Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[gringo2011]

I also think it's bit confusing that the Port game was mentioned specifically as the game he was found out. But in that game, he was the sub who came on in the last quarter and 3 of his 4 disposals led to scores while also having 2 tackles (5 of the named starting forwards had 2 between them).

It sounds like Lyon isn't as big on Windhager as the fans are. He looks great from the eye test so you have to imagine it's his two way running or something that we aren't seeing that is holding him back.

 

[True Blue Saint]

It sounds like Lyon isn't as big on Windhager as the fans are. He looks great from the eye test so you have to imagine it's his two way running or something that we aren't seeing that is holding him back.

Which seems a bit odd because I don't see many of our mids running 2 ways currently

 

[gringo2011]

Which seems a bit odd because I don't see many of our mids running 2 ways currently

I've got past the being pissed off with them thing now. Seriously Steele and Crouch are two of the better two way mids in the comp. Steele doing shoulder and a knee are such a loss that our defence is under much more pressure since he went down. Seb Ross is probably the worst of them and even he does a lot of perceived pressure.

If anything our mids are too focussed on their game being two way and aren't overly assertive. The other side doesn't have the ball if you are winning it and holding onto it.

I think what we are really seeing is that we lack our Bont or Trac that lifts the side on their back and smashes a game open. I really hope Owens or Windy are stars because I don't know here else we get one from.

 

[True Blue Saint]

I've got past the being pissed off with them thing now. Seriously Steele and Crouch are two of the better two way mids in the comp. Steele doing shoulder and a knee are such a loss that our defence is under much more pressure since he went down. Seb Ross is probably the worst of them and even he does a lot of perceived pressure.

If anything our mids are too focussed on their game being two way and aren't overly assertive. The other side doesn't have the ball if you are winning it and holding onto it.

I think what we are really seeing is that we lack our Bont or Trac that lifts the side on their back and smashes a game open. I really hope Owens or Windy are stars because I don't know here else we get one from.

We really need to have a deeper rotation don't we.

I don't see any issue in playing Steele more forward (especially whilst he's not at peak form/fitness) and running Windy & Bytel through there as well.

 

[Munga]

I also think it's bit confusing that the Port game was mentioned specifically as the game he was found out. But in that game, he was the sub who came on in the last quarter and 3 of his 4 disposals led to scores while also having 2 tackles (5 of the named starting forwards had 2 between them).

Yikes! All a bit weird why they've gone with that storyline.

 

[PandaG]

Bitterly disappointed with Saturday playing against an ordinary team. The last month has been ordinary and it looks like the real gut running and not negotiable effort has dropped off. Given the quality of our list we need 100% effort to be successful.

However, to be balanced, we have outperformed until 4 weeks ago given our injury list.

Old RTB is being very measured in public but I suspect he has a very detailed file with notes about those players who he sees as the future and those who will be moved on. Every game played provides more intelligence and data. He will also be working with Gubby and SOS and the other recruiters now and identifying who is going and who they should target for next season and beyond.

I expect there will be significant changes at the end of the season and any player (other than a few guns) who feels comfortable may be in for an unpleasant surprise.

If there is one thing we know about RTB, he can be ruthless!

Is our list much better than hawthorns though..??

 

[PandaG]

Yeah get that. Probably referring to this year as temporary measure.

The question isnt about his football ability. He is an excellent footballer. I am questioning his ability to lead a group of men.

 

[Jade Buddha]

The question isnt about his football ability. He is an excellent footballer. I am questioning his ability to lead a group of men.

Yes and he’s either unfit/injured, out of form or devoid of confidence or a combination of all 3 so his excellence has left him for the moment. So yes he is a leader but not able to lead right now. It’s how he leads and he can’t show it.

 

[bergholt]

We really need to have a deeper rotation don't we.

Hawks just beat us with only four main mids really - Day, Nash, Newcombe, Worpel. Not sure depth is the problem but chemistry and workrate of the guys we have.

 

[gringo2011]

Hawks just beat us with only four main mids really - Day, Nash, Newcombe, Worpel. Not sure depth is the problem but chemistry and workrate of the guys we have.

Midfields are more than just the middle 3 though now. Their outside players are pretty solid and they had McKenzie and guys like that playing as well. They run and spread hard like that Hawks poster suggested. They are pretty Pies light.


Interestingly Andy Maher suggested someone who is an insider at the Saints let him know that the Hawks had decided to attack the Saints through handball and even when they started to falter and get down on the scoreboard they stuck with the plan.

Apparently we had inside info that it was coming and still managed to stuff it up.

 

[Parkysp]

The thing that I found interesting out of RTBs press conference was the treatment of Windy. Being of a similar age to Ross and having experience of managing people, though no where near his level of responsibility, I did find it interesting that off a substitute game that he's then delegated down to the next level of coaching his development.

I reckon that has been a mistake. I'd have liked him in front of my eyes so I could coach him myself. I do hope that collaborative, cuddly Ross hasn't gone too far the other way. The kid's a gun. You got to protect the good ones from playing with duds and make sure they're learning in an elite environment no matter the job.

 

[joydivision22]

Shouldve got pantsed by more
Very ordinary
Crouch stays
Capt is injuried
Seb i dunno tbh, wtf? Vfl i think
Roma can he actually jump?
Wheres the next paddy coming from because we need one who can actually ruck
Hayes wouldn't of let sicily do that today, he plays with pure heart and effort and needs to be in at chf when fit
Windy in, i dont care about something to work on, if the years exploratory put him in and ******* explore then!

