Autopsy Round 20, 2022: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

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I reckon Sharman was a likely type in the forward line as well. He'll be on a wing next and when he's s**t we'll put him back in the forward line and everyone will think Ratts is a master coach.

King is obviously a blue chip prospect. I still think a good forwards coach would have him kicking another 20 goals a year with some leading patterns. His one lead last night made him look super dangerous. They must think that him being stagnant is a strategy that brings others into the game but it isn't.

Hanners was very good and glad he got through, most of us wanted Owens in so in the end everyone was happy, I reckon he justified wanting him in as well. He added so much energy and his quick thinking and ball handling look very exciting.

Clark was giving me a heart condition in the first half. I don't think he hit a single target but his ability to gather the ball and win a close in contest are pretty special and remind us of why his ceiling is high.

Sinclair is elite now, they tried to tag him early but he got off the chain anyway. I thought Hill was really disappointing, possibly they moved the tag onto him though.

That backline is very organised under a good backs coach. Battle is a weapon as third tall back. I don't think people have realised how good his season has been. He was struggling to be in the best 22 last year, in player ratings he's been sitting just inside the top 100 players, dropped to 101 after yesterday. That makes him the 7th highest rated player at the Saints.

Crouch had massive numbers last night but in the first quarter he did a few dumb selfish things. That said he has now moved to 5th overall in the AFL in player stats and jumped Sincs. To put it in perspective he's on 2004 ratings points, Clayton Oliver is on 2009 and sitting just above him. Jackson Macrae is underneath him. Sincs straight after him. Two top 10 players. Steele on averages is 3rd in the comp(still 37 overall despite missing a lot of footy). Marshall 47. Ross 51, Gresham 73. These aren't opinions, these are stats based.

It would be our most concentrated amount of quality since Ross Lyon was coaching. That's why it's mostly psychological and poor coaching holding us back. There aren't weak links. Guys like Membrey and Webster etc are still excellent players and we don't have holes, even the kids coming in look good. If we don't start well next year I'd put in a another coach and I'd be chasing some assistants that if the s**t hits the fans can move into the role.

Moving Sharman back has been a superb move by the coaches. Not only has it helped the backline in Howard's absence but it will be great for his development. He's playing some of the best footy of his extremely short career which can't be a bad thing.

I think the long-term future will be forward but who knows? Battle was picked up as a forward but plays his best footy back.

I think our major issue in the forward line is lack of another big to help King. The idea that he should be kicking 70 is harsh, I don't really know why he cops it so much, not only from supporters but the commentators seem to always focus on what he should be doing. It's really strange. I just had a look at Hawkins career stats, Max is tracking far better. To be on track to kick 50 in his third season is nuts. I will say it again, he is the least of our worries. We need to get someone to help him. De Goey would be a great get but I just can't see Collingwood letting him go. Surely he re-signs. The other is Jack Hayes but there's a risk in putting all our eggs in that basket because he's only played a handful of albeit promising games and coming off an ACL. The other is Sharman but again it's a risk. Someone mentioned Lobb, jeez he would be a good get for us I think.

An area that I think the coaches have got it wrong is the rucks. We are seeing what Marshall can do now, he has been wasted as a forward for a few years now in my opinion. He is a dominant ruckman who can destroy his opponent. He absolutely obliterated McEvoy who is no slouch. If we are to somehow make the finals this year then Marshall has a big part to play.

Now you say we don't have holes, but looking at the team going into this week I thought there were holes everywhere. I guess we see things differently in that regard. But good signs again from Owens and Windy.
 
Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Geelong, Freo, Bulldogs, Richmond and Carlton, even Essendon are at least equal

Don't want to hear your usual.two page straw man narrative on how great we are in the mids and its all the coaching. We are a good even workmanlike midfield who only just hang on v the best. Windy and Owens are exciting prospects but developing. Gres is always injured, Hunter isn't a mid.

We need an explosive mid to take us into a top 5 mid combo. DeGoey would be that player.
I think you’re currently right but Owen’s and Windy take us there in 4 years but next year if they can step up majorly we’ve seen from Collingwood and Sydney that first/second year players can definitely be extremely impactful.
 

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Was good to see our leaders, including Hannebery (3 handballs, 0 tackles, 0 pressure acts) stand tall in the last quarter to halt Hawthorn’s avalanche of momentu… oh nevermind

Great game from Marshall, Crouch, Steele, and for 3 quarters - Hannebery. Didn’t like the selfishness of Max at times. Great pressure from Longy & Wood. Paton was a bit of good & bad.

