Toast Round 1 = St Kilda 85-102 Collingwood

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I get your angle, but I was more talking post 2021. I think he was gettable with a 2022 pick and his name came up, but it’s more an example of how we can improve than a judgement on where we erred.

Fair enough but we picked up zero traded players at the end of 2020 and just two relative cheapies at the end of 2021… no cap room for bigger names…. I doubt he was gettable. Plus we might not have been a very attractive proposition for senior players.

 

[whiskeytown]

That’s not how I remember it

So the pies didnt start scoring more post Buckley?

That’s not how history remembers it… scoring went up once the obsession with retaining possession ended once Harvey took over

 

[sr36]

What exactly is the knock on Bianco?

Physically well below par and isn't yet good enough to compensate.

 

[Scodog10]

Fair enough but we picked up zero traded players at the end of 2020 and just two relative cheapies at the end of 2021… no cap room for bigger names…. I doubt he was gettable. Plus we might not have been a very attractive proposition for senior players.

I’m talking Mitch here not Jeremy. With Lewis Young coming in he was gettable because Carlton had had enough. I just don’t think there was any interest.

 

[DCasey91]

Well the cure for the Sideyslip seems to be stationing him in the forward line and I have no issue with that.

Adams is the bull of the group and has an unquenchable appetite for throwing himself at the ground ball so I'm prepared to cop the inconsistent disposal quality.

Crisp and Maynard are both big bodies with a bit of toe so those two attributes are important in midfield battles, perhaps having them run off the halfback line as we halve a contest in the centre is a better strategy.

Agree 100% on Sidey, blow up players on the wing then kick a snag or 2 up forward. Our smalls there are really dangerous with a serious goal sense.

Yeah I think best bet is one of Maynard/Crisp at halfback. I like the duo with Adams just not together in the middle lol. We have two skilful outlets with Lip/JDG soon to be another with Daicos in due time.

 

[magpies42]

De Goey BOG for me, Lipinski will be an important cog going forward. Wasn’t impressed early in the first when he pulled out of the contest and dropped the uncontested mark running with the flight. But he compensated in other ways.

Sidey is exactly what he should be at his age, more about quality than quantity. He would have been a great asset in a premiership contending side. Just pointing this out to all who thought he didn’t have trade value. Great asset to have teaching our younger players on field.

Josh Daicos

7

Josh Daicos

Age

25

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.5

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

is a gun.

Nick Daicos will be a gun no doubt, but im not reading too much into the stats.

I thought Noble had a very good game. As did most of the team to be fair. First noticed the intentional ‘chaos’ ball from Pendles when he switched his grip to tumble the ball forward. What a great tactic when you don’t know what you’re kicking to going forward, certainly limits the intercept marks in our forward 50.

I’m still not convinced we have the skills to play this game style, even st Kilda chopped us up on the rebound from the turnover ….we will struggle against better sides.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I’m talking Mitch here not Jeremy. With Lewis Young coming in he was gettable because Carlton had had enough. I just don’t think there was any interest.

Fair enough, we digress. How good was the win!!!!

 

[Bianconeri]

So the pies didnt start scoring more post Buckley?

That’s not how history remembers it… scoring went up once the obsession with retaining possession ended once Harvey took over

We still had Mayne racking up sideways possession in the back half the obsession didn’t end

 

[jonbe54]

Agree 100% on Sidey, blow up players on the wing then kick a snag or 2 up forward. Our smalls there are really dangerous with a serious goal sense.

Yeah I think best bet is one of Maynard/Crisp at halfback. I like the duo with Adams just not together in the middle lol. We have two skilful outlets with Lip/JDG soon to be another with Daicos in due time.

I know a lot is prattled on about how much we need a good KPF and I do agree - just like every other side - but they are rare as hens teeth really.

One thing we are going to need shortly is an Adams replacement - now he's not that old but every single player that toils at the coal face like he does cops a true hammering physically and it takes it's toll - he's not old in years but he is in terms of decreasing durability.

We should be looking for another terrier NOW - someone in their second or third season at the most to start learning the craft from Tay and be ready to step into the breach when he retires - sooner than many might imagine.

