Autopsy Round 20, 2022: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[MrFoster]

Danger is pretty ordinary these days, he turned back the clock against Melbourne but he's only just going. That said so was Fyfe until we met them.

I think we should be setting ourselves for this one. Geelong won't be too scared of us and might be gettable with their eyes on finals and better opposition coming up. They have lost Stanley so if Marshall could play like last night we would have a decent advantage. We need our forwards to get their s**t together and Hanners is going to have to back it up.

I reckon a good coaching strategy could get them but we would need to have a huge performance. They should set this up like it's our grand final. Win this and we have a toe back in the water. Finals should be the minimum expectation still IMO.

The most important thing to address is how to get goals more efficiently and regularly.. with our current skill level, the only way is to move the ball quickly, take the game on through the middle (don’t over handball because we’re no good at it), and get it in one on one with King or Membrey leading to different spots and Higgins/Butters crumbing.

Stop the slow play unless we’re just trying to control the ball a little.

 

[EddieMurphy]

Charlie Curnow 192cm

First on the Coleman

He's the shortest KPP in the Coleman top 10, that's the exception. The trend is towards taller key position players. Coops does have a great leap al-la Naughton.

Edit: Paddy McCartin who we thought was undersized when we had him is listed at 1.95, did he grow a bit?

 

[stavro#4]

I see it a bit like Ross Lyon with Cousins. If you are expecting someone to come in and do all the work for you you're not looking at the real issues. Lobb is a ordinary. Probably realistically he's Hayes level but with a bit more height for the ruck.

De Goey has impact but he's pretty much nose to nose with Gresham. If people get frustrated with Gresham, having two should double frustration for some. I'd seriously look at Matt Crouch, having a top mid in spare like last night was a huge help.

Nothing like cousins and Ross.

There are some fair questions about the ceiling of our playing group.

You don’t ever back away from the quality of De Goey. We did that once… his name was Dustin Martin.

Cousins was seen as the player to bridge the gap between us and Geelong. Ross’s point wasn’t that we needed a cousins. We needed to commit and work harder.

This group works hard. It lacks the superstar talent. Imagine De Goey and Gresham having 40+ touches and 3+ goals between them on any given week. It’s a seriously dangerous dynamic duo.

Also takes the heat off the next wave. Who should be absolutely challenged as to game time in 23. As should Coffield and Clark.

 

[MrFoster]

The list is not good enough. If we could keep Hanners, Steele, Ross and Crouch fit with Windy, Owens as back up we are 5-8 midfield, our backs are organised but under sized and our forwards have a young still developing full forward, a second key who is undersized but very good, and a couple of smalls who cheat to get Joe the gooses (although Butlers pressure is invaluable).
Pressure is the absolute minimum and we cracked in until we ran out of legs. Watching Geelong v Bulldogs when the pressure was through the roof the skills were no better than our game.

Our gameplan is not based on dour. It is to use Hill and Sinclair to launch through the centre, using pressure turnover, if we aren't pressuring, this breaks down and we look static.
We don't bring pressure we don't execute our gameplan properly. And who is that on? Coaches can't pressure. Dour my fat arse. What rubbish.

Against good sides who can handle the pressure/break tackles/break zones, then our pressure becomes a achilles, because once the opposition get past our zone defence, they will have free men streaming forward to kick an easy score.

 

[MrFoster]

Billings has become an expendable GOP. Mind you, he had a bad run with his hammy over preseason so even I, as one of his biggest critics, can see that his fitness level has probably been pretty below par over the course of this season

The issue with Billings is little or no impact.. as a forward, his job is kicking goals or setting them up, doesn’t do either nearly enough.. I would say first year players Owens and Winghager has more impact that Billings..

 

[aussierulesrules]

For all the lack of excitement or happiness about how we’re going, or where we’re at, there’s one thing I reckon is worth remembering:

We’re currently 11-8.

Now this year that has you just inside the 8, but last year 11 wins had you playing finals, and we’re there with 3 weeks left, and normally being 11-8 you’d have a bit of a cushion going into the last 3 rounds.

It’s been easier to bank wins across the board this year, because there have been two terrible teams, but we’ve only played them once each (with one of them being interstate, when that team was a lot more competitive than earlier in the year), so they hasn’t helped us as much as it has some other teams.

Hawthorn are the only team outside the top 6 that we’ve played twice (or will play twice) and both times we’ve played them they were going well.

