Autopsy Round 20, 2022: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[SaintsSeptember]

Really? Is that how it’s going to be when I make a comment know. Your two best mates liked it. Tell me how crouch works in an already slow midfield. Adelaide won’t play him and he averages 27 possessions a game. We need pace. We need burst speed. We don’t need slow mids who rack up useless possessions. Surely you are better than whatever.

I'd be happy with 4 Jack Steele's. No way of proving it, but i think we'd be unbeatable in the midfield.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Pretty sure agility is an issue, he has the turning circle of the titanic which is not unusual for tall players

Lucky he’s not tall, he’s mid sized remember? Unlike George who is Fun Sized

 

[Baldur]

We won, did not deserve to do so.

Even when we were all over them, our forward 50 entries were rubbish. Quantity may have a quality of its own, but simply pumping the ball in and hoping that with enough entries enough goals will be scored will not win vrs top 8 team.

As for allowing them to come back after we were 40+ up, I can feel my blood pressure raising when I think about it.

Do not expect we will win any more games this year.

But I have been impressed with some of our younger players this year, they are showing both talent & grit.

 

[plugger66]

I'd be happy with 4 Jack Steele's. No way of proving it, but i think we'd be unbeatable in the midfield.

Jack Steele is twice the player of crouch now. By the way I wouldn’t. s much as I loved Lenny I’d rather just one of him and then add dal bj Joey It’s balance.

 

[Cairnsman]

It's not unusual to name the debating teams with easily recognisable symbols to represent their mode of operandi.

So you’re not niggling when you call anyone with an opposing view fan boys?

 

[plugger66]

We won, did not deserve to do so.

Even when we were all over them, our forward 50 entries were rubbish. Quantity may have a quality of its own, but simply pumping the ball in and hoping that with enough entries enough goals will be scored will not win vrs top 8 team.

As for allowing them to come back after we were 40+ up, I can feel my blood pressure raising when I think about it.

Do not expect we will win any more games this year.

But I have been impressed with some of our younger players this year, they are showing both talent & grit.

We didn’t deserve to win? Really. I thought we deserved to win by a lot more. Losing would have been a travesty. We dominated most of the game.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

We won, did not deserve to do so.

Even when we were all over them, our forward 50 entries were rubbish. Quantity may have a quality of its own, but simply pumping the ball in and hoping that with enough entries enough goals will be scored will not win vrs top 8 team.

As for allowing them to come back after we were 40+ up, I can feel my blood pressure raising when I think about it.

Do not expect we will win any more games this year.

But I have been impressed with some of our younger players this year, they are showing both talent & grit.

The better side won, the issue is how much better?

The answer is not much.

 

[George]

Lucky he’s not tall, he’s mid sized remember? Unlike George who is Fun Sized

We have lots of fun, daddy xxx

 

[Cairnsman]

Lucky he’s not tall, he’s mid sized remember? Unlike George who is Fun Sized

Well that's where I see the issue. He's mid sized in this era of many forwards being over 2m. Roos era not so much. And if you are going to be mid sized in this era then you probably need to have the agility and play making and goal kicking ability to the likes of Gary Rohan and Bayley Fritcsh. Does Sharman have the physical attributes to play like those two, probably not.

 

[George]

Lucky he’s not tall, he’s mid sized remember? Unlike George who is Fun Sized

If he's not playing like Caleb Daniel then delist

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Well that's where I see the issue. He's mid sized in this era of many forwards being over 2m. Roos era not so much. And if you are going to be mid sized in this era then you probably need to have the agility and play making and goal kicking ability to the likes of Gary Rohan and Bayley Fritcsh. Does Sharman have the physical attributes to play like those two, probably not.

If he kicks 2-4 goals a game he can “play like” Dame Edna for all I care

 

[gringo2011]

Just watched the replay and have to agree

I reckon it will be a pretty good competition between him and Windhager to see who goes furthest. Both got some star potential.

 

[Cairnsman]

If he kicks 2-4 goals a game he can “play like” Dame Edna for all I care

Agree but it would be nice to get one of our forwards to kick 4 goals or more...more often.

 

[bergholt]

For the last 10 years, here's the breakdown of how many wins we've had at the end of the season:

12: 1 - 2016
11: 2 - 2017, 2022*
10: 2 - 2020, 2021
9:1 - 2019
8: 0
7: 0
6: 1 - 2015
5: 1 - 2013
4: 2 - 2014, 2018

(Admittedly 2020 was a shortened season so that's worth more.)

Our percentage is also higher than any of those years except 2020, including 2016 where we had more wins (but with a percentage of 95.7 rather than our current number of 104.3).

This is one of our most successful few seasons in the last decade. Is that a bit sad? Yeah, I guess. But still, surely you have to enjoy relative success when it happens. And there's no reason to believe we'll get worse from here given we have plenty of players who can still improve.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I reckon it will be a pretty good competition between him and Windhager to see who goes furthest. Both got some star potential.

