Autopsy Round 16, 2022: Carlton v St.Kilda

[Remboy]

Judging by their embarrassment of a preview thread it was meant to be a regulation 10 goal win.

Anyway on to next week how much are we flogging Freo by?

I’m way ahead of you. Wondering who we‘re playing in the first week of the finals. Be good to win and get the week off.

 

[Premium]

Windhager is an important player. He can dispose of pretty much anyone, body to body going for the pill. Can turn a dead rubber scrap situation into an easy win. Great watching him bulldoze and push people off the ball with ease, as a kid

The guy will only get better with every game and in a couple years he can be one of the best players in the AFL ,being able to over power his opponent at 19ys of age is actually Dangerfield type talent.

Marcus Windhager: pick-and-rolls and kicking goals​

By Marcus Uhe
When AFL clubs are searching for a point-of-difference in this year’s draft pool, they must consider the credentials of Sandringham’s Marcus Windhager.
At 15, Windhager represented Australia in the 2018 FIBA Under-15 Oceania Basketball Championships, averaging 9.2 points, 3.7 rebounds and 3.2 assists across the tournament, as Australia went-on to claim gold in a nail-biting finale against New Zealand.
While it’s not the bright lights of the NBA, there wouldn’t be too many 15-year-olds that could claim that they have competed in international tournaments, and for Windhager, it served as an eye-opener into what it takes to mix it with the best.
“I think that being at that level, it puts into perspective how much work’s required to get to that level,” Windhager said. “I think that’s what I pride myself on, hard work and embracing that you have to put in a lot of hard yards to get to where you want to be.”
Despite playing basketball at such an elite standard, football has always been his first priority. A shift in schools from St Bede’s College to Haileybury College in 2020 brought with it the demands of Associated Private School (APS) football, ultimately putting basketball on the back-burner.
“I guess I just came to enjoy footy more.
“I think moving to Haileybury, everyone’s focus is just footy all the time and I enjoyed that, and enjoyed the hard work that’s required in footy.”
On-top of moving schools, Windhager’s rupture of an Anterior Crucial Ligament (ACL) when playing school football for St Bede’s was another critical factor in his decision to step-away from basketball.
While there is hardly a good time to suffer such a devastating injury, Windhager was able to see the positive of recovering during Melbourne’s brutal COVID-enforced lockdown in 2020.
“…being locked-down, I had a lot of time to get my knee strong and make sure that that sort of injury doesn’t happen again. I did a lot of training, worked with a few people to strengthen and make sure I was confident in my knee, and make it strong to come back and play footy again at a high level.”
“When I was coming back, it was (at the back of my mind), like I guess it was something I was scared of.
“Now it’s something that doesn’t even cross my mind when I’m playing, because I have confidence in the rehab I did that my knee is strong now and there’s nothing really to be worried about.
“It was a pretty big hurdle to get over and I guess, confidence in myself, just to get over such a daunting injury, and to continue to work, (be) diligent with rehab and don’t cut any corners.”
Playing a midfield/forward role, Windhager knows where the goal are, finishing second in the SMJFL 2019 Under 16s Division One goalkicking table with 23 majors from 10 games playing for Beaumaris, including a bag of 11 against Bentleigh.
Like many who have crossed-over from the hardwood, he possesses that explosive first step, and can navigate through traffic with the best of them.
And while football is much more free-flowing and more difficult to implement set plays compared to basketball, Windhager’s ability to process and interpret what’s happening around him gives him a leg-up when considering the tactical X’s and O’s.
“Yeah it’s definitely helpful when learning new concepts or strategies from a coach, because I think that’s such a main part of basketball, being able to execute those strategies.”
Competing in both the NAB League and in the APS competition for Haileybury in 2021 has presented him the opportunity to work on winning more contested possessions, an area that he identified as a goal for this year.
When thrown into the middle against Tasmania in round 11 of the NAB League, his breakaway speed and the ability to hit targets out of a stoppage stood-out in the 38-point win.
His excellent start to the season has been rewarded with selection in the Vic Metro squad for the 2021 Under 19 National Carnival, alongside seven other Dragons including Dante Visentini, Luke Cleary and Caleb Lewis, where he will have an ideal opportunity to best showcase his talents in front of the footy world against the best of his age group from across the country.
He says his connection with his teammates has helped push him to level he’s at today.
“I’ve have a good group of mates, most of them from Dragons and from school that even over lockdown last year and the one that we just had, nearly every night we’re down at the footy oval in Parkdale, doing contested work and it would be full-on. We’d go full-on at each other and have competitions and pushed each other and we all share the same goal so that helped a lot. “
Meeting elite standards and participating in high performance programs from such a young age has meant that he’s been forced to make some difficult sacrifices over the journey. Come the end of the year, he’s hoping that all the hard work and commitment will be justified.
“The end goal is getting drafted, that’s something I’ve wanted to do for a long time and it’s definitely a goal of mine, a dream of mine. I think that’s the biggest motivation I guess. It’s why I put in a pile of work, just to get there.”


