Autopsy Round 18: Adelaide Vs St Kilda

[Miha]

I’m questioning how often we train in those conditions. We looked totally out of place. Pou trying to bounce, Henry could not pick the ball up, handball chains with a wet ball. All things that should be totally off the books on a wet day.

As Ross said they played the conditions better but do we ever practice those conditions and to be honest do we really want to given we play most of our games under the roof.

I imagine they head inside when it’s rains at training, can’t be stepping in puddles

 

[Saintbloke]

Sure the conditions were bad, but the Crows handled the ball well in inside contests, and sprinted away from us easily, and delivered well to their teammates. Either our guys rubbed grease into their hands during the game, or they just plain didn't want it enough to grab the ball hard and keep it away from their direct opponents. I was concerned about the motivation of the team overall- just played like a bunch of individuals who didn't want to get bruised.

 

[Ads734]

He should have a look at himself?
Or has he been instructed to be less impactful?

Maybe he could have a look at a younger player that found himself out of touch, went back and worked on the basics again and improved for the effort.

You think he’s not working on the basics???

Seriously. Owens is finding it hard because he’s playing in one of the more dysfunctional forward lines in the league. He windy and ply are some of our best trainers.

I think we need to make his role a little bit easier tbh. Mid forward especially without King and very small times in the middle is bloody tough.lets get him back tackling.

He’s trying just not hitting atm.

 

[akaifu]

I have read in here a couple of times that coaches think Owens lacks midfield craft. Particularly around stoppages. They are training him, but it’s obviously slow going.

So where do you play him? Forward is hard when you’re out of form. Plenty of work required to develop him further. He’ll get there. Works hard and very determined.

Play him at VFL level and train him as a midfielder. Pou Owens Lalor is gonna be our version of Rozee Butters JHF

 

[Ads734]

Who do you reckon is most responsible for sorting out the Phillipou form issue? Phillipou or Lyon?
I can help you out, it's the player.

The coaching team can give all the best advice, any number of hard conversations but the improvement can only be brought about by the player.

If his form is a travesty, then most of the responsibility for that lies with him.

Popping him in the middle doesn't fix it.

If Pou had stayed in the AFL team he wouldn’t have had this run of form. Who controls that?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Did you watch last weeks post-game press conference? Ross isn't interested in throwing the remaining games away.

We aren't going to give a pity game to someone who struggles to touch the ball in the VFL most weeks.

Maybe. I don't take pressers on face value though.

 

[Sainttony]

Owens problem is he is fumbling and not one grabbing marks. He has always been a bit likely to do that but worse this season. Training, practice and getting confidence from that will help. Sending him back might make it worse as VFL can be such a messy game without any time to make solid grabs.

 

[Saintbloke]

Who do you reckon is most responsible for sorting out the Phillipou form issue? Phillipou or Lyon?
I can help you out, it's the player.

The coaching team can give all the best advice, any number of hard conversations but the improvement can only be brought about by the player.

If his form is a travesty, then most of the responsibility for that lies with him.

Popping him in the middle doesn't fix it.

There's a reason why head coaches in professional sport get paid a huge amount of money, and it's not to stand around and wait for a player to work things out. It's about fast-tracking results and pushing players hard to improve, and to analyse with his support team on how players are progressing and what actions to take to achieve better results... amongst a myriad of other functions as coach. Imagine standing beside a Ferrari and waiting for it to start itself and drive off and win a race.

 

[MrFoster]

Sure the conditions were bad, but the Crows handled the ball well in inside contests, and sprinted away from us easily, and delivered well to their teammates. Either our guys rubbed grease into their hands during the game, or they just plain didn't want it enough to grab the ball hard and keep it away from their direct opponents. I was concerned about the motivation of the team overall- just played like a bunch of individuals who didn't want to get bruised.

It’s about capability, not intent.. If you can’t even handle the ball cleanly under perfect condition at Marvel, you’re going to struggle in the wet. The current state of our midfield = Very poor. We have to address this off season, through drafting and trade.

