Preview Round 20 - Geelong V Hawthorn - Sat Aug 15 MCG 7:20pm

[MC Extra Dollop]

Stokes was not far better than Cockatoo. stokes played a full game for 14 touches and Cockatoo 3 qtrs for 10. Basically the same amount of the pill. cockatoo looked a little lost in defence in the first half but so would stokes if they played him there. Cockatoo had a couple of great plays using his pace last night. Some good defensive work on the forward line and one great run off half back. Stokes on the other hand looked slow and got burned a couple of times by swans players running off him forward. Would rather take Cockatoo then Stokes as a forward after last nights performance. He offers more defensive pressure in the forward half and can break the lines.

If Stokes had played Cockatoo's game and vice versa, I get the feeling that people would have been saying Cockatoo had a far better game than Stokes. Stokes kicked a massive goal and Cockatoo made some massive clangers. And Stokes has produced against Hawthorn time and again. It's really as simple as that for me. I'm not even sure when his last bad game against Hawthorn was.

 

[Claude Balls]

Johnson straight back in? After such a strong showing last night, he may be a little nervous about his chances (although unlikely).
After so many suspensions, there's going to come a time in which his form doesn't necessarily warrant immediate selection as we have a couple of younger guys beginning to hold their own.

Of course Johnson will come straight back in.

 

[Lana]

Smedts VFL stats (from the VFL thread) were 22 disposals, 9 contested, 5 marks & 4 tackles; some nice numbers and surely will come into contention again.

This might be a crazy suggestion, but would it be the worse option to bring in Smedts to play in the forward line in place of Kersten? According to the footy record there is only 1cm difference between them, but Kersten does have some more muscle on him - but would it work with Smedts playing as something of a defensive forward; have him lead to the ball to create space for Hawkins (something Kersten seems to struggle with as he doesn't seem to be leading to the ball a lot lately, rather just guarding space), and then work to lock the ball in the 50 if it hits the ground.

I think there are areas of his game that Kersten needs to work on, and maybe VFL would be a better option for that rather than almost being selected by default - he has 9 goals in 11 games this season, goalless in 5 games including his last three, yes 3 goal assists against the Lions last week, but only 1 other goal assist in his goalless games, leaving 3 games where his score contribution is 3 behinds. Comparing his season with Smedts, I don't know we actually lose much with Smedts playing forward; Smedts is averaging more disposals, higher disposal efficiency, more marks and more tackles, only let down by not hitting the scoreboard this season.

It's not about height, its about build, it's about forcing Hawthorn to create a direct matchup for Gibson, rather than having him running around as the loose man in defense and jumper as the third man up over Hawkins all game. They won't send Gibson to Smedts.

 

[year of the cat]

Smedts VFL stats (from the VFL thread) were 22 disposals, 9 contested, 5 marks & 4 tackles; some nice numbers and surely will come into contention again.

This might be a crazy suggestion, but would it be the worse option to bring in Smedts to play in the forward line in place of Kersten? According to the footy record there is only 1cm difference between them, but Kersten does have some more muscle on him - but would it work with Smedts playing as something of a defensive forward; have him lead to the ball to create space for Hawkins (something Kersten seems to struggle with as he doesn't seem to be leading to the ball a lot lately, rather just guarding space), and then work to lock the ball in the 50 if it hits the ground.

I think there are areas of his game that Kersten needs to work on, and maybe VFL would be a better option for that rather than almost being selected by default - he has 9 goals in 11 games this season, goalless in 5 games including his last three, yes 3 goal assists against the Lions last week, but only 1 other goal assist in his goalless games, leaving 3 games where his score contribution is 3 behinds. Comparing his season with Smedts, I don't know we actually lose much with Smedts playing forward; Smedts is averaging more disposals, higher disposal efficiency, more marks and more tackles, only let down by not hitting the scoreboard this season.

I don't mind Smedts as a forward EXCEPT for the fact that his set shot kicking is terrible. To play as a mid sized forward he needs to be relied upon to kick straight when he gets a chance. I just don't have that trust of Smedts. To me his best chance of "making it" is as a midfielder.

 

[Spazz Cat]

H-S on Mitchell would be an option, both slow as a wet week.

I would do this. GHS is an effective stopper on slowish players.
Would also show him what's needed at AFL level.
Both similar players. Both have good disposal on both sides.
Mitchell is elite though. Can't even tell if he's left or right footed

 

[cats_09]

It's not about height, its about build, it's about forcing Hawthorn to create a direct matchup for Gibson, rather than having him running around as the loose man in defense and jumper as the third man up over Hawkins all game. They won't send Gibson to Smedts.

