Autopsy Round 1, 2022: St.Kilda v Collingwood

[jwikked]

This. At the end of the day, it’s just a game.

I was sitting behind someone who barracks for Collingwood and he was flogging it up all game, and just acting like a massive knob when they won, and then you come across others who were the same way on the way out of the ground and it makes you realise that if your football team winning makes you think you’re better than other people, and makes you as floggish as that, etc, then winning actually ain’t sh*t.

If you’re relying on it to feel good about yourself, or to be happy in life, or to feel like you can walk with your head held high, etc, you’re in a LOT of trouble.

Disagree. If team sports had no emotion attached, it wouldn’t be worth supporting a team.
I watch footy for the highs and lows. Without that, I’d find something more worth my time.

Not sure about the coping mechanism another poster used comparing it to the war in Ukraine, war was going on in the world last year too. And in 2009. And in 1997. And 1966. By that metric, when can you ever enjoy football?

Just because things are worse elsewhere shouldn’t impact the feelings you get in the things you enjoy day to day.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

In other stuff from tonight, those new screens are super-crisp but why use 1/3 of them for an ad logo and another 1/3 with scores that are duplicated on the old screen??. Also HATE the flashing lights after a Saints goal

Lucky there wasnt a fire, with one of the cityside ramps to L3 gone and the concourse only half width, the crush to get out post game was pretty ugly

On the commentary they were saying ‘we love anything that improves fan experience’

Nothing like a giant coles add to improve fans experience.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

From an outsiders perspective - to maximise the strengths of the group and give some youngsters opportunity.

No place in the team for 25+ year olds who aren’t at least decent players.

Play Steele, crouch, Sinclair, Gresham as centre bounce midfielders for 90% of bounces.

Byrnes, Hill, wood primary wingers.

Play battle as a 3rd tall and give him the ball to exit. I think he’s got a great boot on him. Not sure he is great 1-1 so 2nd tall is tough

Play Joyce, Howard, battle, Wilkie, Paton, Webster / Connolly down back.

Replace Kent with NWM even if it’s not his primary position, he’s that talented and will figure it out.

Play Sharman with king, Hayes, membrey, Higgins, butler, NWM up forward.

Ryder doesn’t get back in automatically.


Just don’t think you can play older guys that aren’t good.
Kent, McKenzie to be replaced.
Webster on a short leash despite a decent year in 2021.
Wood on a short leash although I think he’s played fairly well in pre season and tonight was ok.

 

[SaintJunior]

Umpiring was absolutely horrific, but ultimately this was our own fault.

Basic BASIC skill errors, terrible decision-making, no structure, and no plan doesn’t win games.

Will be a long lean year, I fear.

Pretty much nailed it, I would add desire. Collingwood were harder at the ball for longer.

 

[Mikka84]

Ratten will be under the pump if we don't win few early games. No doubt about that.

That would just be club talk to keep the pressure off.

He had last year because he banked a lot of points off 2020, but if he goes backwards 2 years in a row with an age demographic that should be playing finals he will struggle to keep his job.

It's not as though we bottomed out last year and took a heap if first round picks. And the year before we brought in Higgins and Crouch.

He’s under perceived public pressure (PPP for those of you playing at home). All the articles and media had him top two coaches under pressure this year. Dew the other. Whether he was internally or not - this builds with the public and it grows with each loss. Take Hardwick many years ago as an example. It just took a very strong president and ceo to back their own judgement. Not saying Ratts is the man to take us to glory, but we certainly don’t have the level of strength in our president or current ceo.

 

[stavro#4]

28 shots, 27 scores and 12 marks from 54 inside 50’s is not what I would consider dour, no.

It was a pretty free flowing game both ways, dour is strangling a side to the point of not allowing your opposition to get the ball inside 50 or a chance to score… hard to do when we’re paying man on man compared to a well structured zone.

The amount of times we stopped moving the ball because we had no one forward of half forward to kick it too - even the commentators needed to start talking about it as the pies had a 6 goal lead.

Defending transition, we literally flooded the width of the centre corridor down the ground. When we killed the contest, we had no one defending the width of the 50. All night long it was handball handball goal - insert pies player -

How many times did we nicely transition from end to end? Or were most of our entries big top of the square bombs.

We weren’t exciting. We weren’t taking the game to a young collingwood side. We tried to score off only turnover. Because we were allergic to centre clearances. Which is now 3 games in a row.

Dour football.

 

[austinnn]

He’s under perceived public pressure (PPP for those of you playing at home). All the articles and media had him top two coaches under pressure this year. Dew the other. Whether he was internally or not - this builds with the public and it grows with each loss. Take Hardwick many years ago as an example. It just took a very strong president and ceo to back their own judgement. Not saying Ratts is the man to take us to glory, but we certainly don’t have the level of strength in our president or current ceo.

