Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[BigPowerForward]

I went to my 2nd game for the year........Yay me!
Some random thoughts before I smash out some Suntory double lemons.
Paton is not a winger. When Sharman came on, Paton went back and he looked much better.
Wood and Hill should stay on the wing. Our ball movement looks better when they are.
We seemed to start our small forwards out of the goal square. Higgins, Gresh, Butler and Burns IIRC. The question I have is, if you start with that setup, why the **** kick the ball high to the top of the square. Really giving those small guys no chance of success.

Our midfield was putrid today, but the ease with which the hawks rebounded from our forward line was concerning also. They ran harder all day and cut through our zone with no problem at all.
Lots of lessons to be learned from this outing. Let hope we do learn from it !

 

[Mowman]

Fair point - there is also the alternative outcome where you see some guys become dominant @ VFL, stay too long at the lower level and then can’t translate it to AFL.

I would be more relaxed about this if our AFL midfield was travelling well (it’s not!) & Windy had done nothing AFL level (not the case - some big scalps last year & is now proving @VFL he can find the pill)

I really rate RTB and he has for more footy nous in his little finger than me but I’m struggling with this decision.

How Seb and Byrnes get a game before Windy is weird

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

My impression from the presser was he expects windy to be a great player but he needs to iron out a few things to take him to that level and there is no shame in doing it the 2s like Bartel did many years ago.

Ironically, Sam Mitchell played a full year in the 2s and even won the league bnf if I remember correctly.

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This is such a lame reason. Like Byrnes or Paton don’t have things to work on?
Bartels first year he played half a year at afl level.
Both of them played afl in their first year and were mainstays in their second year.
And I’m sorry but unlike at geelong and box hill you can’t develop anything at sandy.

 

[EddieMurphy]

I went to my 2nd game for the year........Yay me!
Some random thoughts before I smash out some Suntory double lemons.
Paton is not a winger. When Sharman came on, Paton went back and he looked much better.
Wood and Hill should stay on the wing. Our ball movement looks better when they are.
We seemed to start our small forwards out of the goal square. Higgins, Gresh, Butler and Burns IIRC. The question I have is, if you start with that setup, why the * kick the ball high to the top of the square. Really giving those small guys no chance of success.

Our midfield was putrid today, but the ease with which the hawks rebounded from our forward line was concerning also. They ran harder all day and cut through our zone with no problem at all.
Lots of lessons to be learned from this outing. Let hope we do learn from it !

Have we learnt from any other of our losses or even bad wins?

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Fair point - there is also the alternative outcome where you see some guys become dominant @ VFL, stay too long at the lower level and then can’t translate it to AFL.

I would be more relaxed about this if our AFL midfield was travelling well (it’s not!) & Windy had done nothing AFL level (not the case - some big scalps last year & is now proving @VFL he can find the pill)

I really rate RTB and he has for more footy nous in his little finger than me but I’m struggling with this decision.

Leave a good player in the VFL and he becomes a VFL player.

 

[Plugger35]

Windhager 38 disposals and a goal

You can't tell me he'd offer less in the midfield that others we have going through there

Don't be silly we need to stick with Paton in the midfield like Ross did with Eddy while we had a dynamic young midfielder like Steven on the sidelines.

I thought Ross had changed but he is making the same old mistakes, sticking with bog ordinary role players while ignoring more talented ypung players.

We should be getting games into Windhager, Paton isn't the future and will probably be delisted like Eddy was by the time Ross decides to call it quits.

 

[Big Jack14]

We need 6 Sinclairs. Crouch worked hard but the rest are s**t. I'd be chasing mids as an absolute priority. They have lost all the effort that made them competitive at the start of the year. Trade Steele out, he's not going to be here for the next Premiership and we might get a couple of picks for him. Spend them at the draft. No more dreams of recycled saviours. We don't need anymore cherries on the vanilla pudding.

RTB history suggests u may be disappointed

 

[malevu]

Interesting take from the presser about Billings. Lyon said Billings saw himself as a forward not a midfielder. Lyon said that makes it tough with Higgins, Gresham and Butler ahead of him in the small forward stakes. You can also add in Phillipou and Owens spending time forward who also ahead of Billings in the pecking order. We have more than sufficient tall forward options now Max is back.

On that basis Billings might have to get used to playing at Sandy or somehow become a viable mid field option.

 

[Big Jack14]

Don't be silly we need to stick with Paton in the midfield like Ross did with Eddy while we had a dynamic young midfielder like Steven on the sidelines.

100%. very costly

 

[Saint Shags]

How Seb and Byrnes get a game before Windy is weird

That's the most perplexing thing. It's not as if our mids have been unstoppable over the last 6 weeks.

And why is it that he has things to work on from the Port game?
He came on as the sub. I wouldn't have thought he was the issue in that match!

 

[Kennedy84]

If you live in Tassie or NT and they get a team, you're all good imo. I'm checking out properties in Tassie after dinner. Pain in the Rse to move there from Japan just to change teams, but the Nagoya Redbacks aren't getting promoted anytime soon.

Didn't expect to read a comment like this. I remember playing against the Nagoya Redbacks in 2006. I was part of the Kyoto Kockatoos...still have my Guernsey. My knees used to get torn up in those gravel surfaces.

