Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[mcnulty]

I simply corrected your statement that there was a RC into the Catholic Church response to child sexual abuse, pointing out (even providing a link) that it was far more wide ranging than that.

So they did go after the Church. They also included others.

Next up, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I’m all ears.

 

[Toump Ass]

Ok I’ll bite.

Are there higher instances of child sexual abuse in some indigenous communities than elsewhere? If so, look at it.

And while we’re at it, burn the Catholic Church down, or at least remove their tax exempt status. They’re campaigners.

 

[Chief]

Oh come off it mate. The whole thing was driven by allegations made against the Church. And the CC were the focus of much of the inquiry.

And rightly so.

What of the children's homes issues that were reported on? Foster care system? Unfortunately the Catholic Church has been given such wide authority and responsibility for schools and other institutions for children, they were pretty high on the list of culprits.

Now, the aboriginal groups that have had a say have said no, an RC is pointless given the number of reports:

Australians told ‘do not travel’ to Lebanon – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

There have been more than 33 reports into child protection since the Bringing Them Home report in 1997.

SNAICC produces an annual report, Family Matters, and has done for many years which details the evidence-based solutions that will enable our children to grow up safe, loved and protected. These solutions have been developed by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and organisations.

They prioritise investment in effective, culturally safe supports for families and children before they reach crisis point, through Aboriginal community-controlled services.

The most effective and immediate action government can take to make children safe and protect their human rights is to stand up a national Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children’s commissioner, with the legislated power to investigate and make recommendations on issues impacting our children.

This will be more effective and more powerful than any royal commission.

I would say listen to the broad range of communities and work on the solutions recommended in their reports before wasting millions of dollars on a Royal Commission.

You know, the way people talk it's like there is nothing being done right now. Scouting around, Googling, listening to some lefty podcasts and YouTube channels, it looks like there is a lot of work being done already to identify if and where this is a problem and what solutions can be tried or more widely established.

After all the talk of waste on a referendum, why waste even more money on KCs?

 

[mcnulty]

What of the children's homes issues that were reported on? Foster care system?

Now, the aboriginal groups that have had a say have said no, an RC is pointless given the number of reports:

Australians told ‘do not travel’ to Lebanon – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

I would say listen to the broad range of communities and work on the solutions recommended in their reports before wasting millions of dollars on a Royal Commission.

You know, the way people talk it's like there is nothing being done right now. Scouting around, Googling, listening to some lefty podcasts and YouTube channels, it looks like there is a lot of work being done already to identify if and where this is a problem and what solutions can be tried or more widely established.

After all the talk of waste on a referendum, why waste even more money on KCs?

Another who can’t follow a thread. I’ve explicitly said I’m not necessarily supporting an RC here. Simply pointing out that other groups who’ve been targeted for investigation.

It’s really not that difficult

 

[Festerz]

Not sure what’s so funny 1990crow. There was a Royal Commission into the Catholic Churches response to child sexual abuse. Perhaps you missed it?

Wrong. Follow the links provided by sherb to the Royal Commission Report into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse and you will see you have totally misinterpreted the context and scope of the Royal Commission - which is critical to understanding what the RC findings relate to.

It was not just an Inquiry into 'Catholic Churches' or 'churches' in general.

Stop lecturing others when its clear you have nfi what you are talking about.

So they did go after the Church. They also included others.

Next up, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I’m all ears.

Give it a rest. No point getting upset when others are just pointing out your basic lack of understanding of context.

Do some reading FFS. Start here:

Understanding child sexual abuse in institutional contexts​

Nature and cause | Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au

 

[Chief]

Another who can’t follow a thread. I’ve explicitly said I’m not necessarily supporting an RC here. Simply pointing out that other groups who’ve been targeted for investigation.

It’s really not that difficult

And it was pointed out that they weren't the only institution investigated. Given their prominence in all sorts of bodies dealing with children, and their secretive and ineffective responses (and cover ups), it might have seemed that way to some people with an interest in the church.

It's really not that difficult.

 

[Chief]

“Politicising” much better lol.

Turning it into a political weapon that harms people = weaponising.

 

[Roby]

So they are wrong for respecting the majority are they???

80% of the Israel state support the war and Genocide in Gaza. This is correct? What about that happened in Germany too in WW2, a mass majority agreed to that, was that correct too? Everyone in North Korea, would be happy to level Western countries with nukes, they're all on the right side of history as well?

 

[mcnulty]

And it was pointed out that they weren't the only institution investigated. Given their prominence in all sorts of bodies dealing with children, and their secretive and ineffective responses (and cover ups), it might have seemed that way to some people with an interest in the church.

It's really not that difficult.

This is priceless. The Catholic Church wasn’t a target of the inquiry because others also were.

Have I got that right?

 

[Chief]

This is priceless. The Catholic Church wasn’t a target of the inquiry because others also were.

Have I got that right?

No you said the Catholic Church was THE target of the inquiry. To the exclusion of all others.

Are you now retracting that claim?

