Autopsy Round 1, 2021 = Pies 53-69 Dogs

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Ruscoe, Browns, Thomas, Sier, Henry, these guys are nowhere near it.

It really concerns me guys like Henry and Ruscoe are getting games, they are just not AFL standard at the moment.

Long year ahead, glad we will get Nick Daicos at the end of it.

Sad way for Bucks to finish, but for us to be so far out of whack with salary cap and have that much less talent and depth is the worst management I can remember. Grundy must be feeling rapt with his coin, cost us 6 more years of mediocrity.

 

[Collingwoodcrew]

Started to watch Buck’s presser. He seemed almost embarrassed that he had to go the scripted lines. He is done!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[nahnah]

Because of the slow lazy midfield, the non existent forward line and the $7 million ruckman that gets out marked by a guy that looks like he'd still get bullied at school you're left with a backline that has to do everything week in week out for 3 years running

 

[Silky23]

Anecdotal, but Cox doesn’t seem to have the same disconnect with the midfield that Grundy does, which is ludicrous when only one of the two is the full timer in the ruck.

That to me indicates that for all of our midfield’s structural flaws, it’s not them alone to be held accountable for how absolutely deplorable we are at converting Grundy hitout wins to meaningful advantage. Brodie definitely has to shoulder a lot of that blame.

Not a hard gig for Cox when he’s playing in the ruck against a fellow part timer and he’s got 10-15cm’s on them. Not often will you see Cox in the ruck going up against the opposition’s number 1 option.

 

[Good_Old]

This is where I find some comments on this forum bewildering.
Is Brodie meant to have eyes all around his head telling him where to hit the ball precisely, and is he then meant to jump into the legs of his teammates to saddle into the position they’re required to be in? You do realise Grundy can only have eyes for the ball when it’s bounced at a CB or thrown in from a throw in? LOL
It’s purely our inability as a midfield to read where the ball is coming off his palm. That’s a skill in itself and the only guy it comes natural to in our whole team is Taylor Adams. Apart from that we may have accumulators and guys who try hard but none are naturally gifted at it. Watch Fyfe, or Cripps. They are fantastic and they know exactly where the ball is going at all times. To say Grundy is at fault for hitting it to ‘nobody’ is just ridiculous lmao

I've played with dominant ruckmen before. Conversation about how the opposition are setting up and where we want/ where they're finding it easiest to tap to was always a good starting point.
Not to mention the connection between players fostered from playing alongside them week in, week out. The entire group needs to improve.

 

[Good_Old]

Spin it whichever way you want, that contract is atrocious.

 

[Silky23]

I know this is super forward planning but we have to do everything in our power to get Zach Merrett otherwise we are just going around in circles again and again and again. I would love us to get a guy like Libba too, just a one touch clearance mid who puts others in amazing position.

 

[No SPIN]

you didnt answer the question... You have said unequivocally that Buckley will be coaching this year for his job and not for the football club and it's future chances of a flag. So given that... do you want him to remain as coach for the year? If what you say is true, would a prudent board keep him in the job this year?

You and others have decided Buckley needs to just play the kids - or in other words put development ahead of winning. I’ve simply explained that is completely unrealistic and I suspect the board and the club would not be giving up the season ( putting development ahead of winning) after round 1, as you are doing.
Next you’ll be suggesting we should be tanking for picks - which is what ruined Melb and Carltons culture for a decade.
I’m not keen to see my club go down that path.

 

[Silky23]

I've played with dominant ruckmen before. Conversation about how the opposition are setting up and where we want/ where they're finding it easiest to tap to was always a good starting point.
Not to mention the connection between players fostered from playing alongside them week in, week out. The entire group needs to improve.

See I think that’s our issue. We act as if Grundy is a dominant ruck, he’s no NN who can manipulate and act as if the ball is talking. What made Grundy great is his ability as another midfielder. Most of that is on him but we are not making it easy for him to win easy ball either, we are constantly playing football from our back half which doesn’t make it easy for a ruck to play to his strengths. The other thing I will add is we have not had very good consistency in the midfield group, we have had players come and go like a brothel. The only stalwarts have been Adams and Pendles and that’s why everyone else looks lost in there.