This guy was a top 10 pick at the worst --- can be anything

 

[Mowman]

I actually thought they were, we were very bad with tackling and scragging.
The latter in particular.
Carlton definitely deserved more frees in their forward half than they got.
Battle, Wilkie, Howard and Webb all big offenders
Completely different sense of their performance from the tv coverage I grant you.

Watch the replay Carlton got given plenty

And the Butler free kick FMD #blatantcheating

 

[plugger66]

He's a bit like Mason Wood to me. He looked like he might be a very good player at times but overall he's disappointing. Kids like Naz and Windhager don't offer the stable baseline but you can see they bring energy, speed and bravado. I reckon Jack needs to improve in the next 12 months of he could easily be playing VFL most weeks. He's good enough for now but for us to improve he needs to be slowly phased out. He's the safe option but that only appeals for so long.

If he is a seconds player we then have the best list in the afl. I don’t care what people say but he keeps getting rated on his pick number. He was good last night.

 

[Joffaboy]

The two contentious decisions, I have no real problem with.
To me Butler put the ball in front of him and then played for the free. That's HTB.

The non fifty was ok. Mark taken, looked like he was playing on maybe looked touched. Think it was ok, however they pay 50's for anything and something ' by the letter of the rules' as they always point to, is left for the 'common sense' rule.

Least of my gripes, Higgins back fallen into near goal, play on, Steele ITB, at a centre bounce, play on, same with Battle, but every single ITB paid to Carlton.
The consistency was appalling, and the AFL.does nothing to address it.

 

[BrutThough]

Really proud of that performance. We were challenged multiple times, lost momentum and the lead, but didn't panic and kept taking the game on. Huge improvement from what we were dishing up the past few weeks.

- Best game Butler has played since 2020. He finally got some reward for his pressure. He has had a lot of almost games where he had the opportunities but just sprayed his kicks on goal but last night, he had both parts of his game firing.

- Forward line looked so much better not focusing on King and as we saw, we have a lot of dangerous forwards so there is no need to only use King. Membrey was excellent and was surprised he only had 10 disposals. His impact seemed much larger than that. With us being so King focused, it was like we had forgotten what a weapon we have in Membrey. And King had more impact with us not focusing on him too much - we also got to see how great he is at ground level and his agility.

- Highmore was fantastic when he came on. You could have excused a few nervous moments from him in his first game of the season but he didn't miss a beat. Hill and Sinclair just dominated and were great to watch. Wilkie and Webster their solid selves. Battle struggled a bit once going on McKay but he didnt drop his head. In a week where Howard's ability had been questioned, he showed that he is good at what he does with how he contain Mckay in the first half.

- Shattered for Clark. He just cant get a good run at it.

- 19 tackles for Steele in his two games returning early form shoulder surgery. What a star. Crouch and Ross both good. Jones' best game of the year - he didnt have crazy numbers but just looked more like himself this week. We can end the 'Is Gresh a midfielder' discussion. He is.

- NWM's first half was incredible. Some of the flashy things he did was great but what impressed me most was the improvement in his defensive running/mind set from the Essendon game. And Windy's last 10 minutes were enormous from a young kid.


Bring on Fremantle.