 

[Festerz]

The most recent Child Protection Australia data release, by the AIHW, shows that Indigenous children were less likely to be the subject of a substantiated notification of child sexual abuse in 2021-22 (6.8% of substantiations) than were non-Indigenous children (9 per cent of substantiations)

Child protection Australia 2021–22, About

Child protection Australia 2021@22 consists of an initial report followed by 3@updates, each focussing on a specific area of interest in child protection systems.6 June 2023: The initial report...

www.aihw.gov.au

It is quite clear why Dutton has NOW decided to again go after Indigenous Communities, demanding a Royal Commission into child abuse in Indigenous communities - and it has NOTHING to do with evidence.

And this is the person who demanded people vote NO to the Referendum because it would divide Australia on the basis of race.

A disgusting human being.

 

[cartwright]

I agree. We should do away with the Australian flag that's mostly a British flag and come up with something new that represents all Australian people. Then there's no need to fly different flags.

Well argued Tony.

Agree. Get a flag that represents Australia.

 

[Chief]

The most recent Child Protection Australia data release, by the AIHW, shows that Indigenous children were less likely to be the subject of a substantiated notification of child sexual abuse in 2021-22 (6.8% of substantiations) than were non-Indigenous children (9 per cent of substantiations)

Child protection Australia 2021–22, About

Child protection Australia 2021@22 consists of an initial report followed by 3@updates, each focussing on a specific area of interest in child protection systems.6 June 2023: The initial report...

www.aihw.gov.au

So an RC into NON-indigenous communities is in order?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

This is priceless. The Catholic Church wasn’t a target of the inquiry because others also were.

Have I got that right?

Catholic Church just happened to be one of the worst offenders, covering it up and doing everything possible to avoid compensation payouts.

The Royal Commission showed evidence that Pell specifically knew, and just moved his mates around to different areas as they got caught. Dutton and Abbott then went to his funeral and sung his praise.

So not only are Dutton and Abbott both clearly racists, they also turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse that Pell perpetuated.

 

[1990crow]

80% of the Israel state support the war and Genocide in Gaza. This is correct? What about that happened in Germany too in WW2, a mass majority agreed to that, was that correct too? Everyone in North Korea, would be happy to level Western countries with nukes, they're all on the right side of history as well?

And let's not forget Murdoch and his cronies are basically Goebbels + Gestapo.

 

[mcnulty]

No you said the Catholic Church was THE target of the inquiry. To the exclusion of all others.

Are you now retracting that claim?

No you said the Catholic Church was THE target of the inquiry. To the exclusion of all others.

Are you now retracting that claim?

Aww Chiefy… if conjunctions mean THAT much to you I’m happy to settle on an ‘a’.

The fact that it makes absolutely no difference to my original post notwithstanding.

 

[cartwright]

Catholic Church just happened to be the worst offenders, covering it up and doing everything possible to avoid compensation payouts.

The Royal Commission showed evidence that Pell specifically knew, and just moved his mates around to different areas as they got caught. Dutton and Abbott then went to his funeral.

So not only are Dutton and Abbott both clearly racists, they also turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse that Pell perpetuated.

They went to the campaigners funeral.

 

[mcnulty]

Catholic Church just happened to be one of the worst offenders, covering it up and doing everything possible to avoid compensation payouts.

The Royal Commission showed evidence that Pell specifically knew, and just moved his mates around to different areas as they got caught. Dutton and Abbott then went to his funeral and sung his praise.

So not only are Dutton and Abbott both clearly racists, they also turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse that Pell perpetuated.

On all of that I agree.

 

[Chief]

Aww Chiefy… if conjunctions mean THAT much to you I’m happy to settle on an ‘a’.

The fact that it makes absolutely no difference to my original post notwithstanding.

When your error was pointed out you argued about it.

Let's try it:

"mcnulty you are the shitty RWNJ we all feel sorry for."

"mcnulty you are a shitty RWNJ we all feel sorry for."

It seems to make a difference.

 

[faible]

They did go after the Church

You mean the Royal Commission setup under the Gillard Labor Government?

I'd love to see where Dutton and the LNP have 'gone after' the Church.

 

[faible]

Didn’t Gillard already (rightfully) do that?

She sure did. Meanwhile the LNP were busy attending Pell's funeral.

 

[mcnulty]

When your error was pointed out you argued about it.

Let's try it:

"mcnulty you are the shitty RWNJ we all feel sorry for."

"mcnulty you are a shitty RWNJ we all feel sorry for."

It seems to make a difference.

Personal abuse now, splendid example. Toys back in the cot now chief? Need a cooookie?

 

[Vindicater]

I would like to see the stats please. Obviously it happens everywhere, but I take it that your stats show that there is no unique or especially bad problem in indigenous communities with child sexual abuse.

See post above.

Child protection Australia 2021–22, About

Child protection Australia 2021@22 consists of an initial report followed by 3@updates, each focussing on a specific area of interest in child protection systems.6 June 2023: The initial report...

www.aihw.gov.au

 

[Chief]

Personal abuse now, splendid example. Toys back in the cot now chief? Need a cooookie?

It was just a totally random example to demonstrate how you were wrong. No offence was intended.

 

[mcnulty]

I'd love to see where Dutton and the LNP have 'gone after' the Church.

They don’t need to, Gillard already did. Others including the Church have already been targeted.