 

[sr36]

- We need to find a Grimes/ Stewart/ Petty type over the next 18 months. I have faith in Dean holding down a key post that I never had in Keane, but it’s that versatile third tall that frees up Moore which we really lack. Hindsight’s wonderful and all, but how good would we feel coming out of last night with Mitch McGovern in that 22 instead of Madgen…

Won't need it if Howe body holds up. Macgovern is only 4 years younger, there may never be a point in time where he's a better player than Howe.

 

[jonbe54]

De Goey BOG for me, Lipinski will be an important cog going forward. Wasn’t impressed early in the first when he pulled out of the contest and dropped the uncontested mark running with the flight. But he compensated in other ways.

Sidey is exactly what he should be at his age, more about quality than quantity. He would have been a great asset in a premiership contending side. Just pointing this out to all who thought he didn’t have trade value. Great asset to have teaching our younger players on field.

Josh Daicos is a gun.

Nick Daicos will be a gun no doubt, but im not reading too much into the stats.

I thought Noble had a very good game. As did most of the team to be fair. First noticed the intentional ‘chaos’ ball from Pendles when he switched his grip to tumble the ball forward. What a great tactic when you don’t know what you’re kicking to going forward, certainly limits the intercept marks in our forward 50.

I’m still not convinced we have the skills to play this game style, even st Kilda chopped us up on the rebound from the turnover ….we will struggle against better sides.

It was always certain we would struggle against the better sides, the issue has been a strategy to provide a wider spread of winnable games against middling and struggling teams.

We ain't a gonna rise up the ladder like '77 from where we are at present with almost a totally rebuild club.

 

[JB007]

My favourite Nick Daicos moment last night not captured on the TV was in the last quarter……..Madgen attempted a mark when he should have punched and it cost us a goal and Nick was not happy about it and let him know.

To Madgen‘s credit he took the criticism on board and finished the quarter strongly.

 

[nahnah]

I tipped us by 63 so i am a bit disappointed tbh

 

[Gaspard]

Fantastic as the win was, we have to remember the state of the team we were playing. They were quite a lot more undermanned than we were.

Grundy has attracted criticism, but he controlled the centre square. It was largely his doing that we won so clearly out of the middle. The St. Kilda midfielders were sweating on ours because they knew the taps were going to hit them cleanly. Adams in particular was frequently tackled as he got the ball. He was a dominant ruckman rather than a giant midfielder, which seems to be the expectation now. He did his primary job better than usual.

If Adams gets injured, the midfield will be in big strife, and the way he plays means that this is more likely than not.

Our game style looks good and is effective against this kind of opposition. It was very obvious that when they applied more pressure, the control slipped, and we did not really have the players to overcome this. The most notable lack was in round the ground contested marking. We are a bit small and they killed us in this area. Sides applying consistent pressure to the guy with the ball will undo a lot of our good work, at least until our under pressure disposal improves.

The fact that the young players were able to rally and regain control in the last quarter was as surprising as it must have been gratifying to the coaches. Everyone was very tired, but still kept their respective heads and kept running, albeit a bit like doing it in treacle at times.

A win to be proud of, but it is not a season.

 

[DCasey91]

I know a lot is prattled on about how much we need a good KPF and I do agree - just like every other side - but they are rare as hens teeth really.

One thing we are going to need shortly is an Adams replacement - now he's not that old but every single player that toils at the coal face like he does cops a true hammering physically and it takes it's toll - he's not old in years but he is in terms of decreasing durability.

We should be looking for another terrier NOW - someone in their second or third season at the most to start learning the craft from Tay and be ready to step into the breach when he retires - sooner than many might imagine.

There is one at GWS (I mean they are a talent factory) by the name of Tom Green which I rate super high but good luck getting him lol. Would be over the moon if somehow Ash, Hopper or Green explores FA and chooses us (Anderson from GC as well).

But that’s all fairy stuff with our cap situation.

Maynard could essentially takeover from Adams in house but it never hurts to get a budding star from another club that gets more opportunities.

Haven’t kept up to date with where young players grew up. Drew from PA played for Vic Ballarat he’s another one that may breakout this year.

 

[Scodog10]

What exactly is the knock on Bianco?