 

[Cairnsman]

It's absolutely gut wrenching B&B.

In your words heart breaking.

Mitch was one guy that I was looking foward to watching this season with huge anticipation after his form last year.

And.......

After watching him take those 2 "hangers" in the 150th game against the Bombers and then backing it up with THAT game against the Suns the following week.....I thought the sky was the limit.

I still do.

I thought..."Daicos who"

And THAT goal on the run in the link you posted.....I've watched that about 100 times....lol.


We've seen what he can do.....you just don't lose your ability....you lose your confidence or whatever else for a host of reasons.

I'm extremely confident that we'll see him back to his best in 2025.

Very common thing happening to Mitch, the opposition put more work into him because of the interest he created with his 2023 performances, if he's on he can win us games so it stands to reason the opposition puts work into taking his strengths away from us.

Some players can't go to that next level to work through the extra attention, "second year blues". I'm not saying he can't go to the next level, but I believe that's what the coaches are managing for Mitch.

Hes still an ok contributor from a team perspective in parches but hopefully next year is better for him.

 

[MrFoster]

Very common thing happening to Mitch, the opposition put more work into him because of the interest he created with his 2023 performances, if he's on he can win us games so it stands to reason the opposition puts work into taking his strengths away from us.

Some players can't go to that next level to work through the extra attention, "second year blues". I'm not saying he can't go to the next level, but I believe that's what the coaches are managing for Mitch.

Hes still an ok contributor from a team perspective in parches but hopefully next year is better for him.

Owens is not a mid, never had been in the juniors. He was a small forward. After a growth spurt, played in the last year of under 18s as a wingman that can push forward. Just because he has the physical attribute, doesn’t mean he can turn into Bont.. his skills are messy at best and the midfield craft is just not there at the moment, wishing him to be something he is not at this stage is setting him up to fail.

Windhager for example played mid in juniors. Does that mean Owen won’t be a mid in the future? no, just means he is not there at the moment. Not even close.

Owens poor form in the forward line is a by-product of our poor midfield. No one in our forward line apart from Higgins are performing.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

or young gun mids plus a gun fa this year and we’ll be contending for a decade.

 

[gringo2011]

Pou with two top 3 for us in a row is huge.

Hunts as always takes time after an injury to really click. We forget how interrupted he’s been.

I think Clark went at 42% DE or something. He was okay but he wasn't great.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m questioning how often we train in those conditions. We looked totally out of place. Pou trying to bounce, Henry could not pick the ball up, handball chains with a wet ball. All things that should be totally off the books on a wet day.

As Ross said they played the conditions better but do we ever practice those conditions and to be honest do we really want to given we play most of our games under the roof.

I think we give our players an extra day off. Must be the day they train skills because Adelaide seemed to get better in the wet and we looked like we soaped the ball.

 

[malevu]

At season end when we do our own reviews the common threads will be crap midfield, dysfunctional forward line, defensive game style, losing too many close games, a tough draw, early season injuries, lack of a decent second ruck etc.
But I could add another. I was bullish about Owens after last year, expecting he'd be vying with King as the best player on our list by the end of this season. As it's panned out King has had a nightmare year. Form, injuries and suspension have made us question just how much we are going to get out of him. Now many are understandably calling for Owens to be dropped to the VFL. Neither player has really fired a shot all year.

Right now neither player would rate in our best 10 based on their output this year. Who would've thought that at the start of the year? In hindsight if we'd known that was coming, most of us would've predicted us to finish exactly where we are on the ladder.

When you're light on for A grade talent you can't have the few you have fall off a cliff.

 

[TheJackal]

Unpopular opinion no doubt, but there's been moments this year (whilst on ball) where Mitchito has found himself down back. I honestly think he is a natural back there, if Battle left, there is his replacement right there.