 

[loki04]

This is where I find some comments on this forum bewildering.
Is Brodie meant to have eyes all around his head telling him where to hit the ball precisely, and is he then meant to jump into the legs of his teammates to saddle into the position they’re required to be in? You do realise Grundy can only have eyes for the ball when it’s bounced at a CB or thrown in from a throw in? LOL
It’s purely our inability as a midfield to read where the ball is coming off his palm. That’s a skill in itself and the only guy it comes natural to in our whole team is Taylor Adams. Apart from that we may have accumulators and guys who try hard but none are naturally gifted at it. Watch Fyfe, or Cripps. They are fantastic and they know exactly where the ball is going at all times. To say Grundy is at fault for hitting it to ‘nobody’ is just ridiculous lmao

For example.
He can tell one moving at pace from behind him at 5 o'cklock to go to 2 to 3 ocklock in space and palm it over the dogs player or straight down his running players throat if clear win.

Have another player at 7 o'clock coming in tighter.
Have one at his 12 o'clock covering opp and deadpan/ out back loss.

You can keep your eyes on it and through peripheral as your running in get a slight gauge on positions. If you get s good ride off the opposition ruck with your knee you can even get s sec to look just before palming down and change up your angles.

 

[Kappa]

I know this is super forward planning but we have to do everything in our power to get Zach Merrett otherwise we are just going around in circles again and again and again. I would love us to get a guy like Libba too, just a one touch clearance mid who puts others in amazing position.

We are at the start of a 3-4 year rebuild, Merett will be 26 this year... Not the answer we're looking for.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You understand context and abuse right?

SRP board that way>

 

[Carringbush2010]

You didn't see Rape of Nanjing either but can still conclude it wasn't much fun.

SRP board that way>

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

The defence is the only reason why we didn't lose by 10 goals tonight. Moore was outstanding and a shining light for the team.

A lot of criticism towards Grundy, but the lack of connection between him and the midfielders is startling. It's a problem that was raised years ago and still hasn't been addressed.

Couldn't believe how often we were second to the ball. Dogs always had players ready when the ball hit the ground and seemed to win a lot more contested possessions than we did. Just saw the stats now, and the Dogs had 150 more disposals, which just about sums it up.

Cox and Mihocek looked okay up forward, but I just wonder where our other avenues to goal will come from. Ruscoe doesn't look ready for senior AFL football and Elliott's nearly at the end of his career now.

Henry looked overwhelmed, but at least the kid got a taste of senior football and will learn from the experience.

Being at the ground, a lot of supporters seemed to concede that it would be a "long year". No anger or maliciousness in their tone, they're just accepting of where we sit in the competition. I sense a lot of people have given up on Buckley now and will just ride it out with him for the rest of the year.

On a more positive note, it was great to be back at the football after 18 months. Didn't realise how much I've missed it.

 

[Silky23]

For example.
He can tell one moving at pace from behind him at 5 o'cklock to go to 2 to 3 ocklock in space and palm it over the dogs player or straight down his running players throat if clear win.

Have another player at 7 o'clock coming in tighter.
Have one at his 12 o'clock covering opp and deadpan/ out back loss.

You can keep your eyes on it and through peripheral as your running in get a slight gauge on positions. If you get s good ride off the opposition ruck with your knee you can even get s sec to look just before palming down and change up your angles.

Mate I’m sure they have all these set plays they run but none of it is working! We don’t play to Grundy’s strengths, we seem to just be waiting on our feet and instead of being proactive our mids are alwaysssss reactive. I agree with the first part about positioning but no chance you get a second to look before palming.

The defence is the only reason why we didn't lose by 10 goals tonight. Moore was outstanding and a shining light for the team.

A lot of criticism towards Grundy, but the lack of connection between him and the midfielders is startling. It's a problem that was raised years ago and still hasn't been addressed.

Couldn't believe how often we were second to the ball. Dogs always had players ready when the ball hit the ground and seemed to win a lot more contested possessions than we did. Just saw the stats now, and the Dogs had 150 more disposals, which just about sums it up.

