Toast Round 2 = Collingwood 100-58 Adelaide

[ClaytonM]

In comparison to Grundys output since 2020 - I’d say his first two games in 2022 have been above his average output.

It’s almost like people expect him to have stat lines like 60 hit outs, 30 possessions and 4 goals a game. Max gawn has hardly set the world on fire this year either.

It ain’t Grundys fault Collingwood (Eddie and Co) paid so much for him and blew our salary cap to kingdom come for the next 2-3 years. It ain’t Grundys fault our former Admin chose a list management strategy that would end up seeing the club implode by mismanaging the off loading Treloar and Stephenson.

There is no way Adelaide would have given us O’Reilly for him. O’Reilly came of age in 2019, and followed up in 2020, and was cheap as chips so any chance of a deal for Grundy (when they themselves would have had to pay top dollar) just wouldn’t happen.

While a round 1 pick and O’Rielly may well seem like amazing value… the fact is that’s a complete fantasy.

In reality, Grundy was a restricted free agent. Which means Adelaide or any other club could have offered him say 10 years for $900k a year - if we don’t match it we lose him to that other club.

If we let Grundy walk as a RFA, the best we would have got for him walking would have been a compensation pick allocated by the AFL at the end of round 1 of the draft.

Adelaide or any other club that sign a RFA don’t need to trade picks or players to us. They just offer more money. So this idea we’d get O’Reilly or simply a good return for Grundy is not accurate.

In his first two games of the year - O’Rielly is not setting the world on fire. Statistically it’s his worst year since before 2019. Brodie has improved on his previous years output - but obviously not near his absolute peak. He does certainly appear more “invested” in the game and with his teammates though which is a huge positive.

While I do agree we had to pay overs for Grundy, I certainly don’t blame him for out strategising out previous Admin who seemed hell bent on leveraging our long term sustainability for short term success and winning a flag at all costs to justify the albatross around our neck that was the MM-NB succession plan.

Now, if a team shows interest in Grundy at the end of the season - then yeah I’d consider that trade.

But let’s face it, again because of the previous Admins decisions, no club will take Grundys contract on. We’d have to pay half his salary and might get lucky enough to get 2 x 2nd round picks in return.

Only person or people you should be angry about the Grundy deal is the previous president (… thanks Ed), board and General Manager of Football that approved the contract offer.

You can't obsolve Grundy of all responsibility here. He would be aware that his wage demands would result in salary cap pressure at best, us losing players at worst.

He would have been aware of the possible implications of his salary demands.

 

[ClaytonM]

Spot On.

Don't Blame Grundy as he did what anyone else did.

Blame Eddie/Guy for Offering so much so Quickly

Not everyone else does. Some just sign on with minimum fuss and reasonable wage acknowledging the realities of the salary cap.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Not everyone else does. Some just sign on with minimum fuss and reasonable wage acknowledging the realities of the salary cap.

Or we think they sign on with a minimum fuss and at a reasonable wage because their negotiations aren’t played out via media guesstimates and inflated salary announcements.

 

[Pie eyed]

Not everyone else does. Some just sign on with minimum fuss and reasonable wage acknowledging the realities of the salary cap.

You need to stop sooking about the amount (you do not know) in someone elses pay packet.
If you really want to have a whinge direct all your ire at the AFL and the salary cap and the equalisation scheme, which both amount to nothing but match fixing.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Can’t agree here unfortunately.

Grundy has pulled a Travis Cloke on us (so far) and completely lowered his quality/output since bending us over a barrel for a deal, that had we not done it, could have:

• Kept Treloar at the Club
• Kept Stephenson at the club
• Got us the number 1 pick from Adeaide
• Got us O’Reilly from Adelaide

You telling me that right now you wouldn’t take all of the above for Grundy?

I certainly would

WOW, so you disagree because you have a hypothetical you believe a better outcome.

Firstly, no guarantee O’Brien would agree to a trade to Collingwood.

Secondly, happy to see Treloar and Stevo ply their trade elsewhere. Neither were worth the coin they were purported to be going to earn.

Lastly, the number 1 pick. Great to have them but certainly no guarantee you’ll recruit a long term A grade player. Just as easily end up with a Patty McCartin or Josh Schache as a Sam Walsh.

I’m aware we had options but happy to have signed Grundy for unders.

 

[Mollythedolly]

In comparison to Grundys output since 2020 - I’d say his first two games in 2022 have been above his average output.

It’s almost like people expect him to have stat lines like 60 hit outs, 30 possessions and 4 goals a game. Max gawn has hardly set the world on fire this year either.

It ain’t Grundys fault Collingwood (Eddie and Co) paid so much for him and blew our salary cap to kingdom come for the next 2-3 years. It ain’t Grundys fault our former Admin chose a list management strategy that would end up seeing the club implode by mismanaging the off loading Treloar and Stephenson.