They’d won 3 in a row leading into yesterday’s game and two from 3 going into our previous game against them (with a 1 point loss to Carlton the only loss).

No wonder Ratts is a bit bemused at the lack of positivity about us. We’ve won 3 more games than we’ve lost and it’s not like we’ve had an easy draw, or no injuries.

Obviously things could have gone better, but it’s not all bad.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Yeah, certainly don't want to overwork him. I think he's due a rest now and schedule in next game round 14 2023.

2023? Ease up turbo that’s not even 12 months

 

[aussierulesrules]

Expected scores from yesterday’s game:

107
71

Tidy up our finishing alone and it’s a very comfortable win.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

He's the shortest KPP in the Coleman top 10, that's the exception. The trend is towards taller key position players. Coops does have a great leap al-la Naughton.

Edit: Paddy McCartin who we thought was undersized when we had him is listed at 1.95, did he grow a bit?

He’s also a second forward he doesn’t need to be 200. McKay is 200, they’re great foils for each other like Sharman and king will be.

200cm player + 193cm player

 

[stavro#4]

For all the lack of excitement or happiness about how we’re going, or where we’re at, there’s one thing I reckon is worth remembering:

We’re currently 11-8.

Now this year that has you just inside the 8, but last year 11 wins had you playing finals, and we’re there with 3 weeks left, and normally being 11-8 you’d have a bit of a cushion going into the last 3 rounds.

It’s been easier to bank wins across the board this year, because there have been two terrible teams, but we’ve only played them once each (with one of them being interstate, when that team was a lot more competitive than earlier in the year), so they hasn’t helped us as much as it has some other teams.

Hawthorn are the only team outside the top 6 that we’ve played twice (or will play twice) and both times we’ve played them they were going well.

They’d won 3 in a row leading into yesterday’s game and two from 3 going into our previous game against them (with a 1 point loss to Carlton the only loss).

No wonder Ratts is a bit bemused at the lack of positivity about us. We’ve won 3 more games than we’ve lost and it’s not like we’ve had an easy draw, or no injuries.

Obviously things could have gone better, but it’s not all bad.

Issue is that it means nothing if we finish 11/11.

We need to win 2 more. I always thought we needed to split the Sydney/Brisbane double ups.

Huge challenge.

Ryder (influential last time)
Billings
Gresham
McKenzie

All missing from last time we played Geelong.

Jones might return.

Owens Hanners Clark Lienert is a downgrade on talent on the above at their best.

 

[saint66au]

Why is our home end 2/3 empty every home game? Hawks end was close enough to full. Such a bad look

Huge overhaul/recruitment drive needed for the Cheer Squad in the off season.

 

[botts]

Ratts presser was good. Happy he gave a bit back

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Why is our home end 2/3 empty every home game? Hawks end was close enough to full. Such a bad look

Huge overhaul/recruitment drive needed for the Cheer Squad in the off season.

People don’t like watching their team lose. If we won every match by heaps the crowd would be huge.

 

[KingJim]

Did you see how cooked he was last 10 minutes? If his body holds up he's probably gonna need a break at some point.

Ice bath down Brighton Baths mate, he'll be fine.

 

[Munga]

You could probably come up with a hundred of those since Ratten started. They’re clearly being instructed to not kick to the area where it’s a guaranteed score if you turn it over. Even Membrey went long to a bunch of short people in the square at times. No doubt it’s what they’re being told to do.

Yep. Pretty sure the coaches have mentioned this a few times, it's in the gameplan. "Get it in deep to King" is plan A, B and C. Even then, we can't kick it near King most of the time hahaha, or he doesn't make a run at it, or he drops it.

But working up the ground should help him get more involved in the matches. Even though he kicked 2.5.1 last night, you could tell he was trying to make the play, like Buddy does. I didn't mind it too much. He has a natural swing with his leg, that's why he hits those bullet passes perfectly. But on a straight set shot walk in he slices them early (also happens with nerves or overthinking). Not sure his current coaching is working with his natural style?

 

[St Kilda Death]

Watching replay
We dominated the first quarter.
Hawks lucky (due to our poor shot scoring) that they weren’t 5 goal down at quarter time.

Expected scores from yesterday’s game:

107
71

Tidy up our finishing alone and it’s a very comfortable win.

 

[Sainter1873]

I see it a bit like Ross Lyon with Cousins. If you are expecting someone to come in and do all the work for you you're not looking at the real issues. Lobb is a ordinary. Probably realistically he's Hayes level but with a bit more height for the ruck.