As a forward pace and size. He’s to slow and small to have an impact in that role. He’s the same size as Elliott with Madgen’s athletic profile…

What he seems to have is time with ball in hand which is why I think he can make it work off HB with time. I’m keen to get an insight from No SPIN who was adamant he play ahead of Harrison even though he’s done nothing in 2022 to justify his spot in the seniors.

 

[Geelong_Bisons_#36]

Everyone will talk up McRae’s tugger connection, but there was a bit of 2010 Collingwood about our game plan last night. That includes the manic forward pressure and unlike Goldsack and Blair who were a big part of our 2010 season the ‘21 crop has better goal sense.

The return to a stricter holding the ball interpretation will help and I liked the change for the most part.

F*ck man, still ripping on Blairy, he retired years ago, give him a break. Haha

 

[Albert Parker]

Just caught up on the game day thread and there were comments on DeGoey being booed. From my perspective at the game, it wasn’t booing - Pies supporters were calling Goo when he did good things. Reminiscent of Tooooves, back in the day.

Saints supporters were definitely booing him early.
My son noted that their supporters were as bad as West Coast supporters.
Some of the stuff they complained about and free kicks they wanted and howled about was embarrassing.
Notwithstanding that, I thought we got a better deal from the umpires on balance.

Thoughts on the team and game
Pleased with the game plan and the execution on the whole. Great coaching by the team.
I thought the moves of Crisp/DeGoey in and Pendles/Sidey out worked well and we had much more grunt at stoppages.
Daicos and Sidey on a wing is solid
Pressure in the forward line is excellent
Get another bigger key defender into the team and our defence looks more assured.
Special shout out for Jack Hayes of the Saints - great debut and best kicking skills of any ruckman in the league. What a steal

Defenders - did well with the cattle available
John Noble cops a bit on here, but I thought he was pretty good tonight.
Howe was great, especially early. Often he is rusty early back from injuries, but he was as sharp as anyone to get us started.
IQ excellent I thought. Moore similar.
Pendles will give confidence and shore up the defence with his calmness. Getting caught more these days, and gets away with a bit because of his reputation and as a captain, but I think he's help guys like Noble quite a bit.
Nick Daicos is exciting. Targeted early but runs hard and will be better from here (from a very good debut). Will be a star.
Madgen, tries hard. Not our worst, but I'd be tempted to try Will Kelly there until Roughead returns. Madgen panics a bit, gets lost and is undersized to pick up resting Ruckman.

Mids - bettered the Saints overall. New midfield of bigger bodies with more pace worked
Grundy better as the game went on. Was a bit pressured with his disposal and some of his ruck contests. But we dominated hit outs to advantage and he got a few clearances again. Something to build on.
Lipinski everything we've been hoping for - good runner, clean in stoppages by hand, great foot skills
DeGoey everything we need from him as a mid pushing forward.
Adams pretty important with his attack on the ball. The game plan suits and he has more support with other bigger bodies in there.
Honestly think I would prefer Callum around the stoppages than his brother though. Caught too often, poor disposal. Callum gets caught less and knows how to find the ball better.
Crisp ball use and decision making remains a concern.
Those who have written off Sidebottom need to have a bit more respect. Can finish around goals but is better launching from the wing than playing up forward for mine. Was important.

Forwards - we topped 100pts, so did their job well
Checkers important in the air and his pressure is pretty good too.
Bianco tried to add pressure and play his role, but I don't know he will form part of our Best 22. Very slow, not strong and doesn't attack his marks.
McCreery, Ginnivan, Elliott are great with their pressure and manage to finish their work pretty well. Nice to have natural forwards up there and not overspill midfielders.
Oli Henry was looking pretty timid for the most part, but those goals will give him confidence.
Cox still makes mistakes, but he bought into the need for pressure and took a couple of clunks late. Ruckwork pretty good too. Plays ahead of Cameron.
On track for a lift back up the ladder of a few spots.

Next week
Krueger back in next week will add pressure and another target to kick to - in for Bianco
Not sure I'd rush Wilbur back in. His pressure is a weakness, but they may bring him in for Brown.
Looking forward to Maynard joining the week after. With Roughy back soonish, our defence will be rock solid. Tempted to bring Kelly in for Madgen but Charlie Dean will be the likely successor to Roughy/Howe.
On track to lift a few spots on the ladder this season. Beat the Crows and team should have some confidence to launch from at 2-0.