With how Kersten has been playing lately I would say that Gibson will be running off him very quickly to double team Hawkins anyway - Kersten doesn't look dangerous when he stands around the forward 50, he doesn't create many leads and often looks like he is just holding space that guys like Hawkins & Walker are looking to lead into which mean they are getting double teamed anyway; his 3 goal assists against the Lions came from us getting the ball out the back quickly and Kersten being positioned in the right place with an open forward line and barely a defender and I applaud him for doing the team thing and handballing to a teammate in an open goal square. But does Kersten really give the appearance of being a dangerous forward option who would draw a player away from double teaming Hawkins or even Walker if he starts to kick a few?

The best Kersten has looked in recent games is when they have pushed him to play as a high half-forward which forcing him up the ground, gets him running around and working a bit more as a linking player. If he is selected for the match and they end up playing him in that position then Gibson won't run with him anyway.

Whoever we select to play as the 3rd tall has to work hard to create space for Hawkins and Walker, and the way to do that is to make leads and start looking dangerous. If it is Smedts who gets selected and Gibson doesn't want to go with him, then we hit up Smedts and he has to convert; if its Kersten he has to move away from Hawkins and he has to make himself look dangerous. Or maybe they will go with the same shorter lineup we used against the Swans, but not sure that will work.

 

[fpm84]

Can't believe so many people want Kersten straight back in - to play the best team in the comp.

 

[DV2000]

IN: Rivers, Johnson and Bews
OUT: Cockatoo (omit), Stokes (omit) and Horlin-Smith (omit)

B: Enright, Lonergan, Kolodjashnij
HB: Mackie, Taylor, Bartel
C: Kelly, Caddy, Murdoch
HF: Motlop, Rivers, Duncan
F: Johnson, Hawkins, Gregson
R: Blicavs, Selwood, Guthrie

Int: Thurlow, Bews, Walker
Sub: Lang

Emg: Simpson, Stokes and Horlin-Smith

Troll alert? Rivers at HF??

 

[DV2000]

Anyone know what Lewis's form is like? Didn't he have 40 odd touches in round one and absolutely murder us?

Yeah, he was close to bog in round 1...and he's been very good in the last three weeks after a bit of a slump in the middle of the season.

 

[Lana]

With how Kersten has been playing lately I would say that Gibson will be running off him very quickly to double team Hawkins anyway - Kersten doesn't look dangerous when he stands around the forward 50, he doesn't create many leads and often looks like he is just holding space that guys like Hawkins & Walker are looking to lead into which mean they are getting double teamed anyway; his 3 goal assists against the Lions came from us getting the ball out the back quickly and Kersten being positioned in the right place with an open forward line and barely a defender and I applaud him for doing the team thing and handballing to a teammate in an open goal square. But does Kersten really give the appearance of being a dangerous forward option who would draw a player away from double teaming Hawkins or even Walker if he starts to kick a few?

The best Kersten has looked in recent games is when they have pushed him to play as a high half-forward which forcing him up the ground, gets him running around and working a bit more as a linking player. If he is selected for the match and they end up playing him in that position then Gibson won't run with him anyway.

Whoever we select to play as the 3rd tall has to work hard to create space for Hawkins and Walker, and the way to do that is to make leads and start looking dangerous. If it is Smedts who gets selected and Gibson doesn't want to go with him, then we hit up Smedts and he has to convert; if its Kersten he has to move away from Hawkins and he has to make himself look dangerous. Or maybe they will go with the same shorter lineup we used against the Swans, but not sure that will work.

I disagree with your conclusion, teams send a KPD to him every week and Hawthorn won't be any different. Our three tall forward-line has been working because we've been able to avoid having Hawkins being double teamed (compare to what he went with last year) by having Walker and Kersten make create space, it doesn't show on the stat sheet or give you ranking points but its very important. Its hard to notice on TV since they zoom the camera in close but its one of those that would be easy to see with a behind the goal camera, or if you watched his movements for a quarter at a live game.

Whether Gibson pays him respect is another question. There has been games where he hasn't paid any respect to much more accomplished players. It depends more on our ball movement, if its slow then he'll run off but if its anything like how we've been playing the last month, he won't be able to run off his man since he wouldn't have time to get back.

 

[WA Cat]

Rivers or Bews may be options in the backiline to cover the Hawks key forwards including one of Cyril, Breust, Poppy and Gunstan. However we will also need to stop the supply to their forward line - Birchall is the architect of so many inside 50s, he is the quarter back (along with Hodge).

Mots owes the Hawks a favour after the Colac drinking fiasco. He, along with Duncan and Murdoch, will need to have big games to help break the Hawks defence.

We can't play both GHS and Stoksie given the open space at the MCG. The Hawks runners - Hill, Smith, burgoyne and Shiels - will need to be effectively covered.