There is no way Adelaide would have given us O’Reilly for him. O’Reilly came of age in 2019, and followed up in 2020, and was cheap as chips so any chance of a deal for Grundy (when they themselves would have had to pay top dollar) just wouldn’t happen.

While a round 1 pick and O’Rielly may well seem like amazing value… the fact is that’s a complete fantasy.

In reality, Grundy was a restricted free agent. Which means Adelaide or any other club could have offered him say 10 years for $900k a year - if we don’t match it we lose him to that other club.

If we let Grundy walk as a RFA, the best we would have got for him walking would have been a compensation pick allocated by the AFL at the end of round 1 of the draft.

Adelaide or any other club that sign a RFA don’t need to trade picks or players to us. They just offer more money. So this idea we’d get O’Reilly or simply a good return for Grundy is not accurate.

In his first two games of the year - O’Rielly is not setting the world on fire. Statistically it’s his worst year since before 2019. Brodie has improved on his previous years output - but obviously not near his absolute peak. He does certainly appear more “invested” in the game and with his teammates though which is a huge positive.

While I do agree we had to pay overs for Grundy, I certainly don’t blame him for out strategising out previous Admin who seemed hell bent on leveraging our long term sustainability for short term success and winning a flag at all costs to justify the albatross around our neck that was the MM-NB succession plan.

Now, if a team shows interest in Grundy at the end of the season - then yeah I’d consider that trade.

But let’s face it, again because of the previous Admins decisions, no club will take Grundys contract on. We’d have to pay half his salary and might get lucky enough to get 2 x 2nd round picks in return.

Only person or people you should be angry about the Grundy deal is the previous president (… thanks Ed), board and General Manager of Football that approved the contract offer.

Adelaide reportedly offered well north of $1m a year for 5 years (similar total money to his deal with us).

FA compo for a deal like that at a minimum would be at 1st round immediately after our nominal 1st round pick (pick 26 as it transpired in 2020) with the AFL having the discretion to either elevate or reduce should that be deemed necessary.

 

[Mollythedolly]

(Common) Cents were removed from circulation around 1992.
Pennies haven’t been around since 1966.

Got an old cake tin full of both.

 

[Mollythedolly]

You can't obsolve Grundy of all responsibility here. He would be aware that his wage demands would result in salary cap pressure at best, us losing players at worst.

He would have been aware of the possible implications of his salary demands.

I’m not sure anyone has actually tried to absolve Grundy here or suggested he was ignorant of the implications.

But I also don’t think it’s as bad as some suggest. Be nice to have his actual salary per year to better discuss that. Sadly we don’t so people will draw their own conclusions. I’m in the $900-950k (pre-Covid) camp and I’m happy for him to get that.

 

[sr36]

(Common) Cents were removed from circulation around 1992.
Pennies haven’t been around since 1966.

Legally, you can still use 1 and 2 cent coins. They haven't stopped being legal tender. Not sure how it would go in reality.

 

[Apex36]

Adelaide reportedly offered well north of $1m a year for 5 years (similar total money to his deal with us).

FA compo for a deal like that at a minimum would be at 1st round immediately after our nominal 1st round pick (pick 26 as it transpired in 2020) with the AFL having the discretion to either elevate or reduce should that be deemed necessary.

Our first pick in 2020 was 17 after academy and FS selections, so Grundy compo would have been pick 18. Not particularly good tbh, and would likely have meant we’d be shafted either way, because he was happy to stay if we matched. Still better than 26 though, not sure how you came to that number.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Our first pick in 2020 was 17 after academy and FS selections, so Grundy compo would have been pick 18. Not particularly good tbh, and would likely have meant we’d be shafted either way, because he was happy to stay if we matched. Still better than 26 though, not sure how you came to that number.

What happens when you quickly check Wiki. But actually, neither of us are right. Pick 17 (Henry) was the pick we got from the Doggies. Ours would have been pick 19 which we used on Macrae.

 

[sideswipe]

What happens when you quickly check Wiki. But actually, neither of us are right. Pick 17 (Henry) was the pick we got from the Doggies. Ours would have been pick 19 which we used on Macrae.

I am no expert on this, but I thought the compensation was based on the finishing position of the team receiving the compensation, not their draft position - as the latter may be affected by things like, I dunno, previous dumb trades of future picks by clubs?

So if Brodie left as a free agent at the end of 2020 on a big deal, the starting position for our compo would have been at pick 11, as we finished 8th, which before trades would have given our first pick at 10?

Which would have been pushed out by maybe 6 spots given Next Gen, priority, Academy and compo picks? So the FA compo would have landed at 17, then our 17 would have been pushed out to 18?

 

[NMBB]

I am no expert on this, but I thought the compensation was based on the finishing position of the team receiving the compensation, not their draft position - as the latter may be affected by things like, I dunno, previous dumb trades of future picks by clubs?