 

[magpies42]

It was always certain we would struggle against the better sides, the issue has been a strategy to provide a wider spread of winnable games against middling and struggling teams.

We ain't a gonna rise up the ladder like '77 from where we are at present with almost a totally rebuild club.

Agreed. I think our top end did a great job carrying Ginivan, Bianco, Henry, Brown, Cox…who all had their moments but are not up to AFL standard currently. In Cox’s case I think he will always suffer with such poor delivery.

 

[Scodog10]

Won't need it if Howe body holds up. Macgovern is only 4 years younger, there may never be a point in time where he's a better player than Howe.

Go check out the Howe thread from a few weeks back. Apparently he’s cooked. At 4 years younger that would give him at least 5 at the top level, IMO, and a McGovern, Moore, Howe, IQ, Daicos/ Pendles and Roughy/ Dean defensive mix would put us in an intriguing position as early as 2022. Forgetting that for a second though and your man in Madgen is obviously nowhere near it so finding one would be huge for us.

 

[jonbe54]

There is one at GWS (I mean they are a talent factory) by the name of Tom Green which I rate super high but good luck getting him lol. Would be over the moon if somehow Ash, Hopper or Green explores FA and chooses us (Anderson from GC as well).

But that’s all fairy stuff with our cap situation.

Maynard could essentially takeover from Adams in house but it never hurts to get a budding star from another club that gets more opportunities.

Haven’t kept up to date with where young players grew up. Drew from PA played for Vic Ballarat he’s another one that may breakout this year.

I'm just eager for a young terrier in their second or third season, skills are far less relevant at the coal face really and that describes Tay to a nicety.

If I remember correctly Tay - like Luke before him weren't getting the opportunities at their then present clubs that their capabilities merited.

Would love to pick up another Tay or Luke.

Perhaps mid-season?

Haven't had a chance to concentrate on the game this last 6 months as I've had a heart attack and a fractured hip in fairly quick succession so just not up with who's available.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm just eager for a young terrier in their second or third season, skills are far less relevant at the coal face really and that describes Tay to a nicety.

If I remember correctly Tay - like Luke before him weren't getting the opportunities at their then present clubs that their capabilities merited.

Would love to pick up another Tay or Luke.

Perhaps mid-season?

Haven't had a chance to concentrate on the game this last 6 months as I've had a heart attack and a fractured hip in fairly quick succession so just not up with who's available.

Tay didn’t come cheap. He cost us Heater

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Honestly perfect way to win

I knew literally as it happened that when Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

misjudged that spoil horribly and let that goal in it was a turning point in the match. I told my partner immediately “That’s gonna turn the entire match now and St.Kilda will get in front. Maybe by 3 qtr time”.

But clinging to the lead at the break was the perfect chance to see what sort of coach Fly is. How was he going to settle a young side being overrun and get them back on track? Was he going to make any moves to adjust and get the game back on our terms?

He did both those thing and even despite St.Kilda taking the lead, we still pulled away. Incredible stuff.

Couldn’t be happier thus far with the new coach even at this early stage.

 

[magpies42]

What exactly is the knock on Bianco?

Timid, slow and size. Doesn’t have the tank either. It’s too early for him to be playing senior footy. I’d much rather have Macrae in the side.

 

[sr36]

Go check out the Howe thread from a few weeks back. Apparently he’s cooked. At 4 years younger that would give him at least 5 at the top level, IMO, and a McGovern, Moore, Howe, IQ, Daicos/ Pendles and Roughy/ Dean defensive mix would put us in an intriguing position as early as 2022. Forgetting that for a second though and your man in Madgen is obviously nowhere near it so finding one would be huge for us.

Madge is depth, who took 2 maybe 3 injuries to use, which is what I think Macgovern would be for us too. I'd much prefer to see us save our Bucks to target an inside mid. In terms of the Howe thread, this board has been swept up with celebrity chef craze, as we seem to love cooking blokes. I would have looked for an intercept defender in the last two drafts.