 

[Mowman]

He's a bit like Mason Wood to me. He looked like he might be a very good player at times but overall he's disappointing. Kids like Naz and Windhager don't offer the stable baseline but you can see they bring energy, speed and bravado. I reckon Jack needs to improve in the next 12 months of he could easily be playing VFL most weeks. He's good enough for now but for us to improve he needs to be slowly phased out. He's the safe option but that only appeals for so long.

He gets games because he was pick 3 if he was pick 60 he wouldn't be getting games, like you said he will be phased out over the next 12 to 18 months
Nas & Windy already offer more

 

[phantom13]

Carlton lost the game we didn't win it? WTF is this s**t?
We led at every change and kicked the last 4.
Not enough love for the skipper, sacrificed his game to blanket Cripps

It showed that in the last when they started blocking purely for Cripps at clearance (making it 3 v 1 on steele at every centre clearance) he started to almost win them the game.

 

[The Boar]

Great effort got the job done, who would have guessed!!

Fantastic to see King follow up ground balls and run to pressure the ball carrier, made a huge impact!

NAS and Windhager outstanding in their contests all night, some bright futures there!

On Pixel 4a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mowman]

morningbrown

How you going old mate ?

Not trying to stir s**t, just coming with some context.

Richmond and Collingwood and both above you and are finals bound. Both games almost lost by a kick or two.

The Freo win was our best for the year and that was without a functioning back line.

And you couldn't beat Essendon so...



Bad luck pus nuts

 

[BigPowerForward]

Another Carlton supporter gripe. "Once again Stkilda saved their one good game of the year (their Grand Final) for us". Of the 4 teams that have beaten Carlton this year, we've beaten 3 of them... but yeah right, we've only had one good game! If we played to our potential it was always going to be a competitive game and that's the way it turned out

 

[Diehard Saint]

Finally watching the replay.
We’re 2.4 in set shots in the first quarter and Carlton have the chutzpah to say they’d have won if they’d kicked better.
We could have almost had an unassailable lead if we’d kicked straight.

I didn’t hear it last night, but interesting to hear BT say that our game plan n WA against the Eagles has also been designated as a rest game for Ryder.

 

[gringo2011]

Watch the replay Carlton got given plenty

And the Butler free kick FMD #blatantcheating

Looked like they had an OOTF that was paid as a mark too. A few really bizarre ones IMO. Even when they gave us free kicks they gave it when we'd already marked the ball and that ridiculous goal review that gave them time to reset when the guy had a perfect view of it. It was so badly umpired it was cringe. That's the primetime slot. Imagine what Sunday twilight will be like.

 

[Joffaboy]

morningbrown

How you going old mate ?

Not trying to stir s**t, just coming with some context.

Richmond and Collingwood and both above you and are finals bound. Both games almost lost by a kick or two.

The Freo win was our best for the year and that was without a functioning back line.

And you couldn't beat Essendon so...



Bad luck pus nuts

Who was this sad Kent?

Here is some context for him. We have beaten three of the top 5.

Carlton have been beaten by Saints,Tigers and Magpies in the last 5 weeks.

 

[Mowman]

Looked like they had an OOTF that was paid as a mark too. A few really bizarre ones IMO. Even when they gave us free kicks they gave it when we'd already marked the ball and that ridiculous goal review that gave them time to reset when the guy had a perfect view of it. It was so badly umpired it was cringe. That's the primetime slot. Imagine what Sunday twilight will be like.

And front on contact with Wilkie just after that

 

[Mowman]

Who was this sad Kent?

Here is some context for him. We have beaten three of the top 5.

Carlton have been beaten by Saints,Tigers and Magpies in the last 5 weeks.

He popped in the other day LOL

 

[Joffaboy]

He popped in the other day LOL

What a sad w***er.

 

[gringo2011]

If he is a seconds player we then have the best list in the afl. I don’t care what people say but he keeps getting rated on his pick number. He was good last night.

He's a GOP of course he was good, he's just going to lose his spot if that's all he's got because others will pass him by. He's a bit like James Aish. He's good enough but nothing special and I thought he was pretty good last night. Showed a couple of acts of urgency at least. Ran down to punch a ball through that would have been a goal and a couple of times did sprints.

His one that was frustrating was when we had the ball at CHB late in the game and he was open in heaps of space and he ran away from the spot way beyond where the kicker could reach and meant we had to find a covered player instead. It was a really weird thing to do for such an experienced player.