What would be interesting to note is what the Richmond board, president and CEO saw in Hardwick and co that convinced them to stick and not twist.

I'm not sure if Bassat and Lethlean see that in our coaches. I'm not sure what they see. I'm not even sure what I see. I'm not convinced by Ratten or Rath at all, in fact afaics, it's only their rep from their Hawthorn days that's got them this far, I just don't see what they've done for our club at all except be better than the goons they replaced.

Personally, if we were to get rid of Ratts, I really would prefer an up and coming coach to just going for the Messiah option with Clarkson. Would have loved to be the ones to give Leppa a second chance, but Pies got there first.

 

[saintron]

Typical of StKilda.
Dont know to play basic footy. MAN UP on your opponent. Thats what junior footy get taught. Who is teaching this at saints Ratten

 

[Ads734]

I thought Steele was pretty lethargic as well. Not much energy in contests. Still had a decent game by virtue of his cleanliness though

I think Steele was being mauled at every stoppage. Couldn’t get to his best because he had someone on his tape every time. Perhaps one of the other kids could’ve given him a chop out .

 

[Verdun66]

That was mighty disappointing. They seemed to have a better structure. Took it away from the the centre more easily. And exited their half more efficiently. We were slow, with not enough runners or spread.

Even then, I thought we might go over the top of them in the last quarter. But some dumb things, and some missed opportunities and we came up short. To be fair they missed a few as well.

My first live Saints game in four years. Was hoping for better. Hayes brilliant, and flashes from various guys. We’d want to improve pretty quickly.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I was actually wandering if the players went against the coaching directive in the 3rd , when they started linking up a bit

Got a spray at 3QT! Back to following orders in the 4th

 

[lewdogs]

The coach needs to own the poor decisions, and playing Owens on the ball was really bad. No where near it and we were destroyed out of the middle while he was there. I get that we have no midfield depth but once we moved Sincs in there we were much better.

My main concern is the backline which was terrible and disorganised. I worry what will happen when we come up against a good forward line.

Runs of goals were the killer..

Gresh will be better for the run.

 

[Ads734]

I’ve said it before unfortunately we are a culturaless directionless team. It all comes from having too many recruits from other teams who all bring their own cultures and some of those don’t align. I mean our midfield is made up of Crouch Steele both of who have came from somewhere else. Then we bring in Howard Hill butler etc. to me there’s a massive disconnect with how they play. Compare to the Dogs DEEZ SWAMS AND TIGES like with them you know the type of players they go after. St Kilda who the F knows.

 

[Ads734]

Nice to see Gresh seems to have his speed and explosiveness back . We have players who shouldn’t have licence doing way too much.
Butler Byrnes Higgins , do the simple things. My god when snags burnt Gresh

 

[Mikka84]

What would be interesting to note is what the Richmond board, president and CEO saw in Hardwick and co that convinced them to stick and not twist.

I'm not sure if Bassat and Lethlean see that in our coaches. I'm not sure what they see. I'm not even sure what I see. I'm not convinced by Ratten or Rath at all, in fact afaics, it's only their rep from their Hawthorn days that's got them this far, I just don't see what they've done for our club at all except be better than the goons they replaced.

Personally, if we were to get rid of Ratts, I really would prefer an up and coming coach to just going for the Messiah option with Clarkson. Would have loved to be the ones to give Leppa a second chance, but Pies got there first.

I was a big fan of Rats. When I was at the club - he was the standout candidate to take over Richo. But last year and certainly last night, you have to start asking questions.. we have a basic game plan that gets picked apart with ease. McCrae, Voss, Ruttan have all come in and drastically changed their teams game plans over one pre season. With stunning results. Albeit two are only a game deep, but the changes are glaringly obvious.

We recruited mature age finishing players because we thought we were in the window. We got it wrong. We desperately need quality mids - but we won’t attract star free agents. The only way I see is attacking the draft. Blood the youth. Owens isn’t ready - but we did the right thing and exposed him to the highest level. Hope we do with all our kids this year. There will be some hard calls end of year. Letho will make them.

 

[Ads734]

I was a big fan of Rats. When I was at the club - he was the standout candidate to take over Richo. But last year and certainly last night, you have to start asking questions.. we have a basic game plan that gets picked apart with ease. McCrae, Voss, Ruttan have all come in and drastically changed their teams game plans over one pre season. With stunning results. Albeit two are only a game deep, but the changes are glaringly obvious.