Cox and Mihocek looked okay up forward, but I just wonder where our other avenues to goal will come from. Ruscoe doesn't look ready for senior AFL football and Elliott's nearly at the end of his career now.

Henry looked overwhelmed, but at least the kid got a taste of senior football and will learn from the experience.

Being at the ground, a lot of supporters seemed to concede that it would be a "long year". No anger or maliciousness in their tone, they're just accepting of where we sit in the competition. I sense a lot of people have given up on Buckley now and will just ride it out with him for the rest of the year.

On a more positive note, it was great to be back at the football after 18 months. Didn't realise how much I've missed it.

Spot on mate, exactly what I’m trying to say. If we had the Dogs midfield which runs 6/7 deep instead of a two man army feeding off Grundy tonight we would’ve won by 10 goals!

 

[loki04]

You and others have decided Buckley needs to just play the kids - or in other words put development ahead of winning. I’ve simply explained that is completely unrealistic and I suspect the board and the club would not be giving up the season ( putting development ahead of winning) after round 1, as you are doing.
Next you’ll be suggesting we should be tanking for picks - which is what ruined Melb and Carltons culture for a decade.
I’m not keen to see my club go down that path.

Mate Melbourne and Carlton put a 3 to 4 year plan in place to systematically lose and bottom out to try mass gain low end picks. Carlton got some taken off them which really hurt their rebuild.

Melbourne took it a step further and had a complete fire sale and retirement of nearly all senior talent.

These are not representative or realistic when people are looking to dip for a solitary year or maybe 2 not tank perse but manage.
Which is more inline with our 2004 and 05 tank year and Hawks Saints double tank years. They kept senior players but played enough kids to drop for a bit

1 year doesn't ruin anything and there are ZERO examples to show it does but there are 3 examples at least Hawks, Pies and Saints who have shown the benefits of 1 to 2 years of senior player management and youth experimentation (if they win they win club doesn't mandated to lose and prepares every player picked and game to win).

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Tonight
HO’s +27
Clearances -6
CP’s -25

2020 SF
HO’s +18
Clearances -13
CP’s -22

2019 PF
HO’s +62
Clearances -19
CP’s -16

2018 GF
HO’s +28
Clearances +5
CP’s +3

It’s a recurrent theme, I know I’ve hand picked these games but these are the most important 3 games we’ve played in each of the last 3 seasons and given the absolute HO dominance and ascendancy we’ve had look at the Clearance and CP’s numbers we bring up too. If Adams isn’t winning us a clearances, who the fu** is? We legit have nobody. It’s pathetic. We always blame our forwards, but honestly, if we can’t win it at the coal face and give our forwards a chance 1 on 1 then what’s the point in complaining when we pump it in there when teams have had time to flood back and help with numbers. Grundy was colossus in 2018/19 so I’m honestly asking you, yes he has a role to play but to constantly flag him as the million dollar issue is bullshit. Why not start having a crack at our midfield group as a whole. I cannot remember the last time we played a top team and won that wasn’t because of our defence. Our mids are reactive and soft as butter, they always play outside to their opponent and expect Grundy to hit it over the top. He hasn’t done that in years and he’s no NN so why do they continue to do it?

During the 3rd Grundy had an uncontested tap and gave it straight to the Bont who was 2 metres infront of him lol.

Better off telling him to smash the ball our way as hard as he can.

 

[Starcevich90]

Lol imagine thinking you’re the hero here.

What do you mean?

 

[regpies]

Knowing Buckley, wouldn’t put it past him to say to our mids to play it safe and not be expansive on hit zones as he doesn’t want us opened defensively if we were to lose a stoppage like that, hence the ball is constantly in the phone box area. Problem with that is unless Adams is at the coal face distributing out we are in trouble because we are second to the footy and we aren’t smart enough or talented enough around the ball to work out where it’s going next.

2-3yrs ago Grundy would tap it in close no more than 1-2m from him, our midfield would stay still and block while he follows up and takes the clearance.

He still does do the close in tap, but I guess now with his 7mil locked in he couldn’t be bothered following up with the clearance.