 

[Claude Balls]

George Horlin-Smith's arms would still be rising from his sides in a pantomime of slow motion while Sam Mitchell was watching Brad Hill run away with the ball that he'd fed him. Just because a player is slow running down the wing doesn't mean they are slow in all senses of the word. In George's case yes, but it sure does seem to be a common misconception with regard to Mitchell.

 

[romeohwho]

Rivers or Bews may be options in the backiline to cover the Hawks key forwards including one of Cyril, Breust, Poppy and Gunstan. However we will also need to stop the supply to their forward line - Birchall is the architect of so many inside 50s, he is the quarter back (along with Hodge).

Mots owes the Hawks a favour after the Colac drinking fiasco. He, along with Duncan and Murdoch, will need to have big games to help break the Hawks defence.

We can't play both GHS and Stoksie given the open space at the MCG. The Hawks runners - Hill, Smith, burgoyne and Shiels - will need to be effectively covered.

Quite like Bews for Poppy or Breust.

 

[Pivo]

At the risk of making a catastrophic prediction, I think Lang is going to be become a very, very good player for us. Still developing, and still needs improvement. But every now and again he does something that shows incredible poise and talent.

Never fear, some of us made similar calls in his first year at the club when he was taken instead of Dunstan (who I still really like btw).

It was rough going there for a little bit but he is starting to repay the faith.

 

[Vdubs]

H-S on Mitchell would be an option, both slow as a wet week.

Mitchell is superquick in reflexes and thought processing.
Need somebody like Guthrie, or Bews, maybe. We need GHS getting used to playing AFL again, not an initiation on the most difficult player in the AFL, currently playing, to tag, imho.

 

[Munich]

Bews is a far better option to come in if Rivers is still not 100%.

Rivers has to come in though if he's fit, what's the problem?

 

[Pivo]

Difference right now with our team is guys like Blicavs, Caddy and Motlop are playing career best footy. Particularly Caddy. This was not the case when Geelong started off the year.
Caddy has been sensational for a good 2 months. Flying well and truly under the radar. 10 contested possessions last night, along with 9 tackles and another 5 clearances. Also booted 16 goals from 17 games.

I wonder if Caddy is a player who eases into seasons and starts hitting his straps later in the year?

Certainly putting together some good footy in recent weeks.

 

[catempire]

Mitchell is superquick in reflexes and thought processing.
Need somebody like Guthrie, or Bews, maybe. We need GHS getting used to playing AFL again, not an initiation on the most difficult player in the AFL to tag, imho.

Ablett plays for Gold Coast mate.

 

[Lana]

Bews is a far better option to come in if Rivers is still not 100%.

Rivers has to come in though if he's fit, what's the problem?

Structure, I don't want us to play 4 KPDs, and Kolodjashnij performance has been very good, so I can't see them dropping him. Kind of a reverse of the situation between them earlier in the year.

With Jimmy playing a lot of game time down back , I can't see Bews getting a call up.

In Johnson Kersten
Out Stokes Cockatoo

Sub Anyone but GHS

 

[Vdubs]

Ablett plays for Gold Coast mate.

True.
But I'm accepting we have Ablett, then the rest of the AFL, just like in the 80's-90's.
Just edited both posts.

 

[Munich]

Structure, I don't want us to play 4 KPDs, and Kolodjashnij performance has been very good, so I can't see them dropping him. Kind of a reverse of the situation between them earlier in the year.

With Jimmy playing a lot of game time down back , I can't see Bews getting a call up.

In Johnson Kersten
Out Stokes Cockatoo

Sub Anyone but GHS

Ok fair point, I guess my main gripe is he's been one of if not our best defender this year. But I don't want Kolo out after last nights performance, he was simply breathtaking.

 

[JUBJUB]

Bews is a far better option to come in if Rivers is still not 100%.

Rivers has to come in though if he's fit, what's the problem?

Some kid in a #8 jumper has pinched his spot

 

[Munich]

Some kid in a #8 jumper has pinched his spot

Yeah, I'm not thinking structurally at all, just who're the best players we've got I guess.

 

[catman2006]

Yeah probably wont beat the Hawks, but if they can hit the Hawks hard around the contest and at least give ourselves a chance, we Know Hawkins will clean their defence up if we deliver the ball which is something we have not done well this year and whilst this is not our GF match, a win will give all massive confidence boost for the rest of the season and finals ahead.

SJ for Cocky

How many cheap shots will the Hawks throw, watch them complain about umpires even though they have loved Hawks a long time

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Can't believe so many people want Kersten straight back in - to play the best team in the comp.

Did he play VFL - no mention of him in the thread
Edit - was he an emergency?