De Goey has impact but he's pretty much nose to nose with Gresham. If people get frustrated with Gresham, having two should double frustration for some. I'd seriously look at Matt Crouch, having a top mid in spare like last night was a huge help.

See this confuses me. You say Lobb is ordinary and De Goey is just like Gresham (as if that’s a bad thing) but then suggest Matt Crouch. We’ve got enough of those midfielders but we really need a dynamic midfielder forward and key forward/ruck. I don’t see how Crouch solves any of our list issues.

 

[St Kilda Death]

He’s also a second forward he doesn’t need to be 200. McKay is 200, they’re great foils for each other like Sharman and king will be.

200cm player + 193cm player

Curnow is really strong, like skunk.
Not saying Sharman won’t get there, just that he’s not there yet.
Needs some protein.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Why is our home end 2/3 empty every home game? Hawks end was close enough to full. Such a bad look

Huge overhaul/recruitment drive needed for the Cheer Squad in the off season.

Our fans are depressed from years of failure.
I go.
But the weak willed have no confidence in winning and refuse to make the trip.
Get back to our winning ways of 09 and they dust off the old scarf and start rocking up.

Hawks fans still flying high from 4 flags in 8 years.
Some haven’t even realised they are shit yet.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Why is our home end 2/3 empty every home game? Hawks end was close enough to full. Such a bad look

Huge overhaul/recruitment drive needed for the Cheer Squad in the off season.

Tbh I do think our cheer squad is poorly run.
I’d promote those dudes that get drunk and make songs about all the play names after the kick a goal to go sit there and take it over!

 

[BrutThough]

Why is our home end 2/3 empty every home game? Hawks end was close enough to full. Such a bad look

Huge overhaul/recruitment drive needed for the Cheer Squad in the off season.

I don't know why people would want to sit in the cheer squad. Lvl 1 behind the goals is one of the worst views of the ground.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Curnow is really strong, like skunk.
Not saying Sharman won’t get there, just that he’s not there yet.
Needs some protein.

Max and him both will be monsters in a coupe years

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Tbh I do think our cheer squad is poorly run.
I’d promote those dudes that get drunk and make songs about all the play names after the kick a goal to go sit there and take it over!

Aisle 29 are great!

 

[gringo2011]

Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Geelong, Freo, Bulldogs, Richmond and Carlton, even Essendon are at least equal

Don't want to hear your usual.two page straw man narrative on how great we are in the mids and its all the coaching. We are a good even workmanlike midfield who only just hang on v the best. Windy and Owens are exciting prospects but developing. Gres is always injured, Hunter isn't a mid.

We need an explosive mid to take us into a top 5 mid combo. DeGoey would be that player.

Line them all up. So basically you have a vibe that ladder position is the elite midfields but then throw a few in to make it look credible. You and your straw man shit again. If some one responds to a point of view it's not a straw man argument its a response. Your chest puffing at anything you don't agree with is very tough.

Geelong have Guthrie and Duncan who are top mids, Guthrie probably A grade, Duncan A minus. Danger and Selwood run through sometimes and have a few like Atkins who go on ball. They are a great tall outfit but run a very lean midfield. It would pound for pound be way behind ours. Dogs and Carlton both have quality and depth that beat ours.

Richmond have Prestia and Edwards who both can still produce top footy. Cotchin would be as helpful as Windhager these days. Bolton and guys like that go through there but still hardly elite.

Brisbane have some good talent but apart from Neale, McLuggage and Zorko which is good but one elite players who's around Steele level and a couple of guys around Crouch and Ross level. We still have Gresham on top.

Sydney are a bunch of kids like Warner and then Parker. They are not elite in any way.

Freo are Brayshaw and Brodie. Stats insider has them at 50 and 44 in the AFL and then a 50 year old Mundy who is still good. Hardly elite apart from Brayshaw.

Essendon have Merrett and Parish then FA.

We have Steele, Crouch, Ross and Gresham all playing good footy this year, all high in rating which is actual output not your vibe shit because it suits your straw man argument that it's all players being shit. I like how you give yourself an out for next year if we come good. You can say it was all De Goey when he's pretty much identical to Gresham in very way. An extra quality mid would help any side.

I don't know why it triggers you so much to be honest. It's like you can't deal with anything outside your realm of possibility.

 

[gringo2011]

He only does this to you upset you and it works

Yep. So he trolls, okay.