Preview Round 11, 2018: Hawthorn v Port Adelaide, 2 June 2018, 2.10pm @ UTas Stadium

[H2F]

These are just buzz words. Almost every game of AFL is momentum swings. I need a number of specific examples how they have not set standards to accept your point of view.

Alternatively, if you are at the club day in day out I would happily take your point of view.

I love Burgoyne, but he has had one good game this year. But hey, it's easier to criticise Gunston and Bruest.

Neither Gunston or Bruest will ever visibly play a style that people like to see as leadership (physical, crash and bash). I love Hardwick, but this is why you identify him as a leader because he is hard at the ball. Who knows if he has a strong off-field influence on the group. From interviews, he seems very reserved. He reminds me of Stratton in that sense.

Shiels is in the top 3 of tackles per game. That's effort. He is playing at the same standard he has almost his entire career, 20 touches and 8 tackles a game is not below par.

With this point of view, Richie Vandeberg would have been a horrible leader because we lost a heap of games.

Richie Vandenberg showed more leadership than all of the above combined so far (Rough excluded)

You are cherry picking stats and performances period.

If they were leading so well would w have lost three in a row to teams like Brisbane, without any sense of a fight back?

 

[OnceKicked50]

Richie Vandenberg showed more leadership than all of the above combined so far (Rough excluded)

You are cherry picking stats and performances period.

If they were leading so well would w have lost three in a row to teams like Brisbane, without any sense of a fight back?

Extrapolating your logic, any team that drops 3 games in a row is a result of poor leadership.

Once more, if you are able to provide some specific examples I may accept your point. But at present, it seems simply 'we get beaten so must be a leadership issue'.

 

[H2F]

Extrapolating your logic, any team that drops 3 games in a row is a result of poor leadership.

Once more, if you are able to provide some specific examples I may accept your point. But at present, it seems simply 'we get beaten so must be a leadership issue'.

I’ll try and be specific

- When Mitch Robinson jumped into Siciliy’s head no one remonstrated

- When we were 61-49 at three quarter time against the Swans and we lost without so much as a fight

- Burton who is a potential star being allowed to play Hollywood footy and squib it over and over (Hodge would have put him up against a wall)

 

[OnceKicked50]

I’ll try and be specific

- When Mitch Robinson jumped into Siciliy’s head no one remonstrated

- When we were 61-49 at three quarter time against the Swans and we lost without so much as a fight

- Burton who is a potential star being allowed to play Hollywood footy and squib it over and over (Hodge would have put him up against a wall)

The Robinson incident was minor. We had the ball.

The Swans loss was disappointing, but again your logic suggests any side that gets run over in the last was because of poor leadership. Nothing to do with the relative inexperience of a number of our players on that night. Nothing to do with the fact we are not that 2012-2015 side anymore.

As for Burton, your logic suggests any young talent that has a rough patch is down to poor leadership.

This is all highly simplistic, and pretty out dated. Hodge is smart enough to realise you don't motive Gen Y with fire and brimstone.

Young players have periods of poor form early in their careers. It effects confidence which can often effect effort and intent. He is looking good again.

We are an OK footy side at the moment, we will probably drop games we had in control in the future too. We will probably put in disappointing performances too. We can talk about players performance or players future. But leadership is much, much, more then looking for signs of aggression on the field.

To best state poor leadership you really need to be at the club day in day out seeing how our leaders go about their business.

Our leaders are playing well this year, they are not the reason for the poor performances you have indicated. It's just the reality of not being that dominant team anymore. You need to adjust expectations.

 

[eldorado]

Today's the day...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hawks-v-powa.1195538/