Autopsy Rd 7 vs North. Terrible loss, poor skills, never in it.

[Arr0w]

When do their contracts expire?

At the end of this year

 

[HBF]

We will want TDK playing at least 50% of the games next year so I don't see a great need to chase another ruck

Big ask for someone coming into their 3rd year in 2020.

 

[HBF]

How many picks has SOS nailed outside of first rounders? This is where you build your depth and so far it's been a big fail.

Fisher for one.
How about his own son?

 

[Macca43]

Big ask for someone coming into their 3rd year in 2020.

Not reallyGrundy played 15 games in his second year and 19 in his third, NicNat played 10 in his first, 22 in his second and 23 in his third, Gawn played 13 in his 3rd and Kreuzer played 20 in his first, 23 in his second and 13 in his third.

 

[Macca43]

Disagree

If you say so.

 

[Macca43]

Fisher for one.
How about his own son?

TDK and Williamson I would suggest as well.

But how many later picks have we actually had, we have generally traded them for players of first round picks.

 

[Soapy V]

Fisher for one.
How about his own son?

Williamson Cuningham Gibbons TDK Schumacher Kerr Polson Macreadie and it’s not just about picks it the ability to trade with value.

Setterfield McGovern Newman Kennedy Marchbank Stocker have been good trades.

SOS has got value for trades in Henderson Tuohy Menzel Gibbs Yarran that has got us multiple picks with many being first rounders that people say he’s nailed

Lots of aspects of LM that people seem to forget

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I think it’s a major need. Kruezer is awesome but is a 15 game player. Phillips is okay at best and Lobbe is done.

TDK is as much a forward as a Ruck.

If we can pick up a young Ruck and a Ruck ready to go from another club or state league that would be ideal

Yep, it's critical Soap.

Looking at our list profile, it looks as if we drafted TDK predominantly as a ruck who can go forward, given we drafted H and Charles, then Gov, as our key forwards.

The issue we have is that our 'other' two ruckmen are currently very much second rate or coming toward the end of their career, and not sure about Krooz' longevity in the game. Which leaves TDK one out going forward....and if he cops an injury we'd have no-one, except another plodder we may have recruited from the lower grades.

That's why a player like a Lynch would be absolute gold. Will be 21 by next season, and can be developed alongside TDK, while we still have Krooz on our books.

Again, it's about building a list that will come through together as a group, not just plugging holes.

 

[Mr_Plow]

There are only a small handful of quality rucks in Australia. They are rare, rarer than quality KPFs.

 

[Macca43]

Yep, it's critical Soap.

Looking at our list profile, it looks as if we drafted TDK predominantly as a ruck who can go forward, given we drafted H and Charles, then Gov, as our key forwards.

The issue we have is that our 'other' two ruckmen are currently very much second rate or coming toward the end of their career, and not sure about Krooz' longevity in the game. Which leaves TDK one out going forward....and if he cops an injury we'd have no-one, except another plodder we may have recruited from the lower grades.

That's why a player like a Lynch would be absolute gold. Will be 21 by next season, and can be developed alongside TDK, while we still have Krooz on our books.

Again, it's about building a list that will come through together as a group, not just plugging holes.

Lynch?

 

[Funk]

How many of the GWS players we recruited have been a success? Plowman the only regular says it all really.

Yep - should have kept Troy Menzel.

He’s killing it in the SANFL thirds. We really miss him.

 

[passmark]

So this is where we are.
On one hand we announce ourselves as a likely winner against North and when things don't pan out, we find the usual excuses coming to the fore.
One can't simply find excuses without coming to a conclusion as to where we are and why?

None of us have all the answers, but it may be somewhat remiss to ask the questions.
If we haven't this magical 24 - 28 year bracketed players, then why not? Did we really need O'Dwyer, Goddard, Owies, Cottrell when more senior players were available....well, they were because we're now sweating on a mid-season draft to try and fix things.

No team gets everything right, but we needed to get more right than for what we have got wrong and yes, even via rookie drafts which we've seemingly not taken too much of an active interest in, in recent years.....and it's not all about personnel, as attitude, playing for the jumper and ones own credibility comes into account.

Of course we'll get better, but have we the 'cultural' propensity to also get worse? I don't know.
Every time it seems we're heading in one direction, we seem to waver off into another. Testing time to come.

True enough.

The current list management team appears to have a weakness in identifying solid second tier and spec picks with late list and rookie spots.

TBH last year it looked like they couldn’t be arsed.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yep - should have kept Troy Menzel.

He’s killing it in the SANFL thirds. We really miss him.

nil nil draw?

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Williamson Cuningham Gibbons TDK Schumacher Kerr Polson Macreadie and it’s not just about picks it the ability to trade with value.

Setterfield McGovern Newman Kennedy Marchbank Stocker have been good trades.

SOS has got value for trades in Henderson Tuohy Menzel Gibbs Yarran that has got us multiple picks with many being first rounders that people say he’s nailed

Lots of aspects of LM that people seem to forget

if they were good trades it would be translating on the field

but what makes you think stocker is a good trade?
is it a hunch you have?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Lynch?