Meantime NAS doesn’t seem to be getting a look in after playing many games earlier. Is there something odd about this? Or just team balance?
Hasnt re-signed yet either.

 

[bergholt]

Meantime NAS doesn’t seem to be getting a look in after playing many games earlier. Is there something odd about this? Or just team balance?
Hasnt re-signed yet either.

Just looked like he'd run out of legs to me, was down to sub 70% game time and below 15 touches in his last three games. Will be better next year with more fitness.

 

[Fehring]

Sitting in the third deck yesterday, I have some different opinions.

I think our backline is every bit as dysfunctional as our forward line. It was protected in the first three quarters by our midfield dominance. We didn't just win contested possessions, tackles and clearances, we smashed them. When our pressure dropped in the last, they started to get clean inside 50s and we had no answer.

We have looked bereft down back since we lost DMac and Doogs. We build our whole defence around Doogs, and DMac works right back to the goal square, more effectively than anyone else.

It was good to see Coops getting some confidence though. When Doogs is back, I think he could cause some trouble down forward. Just needs to keep building week to week.

Re the forwards - Hawthorn is very vulnerable to the fast break. The first time we played them, we smacked them in that area. But on Saturday, we just couldn't capitalise on a heap of fast breaks. I think it's both our midfield and our forwards at fault. There was one time where Long was leading straight at goal and King was leading to the boundary and they kicked it to King. Longy would have had a shot 30 out straight in front, but instead Kingy had a shot from 50 out on the boundary.

 

[Sully111]

Well that's where I see the issue. He's mid sized in this era of many forwards being over 2m. Roos era not so much. And if you are going to be mid sized in this era then you probably need to have the agility and play making and goal kicking ability to the likes of Gary Rohan and Bayley Fritcsh. Does Sharman have the physical attributes to play like those two, probably not.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

As in can you sum up your point?

 

[Cairnsman]

What is it you're actually trying to say?

As in can you sum up your point?

Is lucky to be getting a game but has a 2 year contract extension to see if he can establish himself as an AFL player.

 

[BrutThough]

Meantime NAS doesn’t seem to be getting a look in after playing many games earlier. Is there something odd about this? Or just team balance?
Hasnt re-signed yet either.

Would be partly team balance - Lienert splitting his time between wing and 2nd ruck - and his output dropping.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Is lucky to be getting a game but has a 2 year contract extension to see if he can establish himself as an AFL player.

 

[stfan]

He always does.
Great player, courageous.
But he is a slow decision maker.

Yes so less good options to use the ball.

Not just that, but when Membrey takes a while to make his decision on who or where to kick it to (if not having a shot) often is a poor choice combined with a poor pass.

When he just quickly kicks he is much better.

 

[Mowman]

Meantime NAS doesn’t seem to be getting a look in after playing many games earlier. Is there something odd about this? Or just team balance?
Hasnt re-signed yet either.

No he hasn’t re-signed, he is a huge risk of going home after 2 years

 

[lewdogs]

I reckon it will be a pretty good competition between him and Windhager to see who goes furthest. Both got some star potential.

If those two hit their ceilings then it will be nuts. Very different players but both look like potential guns. If they were top ten picks I think the media would be frothing over them.

If we ended up with two A grade mids in one draft that could lead to a premiership. Long way to go but they are both so exciting.

Nasiah has gone ok too...

 

[Saintbloke]

Sitting in the third deck yesterday, I have some different opinions.

I think our backline is every bit as dysfunctional as our forward line. It was protected in the first three quarters by our midfield dominance. We didn't just win contested possessions, tackles and clearances, we smashed them. When our pressure dropped in the last, they started to get clean inside 50s and we had no answer.

We have looked bereft down back since we lost DMac and Doogs. We build our whole defence around Doogs, and DMac works right back to the goal square, more effectively than anyone else.

It was good to see Coops getting some confidence though. When Doogs is back, I think he could cause some trouble down forward. Just needs to keep building week to week.

Re the forwards - Hawthorn is very vulnerable to the fast break. The first time we played them, we smacked them in that area. But on Saturday, we just couldn't capitalise on a heap of fast breaks. I think it's both our midfield and our forwards at fault. There was one time where Long was leading straight at goal and King was leading to the boundary and they kicked it to King. Longy would have had a shot 30 out straight in front, but instead Kingy had a shot from 50 out on the boundary.

In that last quarter, our half forward and midfield defensive game disappeared after doing well for three quarters- not close enough to make contests or put pressure on the Hawks ball carriers. Either Ratts told the guys to pull back, or too many Saints ran out of steam, and that wouldn't be a good sign if we're hoping to play finals.