 

[gringo2011]

Play him at VFL level and train him as a midfielder. Pou Owens Lalor is gonna be our version of Rozee Butters JHF

If Owens makes it as a mid it might be a bit too brute force with Lalor. Jagga or Draper might be a bit more of something different. Lalor doesn't do it for me without seeing todays match but as far as a type goes he looks like what we are missing- a big brute extractor who kicks goals. I guess it depends on how confident they are that Owens becomes a mid. Dalrymple needs to earn his keep this year and list managers need to plan our future list.

 

[gringo2011]

Unpopular opinion no doubt, but there's been moments this year (whilst on ball) where Mitchito has found himself down back. I honestly think he is a natural back there, if Battle left, there is his replacement right there.

When he drops back he often turns over kicks. He looks ideal otherwise. They'd need to get his field kicking cleaned up.

 

[Saints43]

You think he’s not working on the basics???

Seriously. Owens is finding it hard because he’s playing in one of the more dysfunctional forward lines in the league. He windy and ply are some of our best trainers.

I think we need to make his role a little bit easier tbh. Mid forward especially without King and very small times in the middle is bloody tough.lets get him back tackling.

He’s trying just not hitting atm.

The basics are things like picking up the ball cleanly.
I don't think he's going all that badly.
I'm not the one that called his situation "a travesty"

But, like every player, improvement is mostly their own responsibility. He's not getting generally different advice from when he was performing at a higher level under the same coaches I'd imagine.

 

[akaifu]

If Owens makes it as a mid it might be a bit too brute force with Lalor. Jagga or Draper might be a bit more of something different. Lalor doesn't do it for me without seeing todays match but as far as a type goes he looks like what we are missing- a big brute extractor who kicks goals. I guess it depends on how confident they are that Owens becomes a mid. Dalrymple needs to earn his keep this year and list managers need to plan our future list.

Owens and Lalor rotate between midfield and forward line. Also bench. Phillipou the constant midfielder. Windy, Jagga/Draper, Dow to top off the rotation

 

[Saints43]

If Pou had stayed in the AFL team he wouldn’t have had this run of form. Who controls that?

Phillipou was sent to Sandy twice. Once brought back too early, and once offered the opportunity to come back earlier but he chose to continue with the program at Sandy.

Do you reckon the coaches just walk up to a player on certain Mondays and say "You're dropped"?

The coaching team are a management layer and would be providing constant communication about performance, expectations etc.
It seems simplistic to say "Who controls that?"
Every party has agency.

 

[TheJackal]

When he drops back he often turns over kicks. He looks ideal otherwise. They'd need to get his field kicking cleaned up.

He's worked super hard and cleaned up his goal kicking so it's not impossible. I just hope he makes it to that upper tier.

Easy to forget he is still just 21 who we got at pick 33. He's trending ahead of where he should be so hopefully we just allow him to progress organically and not put too many expectations on him.

 

[Ads734]

The basics are things like picking up the ball cleanly.
I don't think he's going all that badly.
I'm not the one that called his situation "a travesty"

But, like every player, improvement is mostly their own responsibility. He's not getting generally different advice from when he was performing at a higher level under the same coaches I'd imagine.

I understand but I hate ideas that he’s ‘not working on the basics’ or got ahead of himself.
I think it’s also symptomatic of our team. We’ve struggled to score often and hes playing one of the hardest roles footy.

 

[Ads734]

The basics are things like picking up the ball cleanly.
I don't think he's going all that badly.
I'm not the one that called his situation "a travesty"

But, like every player, improvement is mostly their own responsibility. He's not getting generally different advice from when he was performing at a higher level under the same coaches I'd imagine.

In that logic the performance this year is completely on the players not the coaches?

 

[beside the seaside]

Unpopular opinion no doubt, but there's been moments this year (whilst on ball) where Mitchito has found himself down back. I honestly think he is a natural back there, if Battle left, there is his replacement right there.

You're probably right but if Caminiti and Keeler are already playing there we'll have no forwards left.