 

[malevu]

Windhager 38 disposals and a goal

You can't tell me he'd offer less in the midfield that others we have going through there

Lyon said he was going to the game. Hope he got there in time

 

[Plugger35]

Interesting take from the presser about Billings. Lyon said Billings saw himself as a forward not a midfielder. Lyon said that makes it tough with Higgins, Gresham and Butler ahead of him in the small forward stakes. You can also add in Phillipou and Owens spending time forward who also ahead of Billings in the pecking order. We have more than sufficient tall forward options now Max is back.

On that basis Billings might have to get used to playing at Sandy or somehow become a viable mid field option.

That might be OK if we won today but going on what I saw from our midfield and forwards I would be getting Billings back in our team in a heartbeat.

 

[Sully111]

Byrnes to me is always going to be the guy that tries really hard. But unfortunately I don't think it will be enough.

Just watched Ross's presser. I actually found it to be a bit better than his recent ones. Recently I've found him to be disingenuous and flippant. I liked the fact that he talked about where Windy is at and what the plan is for him. Hopefully we get to see Windy in the 1s soon

Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

was back in form today.

Not sure what's going on with Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

.

Nas is just unreal.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Please please please. Take the first pick to the draft and take a mid.

 

[Kennedy84]

Please please please. Take the first pick to the draft and take a mid.

We've done well in the past couple of drafts, if we can crush this one, we have a really good young core which will limit the damage when the older ones retire....so important this draft

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Byrnes to me is always going to be the guy that tries really hard. But unfortunately I don't think it will be enough.

Just watched Ross's presser. I actually found it to be a bit better than his recent ones. Recently I've found him to be disingenuous and flippant. I liked the fact that he talked about where Windy is at and what the plan is for him. Hopefully we get to see Windy in the 1s soon

Mason Wood was back in form today.

Not sure what's going on with Josh Battle.

Nas is just unreal.

Agreed. Byrnes has 0 AFL qualities.
Small, weak, can’t kick, not overly quick, makes poor decisions.

 

[BigPowerForward]

Have we learnt from any other of our losses or even bad wins?

I'm not in the inner circle. The coaches would have certain KPIs and roles for the players to fulfill. I'll reserve my judgement until after we play them.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Ross acted like the loss was no big deal, he should be made to come on big footy and read the game day thread and the Autopsy thread and see that supporters expect more from our coaches and our team.

One of the worst losses I’ve seen live and that’s from a big pool of crap losses.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

We've done well in the past couple of drafts, if we can crush this one, we have a really good young core which will limit the damage when the older ones retire....so important this draft

Yep sure have. And good to see Keeler have a good game.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I haven’t read all pages, but surprised with much of the heat being on the likes of Byrnes and Paton. That midfield effort was astonishingly bad. Absolute bed wetters spanked by some kids with more desire. Crouch, Steele, Ross and Gresham. Effing awful.

 

[BrutThough]

Everything about todays games was awful. We looked disinterested and a team who had already checked out for their bye expecting this to be an easy win.

- Blaming the loss on Higgins is moronic. His dropped mark might have cost us the chance to ice the game but we let them kick 3 goals after that moment. Putting that on Higgins ignores there were other 21 players who weren't hungry enough, skilled enough or just plain good enough in those last 5ish minutes when we needed them to be. He's a good player, having a very good season who had a bad moment.

- Steele is clearly still injured. Admiral that he is trying to get up each week and getting the tackle numbers he does. But you can see he is struggling physically and it's getting close to the point that we cant continue to carry him until his body is right

- Midfield well beaten again. Crouch and Ross look like shadows of the players they were in the first 6 weeks. Not sure what has happened to both of them but it's concerning. Steele has already been discussed. Clark was injured early so not a factor in getting beaten to badly but it's unlikely he would have provided the pace we need in there given his weaknesses. Sinclair being thrown into the middle in the 2nd half isn't enough.

- It's time to make some changes - it was time 2 or 3 weeks ago. The coaches have had their mulligan and then a 2nd mulligan. Time to try some different combinations. I want to see Windy come in and play midfield. Owens, once cleared, as a midfielder. Maybe try Phillipou in there for a full game. Bring in Billings to play forward to improve the foot skills. Does Steele need to spend time forward with his injures? Clark back to half back for a full game to fit others in. Maybe try resting Marshall up forward for a few minutes instead of just the bench. Everything we try won't work but I want to see us trying something different with the midfield and forward mix.

Time to re group. I hope this sits with the players and stings for their entire time off. As unlikely as it seemed when the siren went, our best is good enough to beat Sydney.

 

[crasha301]

This is such a lame reason. Like Byrnes or Paton don’t have things to work on?
Bartels first year he played half a year at afl level.
Both of them played afl in their first year and were mainstays in their second year.
And I’m sorry but unlike at geelong and box hill you can’t develop anything at sandy.

Well it's the reason we were given.

For once someone has to earn their stripes, yes maybe at the expense of playing a senior player like Ross. But what's going to pay off in the long run?

Ross is 10 games into working out the list, he's not stupid and does things for a reason.



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[crasha301]

Leave a good player in the VFL and he becomes a VFL player.

How many games did Sinclair play in the VFL?

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[The Cobra]

How many games did Sinclair play in the VFL?

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The short answer is too many!

Richo couldn’t work out he was a gun in the making & what his best position was - so the easy answer was back to the VFL