We recruited mature age finishing players because we thought we were in the window. We got it wrong. We desperately need quality mids - but we won’t attract star free agents. The only way I see is attacking the draft. Blood the youth. Owens isn’t ready - but we did the right thing and exposed him to the highest level. Hope we do with all our kids this year. There will be some hard calls end of year. Letho will make them.

Don’t trust Voss or Carlton I’ll wait on that very rarely do coaches who’ve been unsuccessful come in and become successful

 

[Yawkey way]

How many time can you sh1t the bed
Friday night footy and full house
Never going to be any good when you have Ross and Kent in your side
This list will take us nowhere

It wasn’t great but we have a bit more talent that wasn’t on the park that I think will make an impact in the next couple of years. The injured guys left us exposed in the midfield and we still have a few with poor skills but Connolly and Sharman and this years draft crop all look good Imo. Paton making his comeback played well and worked his way into the game so I was pleased about that. Hayes shocked me, he still can’t ruck but he’s a fearless, skilful big body who provided plenty with his marking as well.

 

[St Neil]

Jon Ralph says Ratts doesn't have to play finals to get another contract.

We're prioritising development while also trying to win games apparently.

Yes he does. Enough of reappointing coaches with mediocre records. Did we learn nothing from the Richardson era?

Something has to change. Our ball movement and game plan in the first two and a half quarters was woeful.

 

[Sully111]

Same sh*t different day.

Poor skills cost us momentum... time and time again.

We're miles off a flag. That's just the cold hard truth.

And Ratts isn't the man to take us there.

 

[L_W_P]

Howard doesn't work full stop. He's a close tagging key positional defender who can't defend his opponent on the lead.

No wonder port were happy to see that one go.

I keep screaming it but nobody listens:

Howard is NOT a close checking FB.

He's a CHB that is best used when peeling off his opponent to create a mismatch. He is our Howe/McGovern/Adams/Aliir

What we lack in the back 50 is that Nathan Brown FB stopper to sit on the last line and take a man out of the game. This would free up Howard and Battle to play a little freer and go for those intercept marks.

Paton - Joyce - Webster
Battle - Howard - Wilkie
Sinclair - Steele - Gresham
Higgins - Membrey - NWM
Butler - King - Hayes
Marshall - Ross - Crouch
Byrnes - Bytel - Connelly - Hill

 

[Saintbloke]

Only saw parts of the game on Kayo being busy doing other stuff. My impressions.. poor team defensive game from the midfield and forwards/ slow/ no real plan moving the ball from defence to attack/ poor attacking efforts from forwards/ poor stoppage work. Didn't notice the umpires..no worse than normal. Dare I say, Ratts out-coached tactically..again.

I might add that the team has looked pretty flat so far- lethargic against Carlton in the practice match, ok but not convincing against Essendon(after Merrett was rested in the second half), and looked off the pace last night. Steele is our captan and accumulates the ball, but as our main onballer, seems a bit off the pace to me.

 

[Ads734]

We need more guys who don’t panicked and are clean. It’s a damn shame about Hunter as he would seriously make such a difference both on ball and in defence. Anyways we need to get Leo in quick smart then get hill away from the wing or put Sincs on ball. As soon as we changed our midfield from slow and Stodgey to fast and evasive it changed everything.

 

[gringo2011]

Saw that live, two throws in a row, play on! The umps have some sort of paralysis when it comes to rewarding us.

We seemed to get holding the ball when they got ball ups too but the umpiring still didn't cause as much damage as we did to ourselves. We only put in effort for about 15 minutes and even then it was a few individuals.

 

[BrutThough]

I keep screaming it but nobody listens:

Howard is NOT a close checking FB.

He's a CHB that is best used when peeling off his opponent to create a mismatch. He is our Howe/McGovern/Adams/Aliir

What we lack in the back 50 is that Nathan Brown FB stopper to sit on the last line and take a man out of the game. This would free up Howard and Battle to play a little freer and go for those intercept marks.

Paton - Joyce - Webster
Battle - Howard - Wilkie
Sinclair - Steele - Gresham
Higgins - Membrey - NWM
Butler - King - Hayes
Marshall - Ross - Crouch
Byrnes - Bytel - Connelly - Hill

That backlines too tall and would get killed by any forward line with pace.

 

[gringo2011]

Only saw parts of the game on Kayo being busy doing other stuff. My impressions.. poor team defensive game from the midfield and forwards/ slow/ no real plan moving the ball from defence to attack/ poor attacking efforts from forwards/ poor stoppage work. Didn't notice the umpires..no worse than normal. Dare I say, Ratts out-coached tactically..again

I don't think it was even outcoached. They kept it simple and predictable and they all knew their roles. We were like an under 9s side all running at the same ball and a few standing around daydreaming.