Got the win. Now to focus on not having our pants pulled down by Geelong next week
 
Your obsession with shitting on Billings unnecessarily is just sad at this point.

The guy played well after he returned and is now out injured. You might feel tough for doing so or it’s just a poor attempt at being funny and get some cheap likes from a certain crowd. Either way, it just pathetic.
Each to their own l suppose.

I thought he played very poorly and actually got dropped for it.

Then after getting back in for 5 consecutive we went 1-4

Then as soon as he's gone again we win 2-0

Maybe we just value different things. It's not worth getting upset about.
 
Each to their own l suppose.

I thought he played very poorly and actually got dropped for it.

Then after getting back in for 5 consecutive we went 1-4

Then as soon as he's gone again we win 2-0

Maybe we just value different things. It's not worth getting upset about.
Billings has become an expendable GOP. Mind you, he had a bad run with his hammy over preseason so even I, as one of his biggest critics, can see that his fitness level has probably been pretty below par over the course of this season
 
Kingy, the only thing stopping him leading deeper into pockets was the fence no wonder he kicked 2.5
2.5 and a couple more didn’t make it.

4th Q, when he burnt longy and kicked a behind,
Wood was running down the wing and king was leading towards the point where the arc meets the boundary.
It doesn’t appear from tv angle too much, but I was on wing there behind woods POV-
There was a lot of space goal side of max and wood tried to point him there but max ignored him and demanded it in the corner.

So much talent King but just needs to trust his teammates a bit more and work on finding space instead of demanding it where he is.

Amazing he’s 21 and we think he’s had a shocker when he’s kicked 2.5, 11 score involvements, 18 touches (10 contested) and 7 marks.

Amazing that he clearly has room for improvement.
 
6 options, nearly all of them completely open. Can you guess which one he chose? Scroll down for the answer.


View attachment 1460807


If you answered, "None. He bombed long to Butler against two defenders", then congratulations, you win the "St Kilda Footy of the Last Decade Award" 🏅
You could probably come up with a hundred of those since Ratten started. They’re clearly being instructed to not kick to the area where it’s a guaranteed score if you turn it over. Even Membrey went long to a bunch of short people in the square at times. No doubt it’s what they’re being told to do.
 
Was good to see our leaders, including Hannebery (3 handballs, 0 tackles, 0 pressure acts) stand tall in the last quarter to halt Hawthorn’s avalanche of momentu… oh nevermind

Great game from Marshall, Crouch, Steele, and for 3 quarters - Hannebery. Didn’t like the selfishness of Max at times. Great pressure from Longy & Wood. Paton was a bit of good & bad.

Got the win. Now to focus on not having our pants pulled down by Geelong next week
Seriously having a dig at Hannebery running out of steam?
Set the tone for 3 quarters and ran out of gas.
First game of AFL in a year.

If we could have capitalised on the scoreboard from his work early he could have sat on the bench for the last.
 
It’s exactly this. King at times has an incredibly short run up, and it’s these ones he fluffs. He gets too close to the mark and so he kicks through the ball more to lift it higher, decreasing his accuracy. He needs to take a page from Roma and measure it out each time.
It’s very strange for a guy who can easily kick 60m. He seems to make it up on the spot of what his run up will be. I don’t understand how the coaches aren’t telling him to get a routine, take your time and if you spin the ball in your run up you’re dropped.
 

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Percentage doesn’t matter
The way Hanners sent the ball inside 50 made the forward move to the right spots. We need more of that. I think that forward line entry and structure is 90% of our issues and the only thing holding us back. We should chase the best forward line coach we can get.

I was listening to JUH talking about Bevo and his coaching. He said he encourages the players to play to their strengths and encourages him to fly at anything that goes near him. He sounds really big on player empowerment and putting joy in their game. We look constipated and constrained like there is a weight on the players where they are scared of making mistakes. It looks like a joyless brand under Ratts.
Same was said during the Richo’s days… If you’re asked to do things on the footy field, chase/tackle like crazy but opposition still scores easily, fly for long bombs you know you won’t mark it; run to spots where there’s so much congestion you can’t get any clean ball apart from a hack kick.. all these leads to a scrappy and dull game…

You spent all of the energy, and only kick goals based on luck and opposition turnovers.. eventually you’ll get disheartened..
 
Honestly if the players stopped trying because of that then we should give up.

I find it amazing how we constantly blame Max.

It's not about trying.

You can try your hardest and still not have momentum.

Modern footy is all about momentum, you hear a thousand times a game.