Max Lynch, rookie ruckman from the Pies...it's been discussed at length on another thread, but those of us who attended the NB vs Pies game a few weeks back saw an impressive young ruckman who tore AP and Lobbe a new one single handedly.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2019-list-management-discussion.1209253/post-60477447

 

[Funk]

Doubt there is one poster on this board who doesn't crave that your last sentence comes to fruition. If it doesn't then (as unpopular as it is with many) there should be every bit the heat on list managers as there will inevitably be on the coach.

How I would do it doesn't matter as I readily admit that I have no idea.

What I do know, though, is that after the 2015 draft/trade period we had 17 players on our list between 23 and 27 and we were high fiving the fact that we had not gone "all Melbourne" with our rebuild and kept a core of senior bodies to help the kids develop.

Now we have 10 which is why I believe that our age balance is out of kilter and should be the highest priority we have.

The other issue for me is that many agree that our most important player other than Cripps is Kreuzer who is seriously injury prone. TDK aside (project ruckman) the other 2 that we've added in that time are simply not up to it. If Kreuz is forced to retire next year we are in very deep doo doo.

Still, IMO, an awful lot to do with this list.

Very easy to criticise - much harder to specifically explain practical achievable alternatives.

IMHO Silvagni inherited a shit sandwich and has done a great job in the circumstances.

As MEB_ noted we used to choose well in rookie drafts and completely screw up regular draft. We’ve had plenty of misses with rookies - other clubs have found some gems. Was hoping Agresta would bring some IP in this area - other than Gibbons I’m yet to see evidence of improvement.

 

[Soapy V]

if they were good trades it would be translating on the field

but what makes you think stocker is a good trade?
is it a hunch you have?

We don’t know yet. That’s what stupid about the criticism of our recruiting. Right or Wrong it’s way too early

Also people focus in one issue not the entire LM scenario

Personally though I think SOS has done and incredible job and in 12 months most will see why

 

[Macca43]

Max Lynch, rookie ruckman from the Pies...it's been discussed at length on another thread, but those of us who attended the NB vs Pies game a few weeks back saw an impressive young ruckman who tore AP and Lobbe a new one single handedly.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2019-list-management-discussion.1209253/post-60477447

Sounds worth a go.

I would be happier to go with a 21 year old over a 27 year old hack

 

[thylacine60]

those pesky vaginas

forget that shit - get me into the cheesecake club - stat!

 

[Soapy V]

Max Lynch, rookie ruckman from the Pies...it's been discussed at length on another thread, but those of us who attended the NB vs Pies game a few weeks back saw an impressive young ruckman who tore AP and Lobbe a new one single handedly.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2019-list-management-discussion.1209253/post-60477447

There is a fair few around at the moment looking for a chance. Lynch Cameron Smith Darcy Pittonet Naismith Abbott Flynn and more all at AFL clubs and there are a number at State League level. Confident we will get at least one

 

[thylacine60]

How many of the GWS players we recruited have been a success? Plowman the only regular says it all really.

Don't know the ins and outs of it but someone who could give a **** might tell you how many of those gws soldiers were taken for reasons other than first 18

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Sounds worth a go.

I would be happier to go with a 21 year old over a 27 year old hack

We're probably getting a little off track for this thread, but from what I saw that day, I'd love him on our list...he'll only be 2nd fiddle behind Grundy at the Pies, so he'd definitely be worth the risk, and being a rookie wouldn't cost a lot. We could even pick him up as a dfa if he remains uncontracted at the end of the season.
SOS was at the game, and Brodie as well I believe, so they would have seen what we all saw. I know it's only one game, but was bloody impressive.

 

[Macca43]

There is a fair few around at the moment looking for a chance. Lynch Cameron Smith Darcy Pitttonet Naismith Abbott Flynn and more all at AFL clubs and there are a number at State League level. Confident we will get at least one

At least a few of those names seem not up to it

 

[Soapy V]

At least a few of those names seem not up to it

How do you know until given a crack? All still young for Rucks

 

[Funk]

if they were good trades it would be translating on the field

but what makes you think stocker is a good trade?
is it a hunch you have?

I’ve posted this previously - reposting because IMO you’re being a little harsh when judging our trades.

In 2015 while we still had all these “guns” that we traded we actually finished bottom of the ladder with 4 wins and percentage of 64.78%.

“FWIW below is the status and age of “guns” we traded out.

Betts FA (worst year statistically in last 14 years) and on the serious downhill slide - 31
Henderson - played only 7 games last year and currently out injured with plantar fascia - 29
Tuohy - knee - nearly 29
Yarran - retired
Menzel - delisted
Bell - delisted
Gibbs - DROPPED - 30 (haven’t been to the Crows board yet - but the melts from Crows that posted how unhappy Gibbs was at Carlton and how he would be the icing on their beautiful cake must be delicious )

I don’t have time to list what we got in return but in 2 years time we’ll be thanking our lucky stars SOS had the balls to do what needed to be done.

I think the short list would be:
Charlie
Harry
Cuningham
Plowman
Philips
LOB
TDK

Edit - plus Marchbank/Lang/Pickett/Kennedy.


PS - very difficult to summarise this precisely as many trades had multiple moving parts.”

We’re still down the bottom- but with way more light at the end of tunnel than 4 years ago.