I feel like nearly all our teams possessions were ineffective. Either no system or a very bad one
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Autopsy Round 15, 2022: Sydney v St.Kilda
- Thread starter George
- Start date
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I’ve mentioned this multiple time before but I feel it’s time again. They had a guy on sen talking about he predicted the tigers premiership and then also predicted the dogs before that or which ever came first. Anglyways his whole premise was that you can’t have too many players brought in from other teams without an already established identity. This is because as there isn’t an established culture the guys from the other clubs will bring in their own identities/cultures and it will create dysfunction. I think it’s so indicative of us.
We have
Howard
Ryder
Hill
Butler
Higgins
Jones
Hanners
Crouch
It’s seems obvious to me from the outside how guys like Crouvh, hill , Howard and jones could all clash.
We have
Howard
Ryder
Hill
Butler
Higgins
Jones
Hanners
Crouch
It’s seems obvious to me from the outside how guys like Crouvh, hill , Howard and jones could all clash.
A bit hard having to front up and defend the indefensible. I think the message will be different behind closed doors.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
We are the only side that moves the ball slowly in an age of fast footy. We are a dinosaur. Billings and Membrey can’t play away from goal because their brains are too slow to pick an option without causing a long pause in play.
Yes well sorry to say but we had a SPUD game and a Pride day, both with lots of emotion and ****ing shit footy. So I am bound to agree with you. Maybe we get back to playing footy and direct the emotions to the aggression of ****ing slaughtering the opposition!
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I agree with this. I don't think our transition has looked good all year. We've relied on Max and Higgins kicking 4 or 5 goals out of brilliance to win most of our games I think our scoring from stoppage has been good at times as well
I think we saw last night how big of a loss Hayes was. Moving Marshall to first ruck was a good move because he was able to have a big influence, unfortunately the move of having Sharman ruck up forward was a complete disaster as Hickey just grabbed it and booted it every time or intercept marked.
At the end of the day the most important type of pressure is scoreboard pressure and if you have 2 goals on the board half way through the last you will never win. The game was something of an arm wrestle for quite a while but our complete inability to score just meant in the end the tide was too much.
A few things I've noticed in terms of the forwards is that our kicks get intercepted so often, especially centre clearances. Now why is that? It suggests to me our forwards are lazy, they need to spoil more. On the other hand our smalls at the moment are incredibly average, I really like Ben Long but he is an incredibly average player that really only looks good when the side is up and about, Butler is hideously out of form, King out of form, Higgins out of form and in the 2s, Billings is an ok player but seems to lack zip and creativity. Membrey is a great lead up mark type player and he is trying hard but can't get his hands on it inside 50. Basically the forward line is a shambles at the moment but there is no easy way to fix it unless Higgins comes back in and hits form.
Maybe we can try Hill forward again, I don't know but something needs to change in terms of our scoring because if we don't find a way to score we might not win another game. Another move I wouldn't mind is throwing Nasiah into the forward line.
I see the blame is getting thrown at Ratts, I'm really unsure a different coach would help right now. If sacking Ratts and getting someone else would help then I'd be all for it, but will it? The strange thing about this season is that we were looking great, then looking ok, now our form is probably the worst in the competition. We have to believe we can turn the form around and at least start challenging teams again.
To do that we need to start scoring.
At the end of the day the most important type of pressure is scoreboard pressure and if you have 2 goals on the board half way through the last you will never win. The game was something of an arm wrestle for quite a while but our complete inability to score just meant in the end the tide was too much.
A few things I've noticed in terms of the forwards is that our kicks get intercepted so often, especially centre clearances. Now why is that? It suggests to me our forwards are lazy, they need to spoil more. On the other hand our smalls at the moment are incredibly average, I really like Ben Long but he is an incredibly average player that really only looks good when the side is up and about, Butler is hideously out of form, King out of form, Higgins out of form and in the 2s, Billings is an ok player but seems to lack zip and creativity. Membrey is a great lead up mark type player and he is trying hard but can't get his hands on it inside 50. Basically the forward line is a shambles at the moment but there is no easy way to fix it unless Higgins comes back in and hits form.
Maybe we can try Hill forward again, I don't know but something needs to change in terms of our scoring because if we don't find a way to score we might not win another game. Another move I wouldn't mind is throwing Nasiah into the forward line.
I see the blame is getting thrown at Ratts, I'm really unsure a different coach would help right now. If sacking Ratts and getting someone else would help then I'd be all for it, but will it? The strange thing about this season is that we were looking great, then looking ok, now our form is probably the worst in the competition. We have to believe we can turn the form around and at least start challenging teams again.
To do that we need to start scoring.
I also think it’s more to do with game style, coaching and development. Yes, we don’t have many elite kicks, but look at Hawthorn, which players in their backline and midfield are considered elite users? I can’t think of many… 80-90% of the AFL listed players should be able to execute basic kicks/handballs skills, but
1. if most of our team are fatigued after all that pressing, running to spots to press and chase long bombs, their skills are not going to be good..