Max had a number of chances half way through that last quarter to absolutely break them. He went the Bailey Fritsch route and tried to be the lone hero in a number of moments. With a number of team mates absolutely filthy with him.

This shifted momentum. Things just started going right for the Hawks. We never stopped trying.

If Max hands that ball to Wood straight away, he basically runs in to goal.

Small things like that change the momentum. It gave them a sniff when there shouldn't have been.

I'm happy with the 4 points.
But I can be critical of decisions made on field by the players.
 
Moving Sharman back has been a superb move by the coaches. Not only has it helped the backline in Howard's absence but it will be great for his development. He's playing some of the best footy of his extremely short career which can't be a bad thing.

I think the long-term future will be forward but who knows? Battle was picked up as a forward but plays his best footy back.

I think our major issue in the forward line is lack of another big to help King. The idea that he should be kicking 70 is harsh, I don't really know why he cops it so much, not only from supporters but the commentators seem to always focus on what he should be doing. It's really strange. I just had a look at Hawkins career stats, Max is tracking far better. To be on track to kick 50 in his third season is nuts. I will say it again, he is the least of our worries. We need to get someone to help him. De Goey would be a great get but I just can't see Collingwood letting him go. Surely he re-signs. The other is Jack Hayes but there's a risk in putting all our eggs in that basket because he's only played a handful of albeit promising games and coming off an ACL. The other is Sharman but again it's a risk. Someone mentioned Lobb, jeez he would be a good get for us I think.

An area that I think the coaches have got it wrong is the rucks. We are seeing what Marshall can do now, he has been wasted as a forward for a few years now in my opinion. He is a dominant ruckman who can destroy his opponent. He absolutely obliterated McEvoy who is no slouch. If we are to somehow make the finals this year then Marshall has a big part to play.

Now you say we don't have holes, but looking at the team going into this week I thought there were holes everywhere. I guess we see things differently in that regard. But good signs again from Owens and Windy.
Each time Sharman has been given an opportunity to play an AFL game it's because we were desperate and bereft of other options to select from. He was moved out of the forward line for a reason and got a game down back because we were desperate. As soon as Howard comes back Sharman will be dropped again you'd think. He's a fair way off the pace and needs to have a really good pre season and just continue developing because he is bit of best 22 for a side that aspires to be a top 4 side.
 
Each time Sharman has been given an opportunity to play an AFL game it's because we were desperate and bereft of other options to select from. He was moved out of the forward line for a reason and got a game down back because we were desperate. As soon as Howard comes back Sharman will be dropped again you'd think. He's a fair way off the pace and needs to have a really good pre season and just continue developing because he is bit of best 22 for a side that aspires to be a top 4 side.
Did sharman bully you as a kid
 
Each time Sharman has been given an opportunity to play an AFL game it's because we were desperate and bereft of other options to select from. He was moved out of the forward line for a reason and got a game down back because we were desperate. As soon as Howard comes back Sharman will be dropped again you'd think. He's a fair way off the pace and needs to have a really good pre season and just continue developing because he is bit of best 22 for a side that aspires to be a top 4 side.
Sharman is a talent.
Only thing stopping him from holding down a tall role either end of the ground is his weight/strength.
 
He only does this to you upset you and it works
No I honestly think it’s funny that he can put coaching into nearly every post he makes. Sometimes you just need to at least have a few days enjoying the win. I’m certainly enjoying it even after a poor last quarter. And I actually did say why I thought it was funny.
 
Sharman is a talent.
Only thing stopping him from holding down a tall role either end of the ground is his weight/strength.
And the urgent need to find players who can play finals type footy in key roles, Sharman is way off the pace in that regard but who knows, he might develop into that position within a few years and clearly the club are willing to speculate by giving him a two year contract extension. If he holds his spot for next week, i.e. if Howard doesn't get up, then we will see Sharman get an opportunity to defend Hawkins, Cameron and Rohan. If he stops one or more of that lot next week then I'll be more convinced he's capable of being a finals-type key position type player.
 
And the urgent need to find players who can play finals type footy in key roles, Sharman is way off the pace in that regard but who knows, he might develop into that position within a few years and clearly the club are willing to speculate by giving him a two year contract extension. If he holds his spot for next week, i.e. if Howard doesn't get up, then we will see where Sharman get an opportunity to defend Hawkins, Cameron and Rohan. If he stops one or more of that lot next week then I'll be more convinced he's capable of being a finals type player.
One or more you reckon

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Autopsy Round 20, 2022: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

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