on.
The lack of tackles tell me that our boys just dont want to be held accountable, they lack intensity, lack courage.

 

[thylacine60]

Just to cheer everyone up any chance T. Mitchell had of coming south seems to be disappearing with every game. Another 3 goals tonight in a great performance against Geelong.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

You've had your flag then. Roughly 1 every 18 years is the AFL's ideal.

I suppose. Do feel sorry for Saints and Bulldogs though. But they had their chance here and there. Didn't take them.

 

[Paulski19]

Just to cheer everyone up any chance T. Mitchell had of coming south seems to be disappearing with every game. Another 3 goals tonight in a great performance against Geelong.

Not for less than a million or so. He didn't want to come last year when we looked like we might've had some upside, so he has stuff all chance of wanting to come now....

 

[Moral Decay]

Apologies in advance.
Take it one step at a time.
Malthouse has lost the players, it doesn't matter why or how, it won't get better by leaving him in charge.
Get rid of him; or strip him of all power other than match day coach, he'll be so pissed off he'll quit.

It's never as good or as bad as it seems.

 

[passmark]

Get over yourself. You're as useless as any other blamer. We get it. Sticks hung about cause his devotion to the club swayed his belief in his own skills. What's your next move? This place needs more moaning whatifers like it needs another trip to Arizona.

You whinge about players and tactics as much as anyone on here Thy.

Why is the admin and Kernahan exempt?

He was ****ing useless in the job, a good bloke the rich incompetents used to get what they wanted. The club in their hands and ****ed.

The club is circling the bowl and people want to ignore the fact that these campaigners are still in charge.

 

[thylacine60]

You whinge about players and tactics as much as anyone on here Thy.

Why is the admin and Kernahan exempt?

He was ******* useless in the job, a good bloke the rich incompetents used to get what they wanted. The club in their hands and stuffed.

The club is circling the bowl and people want to ignore the fact that these campaigners are still in charge.

Hardly.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Just to cheer everyone up any chance T. Mitchell had of coming south seems to be disappearing with every game. Another 3 goals tonight in a great performance against Geelong.

He'd be wasted at Carlton. He's a quality one paced player, like Cripps, but if he is played with 6 other one paced players, nobody will be there to capitalise on his work.

 

[passmark]

No... Sticks in 95 was the low man on the totem pole. In 2002, him and Bear were both in the Elliott and Mathieson camps... in 2006 when Pratt came back to the club, Sticks joined his camp.

However... both Sticks and Bear were not the only members of each camp on the board. A couple of years ago, someone did a split of the board based on alliances and it was basically 6 on either side.

The club has always been a sucker for rich benefactors. Afterall, the club has had two influential Prime Ministers as supporters over the years and most of the benefactors would have loved hobnobbing with them when they would attend the games.

Sticks by the end was virtually helpless to do anything meaningful at the club because of the numbers on either camp.

Helpless?, he's supposed to be a leader.

He was complicit.

 

[BlueBelle]

I havent seen the game yet, is there anything to be gained from watching it?

Depends. Have you got a punching bag? You'd definitely improve your punching skills

 

[thylacine60]

Read the Cats Board, you'd think the smug pricks hadn't won 3 flags over the past 8 or 9 years. "Retire Johnson" seems a particularly ungrateful call.

 

[Cipher]

It's not the talent I am worried about, it's what this current team, this confusion, this effort, this lack of direction is doing to their talent that I am concerned about.

Yet despite us playing finals under Ratten, those recruited didn't develop. Likewise the beltings that GWS have copped the last few years hasn't seemed to have effected their development.

I guess we disagree in that the current team is lacking direction. I think Mick clearly has it, but we will need to rely on the young guys to fulfill it, and that is going to take time.

 

[andrew_]

Just to cheer everyone up any chance T. Mitchell had of coming south seems to be disappearing with every game. Another 3 goals tonight in a great performance against Geelong.

33 disposals at 70% efficiency, 3 goals 7 inside 50s and 5 clearances, they ain't gonna let him go any time soon.