2. we move the ball way too slow, when it’s congested in midfield and forward line, picking the eye of the needle will be a much tougher kick, only elite kicks can do that
3. our game plan seem just to be swarm here and there in numbers and rely on numbers rather than one on ones to win the football.. again we don’t create enough space for us to use the ball cleanly even when we do get the ball..
All of this points to a coaching issue.. I’ll say if Sam Mitchell took over this side, he’ll be able to do better than Ratts, at least he would get this team to play the right way, not trying to get close on the score board by play a slow/dour game style then rely on luck/momentum to win the game in a 10-15 minute stretch when the opposition falls asleep..
The ironic thing about it is, we would have to be the most predictable side to play against.It's not a design flaw- it's a design FEATURE.
We have no system deliberately.
Surely not you say?
Inside Ratten's coaching philosophy with 'football guru' David Rath
David Rath’s strategic mind and experience in the AFL industry has him with a finger on the pulse to the game’s subtle changes and wider evolutions - and it shapes as a major benefit to the red, white and black.www.saints.com.au
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The theory is that we will be unpredictable, which will screw up the opposition's defensive structures.
In practice though all that happens is that it screws up OUR offensive structures.
Unpredictability is a double edged sword.
Sure, the opposition don't know what you're gonna do next.... but neither do your teammates ffs.
All we get with this '"no system IS the system" approach by rath and ratts is headless chooks launching long moonballs and blind panic disposals.
It works against:
A. crap teams and
B. half decent teams when they sit off us and don't pressure.
But it almost always turns to custard against:
A. decent teams and
B. half decent teams which put our ball carrier under a lot of sustained pressure.
It simply does not work, clearly ratts and rath are wedded to it though.
Credit to them for trying to break the mould a little and innovate, but the writing is on the wall- it doesn't beat a well organised and drilled team.
God I hope the club have the stones to accept that we've tried and failed with ratts and rath- time to throw 20 kitchen sinks at a guy who will give our guys a system... clarko
I counted 1 time we switched play yesterday, might have missed a couple more, but we play in straight lines down the thin side.
When Saints get the ball, keep good representation on the thin side wing with your ruckman, etc. Keep 2 or 3 defenders deep for King where we will go 95% of the time if we win it on the wing. Watch Butler who will try and get out the back, but he will back off at the slightest hint of body contact.
Saintos The ITK
Premium Platinum
Wow that was a reality check wasn’t it.
Poorly coached and poorly led by the look of it.
I wonder if thes special games have an effect on the mindset?
You can imagine the heartfelt emotions the boys would be subjected to prior to Maddies game and Spuds game. Indigenous round has become quite intense with so many Murri boys in the club now and Nickies stand. I’m sure they’d also be subjected to tales of affirmation and struggle prior to the pride game. Surely it’s all emotionally draining just prior to a big game???
Would be nice to just play football for a year and see how that goes without all the intensive emotional loading.
Maybe still celebrate but get the heavy stuff out of the way for the team at least earlier in the week??
And yes I know we won Maddies game.
Poorly coached and poorly led by the look of it.
I wonder if thes special games have an effect on the mindset?
You can imagine the heartfelt emotions the boys would be subjected to prior to Maddies game and Spuds game. Indigenous round has become quite intense with so many Murri boys in the club now and Nickies stand. I’m sure they’d also be subjected to tales of affirmation and struggle prior to the pride game. Surely it’s all emotionally draining just prior to a big game???
Would be nice to just play football for a year and see how that goes without all the intensive emotional loading.
Maybe still celebrate but get the heavy stuff out of the way for the team at least earlier in the week??
And yes I know we won Maddies game.
They'll be looking at the stats going oh were not far off. All the main stats except i50 and efficiency i50 are fairly close yet we got smashed
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
So we’re Melbourne and they bought in Langdon that was shit because he couldn’t kick. Our coaching is abysmal. Freo have no more talent but give everything and look well drilled in their roles. Ratts needs Choco if we have to keep him. Rath is a stats guy who wanks off over pieces of paper but wouldn’t know what a football was in a line up.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
You can’t have too many of them so I won’t complain
It's funny how when we lose badly you just come in and give it to people at the club who you wouldn't have the faintest clue about eg Rath.
Diehard Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Well doing the same thing week after week sure isn’t working.
3 losers. They did not win us a flag. They have no premiership culture and we don't need that groupthink mentality.
They are winners in life, two were individual champions one an ok coach.
Collectively they won donuts when it came to flags.
Looking for the messiah from football failures wont cut it.
We had 61 tackles last night, 16 i50. Was the least of our worries
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Look at his resume. He’s from champion data. He’s not a coach and has a big say on both list and match day. He was at the Hawks with Ratts but other than that he’s not got much to sell him. It’s like making your failed assistant coach head recruiter again. Get the best not an experiment.
Same guys (almost) we beat the Cats, beat Freo, beat the Hawks comfortably. Where the firetruck has that side gone?
We seem to go both too fast and too slow. When we're trying to run with the ball we looked up saw nothing panic and then keep trying to go at a frenetic pace forward leading to an eventual turnover. When we have clean possession we seem to go very slow