We have been saying it for years, the midfield is slow and one dimensional
A1 and A2 lol how about get the ball??
Gresh selfish
Higgs brain fader
Simple things to work on yet they never seem to have worked on
Wtf was that by gresh out the middle, just panic and bomb.
He couldve dodged traffic or dished off but chose the last worst option which was a hack kick.
Ive said for a year to let him go and get the pick.
We shouldnt neeed him to go in the middle ffs
Remember that game against geelong a few years ago, absolutely danced around them in the fwd pocket snapping from everywhere.
Thought we had a ten year pocket sewn up, but apparently he is a mid as well.
Nope

I want to see some serious changes after the bye
That would be exploratory

Too negative for this group lol

 

[A Diakos]

Do you like pain

he does barrack for the Saints so yes he does like some Pain

 

[PoppedCorn]

 

[Ricmel]

I think what we are really seeing is that we lack our Bont or Trac

Been done to death. We got Billings and McCartin....deal with it

 

[gringo2011]

Been done to death. We got Billings and McCartin....deal with it

I wasn't even talking about missing out, we need stars to carry us when the games get momentum shifts against us and carry the side on their back. Name them JDG and Dangerfield then. They aren't as high impact out of the centre though IMO.

I think Owens has some of that potential and I think that Sinclair has a touch of it but nowhere near as much. Hopefully Phillipou too. Until we get some of those real game breakers and leader we'll be a bit vulnerable.

 

[bergholt]

Interesting that the margin was relatively close but the coaches didn't think any of our players were good:

10 James Sicily

6

James Sicily

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

365.0

5star

D

19.4

4star

K

14.3

5star

HB

5.1

3star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

437.4

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

173.8

3star

(HAW)
8 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
6 Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

25

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

(HAW)
2 Mitch Lewis (HAW)
2 Jarman Impey (HAW)
1 Luke Breust

22

Luke Breust

Age

34

Ht

182cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

4.8

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

1.8

5star

(HAW)
1 Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

(STK)

 

[gringo2011]

Interesting that the margin was relatively close but the coaches didn't think any of our players were good:

10 James Sicily (HAW)
8 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
6 Dylan Moore (HAW)
2 Mitch Lewis (HAW)
2 Jarman Impey (HAW)
1 Luke Breust (HAW)
1 Max King (STK)

I didn't do the votes for that reason. I couldn't think of a player that deserved a vote. They all looked shit at different stages. Lazy uncompetitive and arrogant.

 

[Saintbloke]

Interesting that the margin was relatively close but the coaches didn't think any of our players were good:

10 James Sicily (HAW)
8 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
6 Dylan Moore (HAW)
2 Mitch Lewis (HAW)
2 Jarman Impey (HAW)
1 Luke Breust (HAW)
1 Max King (STK)

I really had a hard time picking a good Saints player. King did well for 4 goals, but faded later in the game. Crouch tried a bit but didn't have much impact in the end. No Saint really stood up and led from the front sadly.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I'm at the point with Gresh where I'm asking for offers as I don't want that man entering our F50 with any disposal as he'll crossbody screw grubber 90% of them trying to emulate a fancy Dunstan I50.

Realistically, Dmac shifts with Byrnes in mid, Byrnes shifts with Butler and Butler potentially shifts to rookie list ala Lonie in that sort of shuffle around, I think Byrnes could do what Butler does only with more physicality and repeat efforts to actually retain that ball in that F50. Already I've classed Gresh as a tease, has attributes, could be something, doesn't have the mentality for it, will never reach those heights, we'ree on a hiding if we rely on him to be a difference as he'll disappoint more than he excites and tease "maybe next time" that'll never happen.

Your taking the p155 , Butler may not be Dusty but he goes hard enough at the ball . id say Byrnes is the one who skirts are the outside looking for cheapies and even when he gets it , who do you want kicking for goal , Butler or Byrne's and if your saying Byrnes I'm sending you to spec savers

 

[The Punter]

I can get as angry at Butler as anyone, but he's one of the best in the league at his very specific role - pressure forward. Most teams don't really have a specialist in the role.

 

[Saintbloke]

Your taking the p155 , Butler may not be Dusty but he goes hard enough at the ball . id say Byrnes is the one who skirts are the outside looking for cheapies and even when he gets it , who do you want kicking for goal , Butler or Byrne's and if your saying Byrnes I'm sending you to spec savers

Byrnes is the type of runner we need, but the only problem is our mid extractors are not extracting enough , or if they do, it is not clean, so the outside link-up runner loses a bit of functionality in the team. Butler is doing a pretty good job in his role, but he suffers from a lack of a good CHF to hold the ball in the forward half at the moment.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Byrnes is the type of runner we need, but the only problem is our mid extractors are not extracting enough , or if they do, it is not clean, so the outside link-up runner loses a bit of functionality in the team. Butler is doing a pretty good job in his role, but he suffers from a lack of a good CHF to hold the ball in the forward half at the moment.

Byrnes is not the player you want to be kicking to our forwards , he shanks way too many

 

[okeydoke7]

Byrnes is not the player you want to be kicking to our forwards , he shanks way too many

Not just shanks. The ball spins sideways sometimes! It’s a shame.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Not just shanks. The ball spins sideways sometimes! It’s a shame.

Helicopter kid , and no penetration either