 

[sunny3193]

Just watched the replay, couple of takes from the game:

Having Clark, Sinclair and Hill in the backline has unlocked something, having 3 creative defenders something not a lot of clubs have, all 3 were very influential moping up the ball.

Billing’s was very good, especially in the first half.

Umpiring was very odd and looked like they guessed a few, and the guess always went Carlton’s way.

We were very strong around the footy, if we play like that we’re very hard to beat.

Bad take. I usually wait til I’m home if I’m at the ground to judge the umpiring cause it really hard at the ground, I also rarely ever say the umpiring impacted the game.

Last night was absolutely deplorable.

I did, and I disagree.
We were lucky there weren’t more awarded to Carlton, especially from our defence.

 

[Hayes4PM]

morningbrown

How you going old mate ?

Not trying to stir s**t, just coming with some context.

Richmond and Collingwood and both above you and are finals bound. Both games almost lost by a kick or two.

The Freo win was our best for the year and that was without a functioning back line.

And you couldn't beat Essendon so...



Bad luck pus nuts

Now show us the one where you are trying to stir shit

 

[Mr Pickles]

From the Carlton autopsy thread ~30 min ago... "We are on the right track, so much to look forward to. Our future is much brighter than St Kildas."

Lol, okay chief

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Old scouser mate Dave. Great Saints man, loves Everton with an all encompassing passion.

Haven't seen him for a while.
Normally he's on the Pakenham train after a night game.

 

[sunny3193]

I don’t think Carlton are better then us. Infact I see us as a side that is level with them in the wash.

I.e our good stuff is great and the bad stuff is putrid.

They give me Stkilda 04 vibes. Great top end. Lots of injuries. But can they get to a high enough level and put it together consistently?

Where as I think we are another 12 months off getting into a collingwood 2010 style side. Even contribution from a number of players. We genuinely have 3 very good to elite level talents in Owens NWM and Windhager.

The blues midfield has more star level players. But we have more stars on the outside even though it’s hard not to think Docherty or even Saad as good footballers. Hill and Sinclair in particular are just different mustard. You genuinely cannot afford to have both of them off the leash.

One area that sets us apart completely and I’m even going to say will be the difference between us achieving anything of note or falling away is the small forwards. Butler + Higgins.

Higgins has been s**t for a little bit. Still kicked a couple.

Butler just played his best game since 2020. People get annoyed because he cheats forward. THATS OKAY. That enables his creativity and speed to come to the fore. It’s only an issue when 3-4 others start cheating too. But defensively he has been brilliant for the last couple of weeks.

Lastly, Ryder is a gun. But Marshall is a star follower and I wonder when the penny will drop in terms of how we use both of them. Genuinely the split between them sees Marshall forward more and I think that doesn’t give us enough value as allowing Marshall more time Onball.

Great game of football last night. That would have been a classic finals game. I’m not buying into Carlton’s poor kicking for goal cost them,when our own poor kicking ensured it wasn’t over at Quarter time.

Genuine concerns next week on how to handle Fyfe Taberner and Lobb without Dougal.

Yes.
It is a question of degree, and that’s subjective.
I believe their forward line is better because: Mackay, Curnow and now Motlop.
Be like us having both Kings.
Midfield because: Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, then their next level.
We are not there yet, but will get closer once the kids get experience.
Hopefully, you are right and we surpass them.
It was a great game: that third quarter is probably one of the hardest fought I have seen for some time.

 

[sunny3193]

I could be wrong but I thought fans were booing Saad ,

They were making a sound like “Whoosh” every time he kicked it.
It was a measure of respect by them.

 

[sunny3193]

Watch the replay Carlton got given plenty

And the Butler free kick FMD #blatantcheating

Not disagreeing they got plenty, but they could have got more.
Watch Battle on Mackay for example.
He’s undersized and doing everything in his power to stop Harry.
If King had to put up with that, we’d be screaming.
Webb and Wilkie were also manhandling their opponents.

To counter your example, Butler looked to be in control from where I was sitting (soft free yes, but could still argue it was there), whereas play on was called when Motlop got legged.