 

[No SPIN]

Mate Melbourne and Carlton put a 3 to 4 year plan in place to systematically lose and bottom out to try mass gain low end picks. Carlton got some taken off them which really hurt their rebuild.

Melbourne took it a step further and had a complete fire sale and retirement of nearly all senior talent.

These are not representative or realistic when people are looking to dip for a solitary year or maybe 2 not tank perse but manage.
Which is more inline with our 2004 and 05 tank year and Hawks Saints double tank years. They kept senior players but played enough kids to drop for a bit

1 year doesn't ruin anything and there are ZERO examples to show it does but there are 3 examples at least Hawks, Pies and Saints who have shown the benefits of 1 to 2 years of senior player management and youth experimentation (if they win they win club doesn't mandated to lose and prepares every player picked and game to win).

I think you need to go back and read the thread for context - bottom line is Coaches in their last year of contract focus on self preservation which means they are risk averse.
That’s were the debate started - my last post needs to be viewed in that context.

 

[loki04]

Mate I’m sure they have all these set plays they run but none of it is working! We don’t play to Grundy’s strengths, we seem to just be waiting on our feet and instead of being proactive our mids are alwaysssss reactive. I agree with the first part about positioning but no chance you get a second to look before palming.



Spot on mate, exactly what I’m trying to say. If we had the Dogs midfield which runs 6/7 deep instead of a two man army feeding off Grundy tonight we would’ve won by 10 goals!

If you get a clean well timed run, jump a good knee in their chest and ride you can get a split second up there.
I know because I have done it many of times as a undersized ruck with a big leap who often got clean palms to mids streaming past.

Yes yes its afl but principles the same and he gets enough clean jumps per game to make it work.

 

[Starcevich90]

I also don't understand how calling Q harry O is racist. Sounds more like a compliment

If you can't see what's racist about that it's not worth explaining to you.

 

[loki04]

I think you need to go back and read the thread for context - bottom line is Coaches in their last years of contract focus on self preservation which means they are risk averse.
That’s were the debate started - my last post needs to be viewed in that context.

I think by doing that he is losing alot of the support from the fan base he had left.
People will turn away if we keep playing uber defensive no flair and non scoring brand of footy.

A few losses and due to game style he has employed the knives will well and truly be out with little resistance.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

You and others have decided Buckley needs to just play the kids - or in other words put development ahead of winning. I’ve simply explained that is completely unrealistic and I suspect the board and the club would not be giving up the season ( putting development ahead of winning) after round 1, as you are doing.
Next you’ll be suggesting we should be tanking for picks - which is what ruined Melb and Carltons culture for a decade.
I’m not keen to see my club go down that path.

You are the one to have decided that Buckley will coach this year for himself and not for the club. You argued that this is normal and therefore acceptable. I disagree that it is acceptable or a given that Buckley will do this. You know nobody tanks anymore. But you also know that one of the KEY responsibilities of a coach is to build a team and a list with an eye to the future.. for the prospect of a flag.. not to sacrifice list development for scraping together as many wins as possible to no purpose. If you think that that is Buckleys best chance of saving his job... I'd say you're mistaken. Who do you think will be satisfied with or fooled by that? (ok... actually ... maybe our board would be now I think of it)

He needs to be courageous this year.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You and others have decided Buckley needs to just play the kids - or in other words put development ahead of winning. I’ve simply explained that is completely unrealistic and I suspect the board and the club would not be giving up the season ( putting development ahead of winning) after round 1, as you are doing.
Next you’ll be suggesting we should be tanking for picks - which is what ruined Melb and Carltons culture for a decade.
I’m not keen to see my club go down that path.

No spinny, just no. I think you're confused as to what development means.

Development of players (and game) and winning games are NOT mutually exclusive, and labeling development akin to tanking is absolutely ridiculous and completely naive to suggest as much. Not to mention insulting.

Of course the panel and whatever the 22 is are going out to win every week, that is front of mind for sure.

Being averse to play the young coming through or just as bad being averse to change game is a recipe for stale and predictable, that is what we've become.

If anything IS going to save Bucks's ass it will be game and player development and for obvious reasons it will be much much better for the playing group going forward than continuing the same ol same ol.