So if Brodie left as a free agent at the end of 2020 on a big deal, the starting position for our compo would have been at pick 11, as we finished 8th, which before trades would have given our first pick at 10?

Which would have been pushed out by maybe 6 spots given Next Gen, priority, Academy and compo picks? So the FA compo would have landed at 17, then our 17 would have been pushed out to 18?

Executive summary please - or is there a book I can read - "AFL Draft Rules for Dummies"?

 

[slugger01]

Legally, you can still use 1 and 2 cent coins. They haven't stopped being legal tender. Not sure how it would go in reality.

Are you sure?
I think the bank will accept them, but I don’t think I can go to Coles and pay with 1 and 2 cent coins…
Maybe some googling is needed, but I can’t be bothered…

 

[sr36]

Are you sure?
I think the bank will accept them, but I don’t think I can go to Coles and pay with 1 and 2 cent coins…
Maybe some googling is needed, but I can’t be bothered…

I'm in the can't be bothered category too. Someone told me that - could have been shite.

 

[NMBB]

I'm in the can't be bothered category too. Someone told me that - could have been shite.

Must have been off BF - shite just not tolerated here.

 

[sideswipe]

Executive summary please - or is there a book I can read - "AFL Draft Rules for Dummies"?

Actually, you would be after AFL Player Movement Rules for Dummies. The Draft Rules covers a different area.

I was almost tempted to write to Mick Gleeson last week to correct his use of "Draft Tampering" when discussing Daniher's contract extension. He should have been using "Player Movement Rules Tampering".

 

[TradeDraft]

WOW, so you disagree because you have a hypothetical you believe a better outcome.

Firstly, no guarantee O’Brien would agree to a trade to Collingwood.

Secondly, happy to see Treloar and Stevo ply their trade elsewhere. Neither were worth the coin they were purported to be going to earn.

Lastly, the number 1 pick. Great to have them but certainly no guarantee you’ll recruit a long term A grade player. Just as easily end up with a Patty McCartin or Josh Schache as a Sam Walsh.

I’m aware we had options but happy to have signed Grundy for unders.

Stepho was before he was Stupid and Bet on Collingwood Games

 

[NMBB]

Actually, you would be after AFL Player Movement Rules for Dummies. The Draft Rules covers a different area.

I was almost tempted to write to Mick Gleeson last week to correct his use of "Draft Tampering" when discussing Daniher's contract extension. He should have been using "Player Movement Rules Tampering".

Draft, rules, cheat, f#ckn - all good Wordle start words .

PS - Wordle accepts "f*cks" - well I never

 

[Apex36]

I am no expert on this, but I thought the compensation was based on the finishing position of the team receiving the compensation, not their draft position - as the latter may be affected by things like, I dunno, previous dumb trades of future picks by clubs?

So if Brodie left as a free agent at the end of 2020 on a big deal, the starting position for our compo would have been at pick 11, as we finished 8th, which before trades would have given our first pick at 10?

Which would have been pushed out by maybe 6 spots given Next Gen, priority, Academy and compo picks? So the FA compo would have landed at 17, then our 17 would have been pushed out to 18?

It’s based on finishing position, but your compo pick is the next pick after where your finishing position/nominal pick is or would have been.
So the compo pick would have been 20, since our original pick was pushed out to 19 by academy bids and GC’s AFL sponsored rort pick which they traded to Geelong, who then traded it to GWS iirc.

Edited for accuracy sideswipe

 

[sideswipe]

It’s based on finishing position, but your compo pick is the next pick after where your finishing position/nominal pick is or would have been.
So the compo pick would have been 18.

Gotcha

 

[ClaytonM]

You need to stop sooking about the amount (you do not know) in someone elses pay packet.
If you really want to have a whinge direct all your ire at the AFL and the salary cap and the equalisation scheme, which both amount to nothing but match fixing.

I am happy with those. Last thing I want is the EPL. Just takes a billionaire to fund his vanity project and too bad for everyone else.

 

[ClaytonM]

I’m not sure anyone has actually tried to absolve Grundy here or suggested he was ignorant of the implications.

But I also don’t think it’s as bad as some suggest. Be nice to have his actual salary per year to better discuss that. Sadly we don’t so people will draw their own conclusions. I’m in the $900-950k (pre-Covid) camp and I’m happy for him to get that.

No some were.

 

[Anzacday]

Got an old cake tin full of both.

Christmas pudding?

 

[jonbe54]

There's been no word that Grundy has been carrying an injury so there really is only a couple of facts known.

He signed a monster deal after years of taking unders.

Directly after signing that monster deal his form dropped away dramatically.

The logical conclusion is that he relaxed - even if only subconsciously.

The bottom line is the club made an error in the length of his contract.