Preview Round 22, 2023: St.Kilda v Richmond - Marvel Stadium, Sunday 13th August, 3:20PM AEST *MADDIE'S MATCH*

[Saintbloke]

I reckon Lyon has run out of tricks and got found out tactically by Voss especially in the second half against Carlton. I think the bigger problem is our tactical strategies around centre bounces and stoppages around the ground, not to mention forward structures- where players stand, how the ball is moved to advantage etc. The only part that is working reasonably ok, but under unnecessary pressure, is the backline.
It is dumb to bring a midfield player like Bytel in for one game, then drop him ffs. Port dropped their captain on form issues, and I reckon Steele should feel some heat as his body language this season including pre-season hasn't looked switched on.

We got out coached I'm sorry to say. They identified our prime movers and shut them down and we failed to react. It's not the end of the world just a confirmation of what we already know.
Irrespective of finishing position we're ahead of last year and it's on the back of playing the youth. Not the time to turn away from the sun.

 

[beside the seaside]

Having a look at the ladder predictor there's a realistic way we actually come eighth with only one more win. However, it would need everything to fall our way.

Realistically we'll need to win two to make it.

This is the easiest of our last three and we simply have to win it.

 

[BigMonty]

Interesting that our problem midfield this week won us the game last week against the Hawks.

So it's not only just coaching but players attitude. Can't win them all...seemed that Voss tagged Crouch after half time and with Steele stopping Cripps we had no one else to be that midfielder winning the ball. Must get another see ball get ball mid two would be peachy.

Hawks also incidentally beat Collingwood's much vaunted midfield.
Strange game football....a week in football is a long time....on any given day any team can beat another irrespective of ladder position....yadda yadda yadda.

King saying 6 week ladder has Blues on top so our loss us not all that bad, we are in the mix for the eight not the four like Blues.

Richmond most likely play more kids for exposure next few weeks which should make it a bit easier....least it won't rain which was the game changer last time.

Gresham for Billings
Phillipou rested for Membrey
Sharman or Brynes for Coffield



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[Ricmel]

I’ve only got 70 more years

View attachment 1767142

That's what I said 50 years ago.

 

[gringo2011]

Our problem is also with the system.. Been penned in by an opponent for an entire quarter is not new, we’ve suffered from that since Richo days, even in Ratts’ best year (2020 covid year), we could not get out of defence in 2nd half of games. This was a common theme in all other year too.. all we do is long bomb down the line..

1. Is this a player thing? players panick when pressured and just kick blindly out of the backline, resulting in turnovers and more pressure.

2. Is it a coaching thing? Coaches instruct players to bomb the ball to designated spots, kill the play/ball and reset.

3. Is it a fitness issue? This happens mostly in 2nd half of the game, when the body are tired and the easiest thing is just to boot it out of the danger zone..

Don’t really know the answer, but think it’ll be a combination.. All I know is apart from Sinclair, we don’t have the players to run the ball out of backline fluidly.. Carlton had Saad, Fisher, Kemp, Cincotta as runners from the backline on Sunday!!! really night and day.. even Hawthorn can transition the ball better than us under pressure. We need to prioritise recruitment of players that can execute under pressure.. our players for too long have not been trained to use skills with pressure, now their default action is panick, fumble and give a hospital handball/long bomb .. Ross the boss, it’s on you to fix this..

Anyone can defend or kick a goal when they are on their own, we need to train our players to beat their direct opponent, win the ball then pass it to a team mate.. otherwise, we really just leave it to too few.. If Howard, Webster can’t win the ball one on one and pass to a team mate, move them on.. a pure stopper that just punched the ball away then falls over is useless in today’s game.

Part of it is a lack of senior players that have played heaps of footy together. We had 5 players that were on our 2017 list playing on Sunday. Gresham, Marshall and Battle had only just started then. Sinclair was a fringe player. Webster the most senior of them.

Collingwood had something like 14 including several that played in the 2010 premiership. That is a hardened, synchronised core. We are a bunch of journeymen and B grade GOPs and some promising kids.

We lack real high end players too. We are still quite beige. I'd say Sinclair, Steele, Marshall and Wilkie are our best 4 and Nas maybe pushing up to that group then we have a lot of GOPs. Even Crouch who is playing great right now is a solid B rather than elite. He's got lower hurt factor than most similar types. Mason Wood in that category too.

The Dogs are the only side I can think of that won a flag with a list of GOP's and a bunch of star kids. Carlton's list looks ready to cause real finals damage I hate to say. They are pretty much ready to win a flag with what they have. Doubt they will with their coaching set up though.

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon games like that we just go into our shell and players get scared to make any moves. We transitioned the ball fantastic in the 1st half. 2nd half, went into our shell and basically no one up field is moving to demand ball/ create space / overlap run.

It's absolute stupidity to kick it to a contest when your getting belted in contested, but you have to kick it somewhere and if you don't have a better option, that's where it will go

Carlton manned us up and we got reactive and conservative. Wouldn't take risks and resigned ourselves to a loss rather than fight through. You can excuse the kids but we needed leadership.

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon Lyon has run out of tricks and got found out tactically by Voss especially in the second half against Carlton. I think the bigger problem is our tactical strategies around centre bounces and stoppages around the ground, not to mention forward structures- where players stand, how the ball is moved to advantage etc. The only part that is working reasonably ok, but under unnecessary pressure, is the backline.
It is dumb to bring a midfield player like Bytel in for one game, then drop him ffs. Port dropped their captain on form issues, and I reckon Steele should feel some heat as his body language this season including pre-season hasn't looked switched on.

Voss took it back to the 90s in retro round. One on one footy and their better players beat ours. We helped them by freezing in the headlights too. Probably should have gone the mega flood like the old days.

That said they still had to crack the game open by snapping and long range shots. That's been a theme this year, sides take their chances against us and one or two goals against the play breaks us open and we can't peg it back.

 

[The Punter]

Voss took it back to the 90s in retro round. One on one footy and their better players beat ours. We helped them by freezing in the headlights too. Probably should have gone the mega flood like the old days.

That said they still had to crack the game open by snapping and long range shots. That's been a theme this year, sides take their chances against us and one or two goals against the play breaks us open and we can't peg it back.

We don't kick half chance goals and haven't for many years

 

[Desperate saint]

In: Membrey, Billings, Coffield, Stocker
Out: Caminiti, Gresham, Pou & Byrnes(sub)

Billings for Gresham, Membrey for Hammer and Coffield to provide extra drive and intercepting off half back. Stocker to rotate through mid, back & bench with Windhager. We need some grunt and hardness in the middle and Stocker might provide a bit of that.

like it

 

[Saintbloke]

Voss took it back to the 90s in retro round. One on one footy and their better players beat ours. We helped them by freezing in the headlights too. Probably should have gone the mega flood like the old days.

That said they still had to crack the game open by snapping and long range shots. That's been a theme this year, sides take their chances against us and one or two goals against the play breaks us open and we can't peg it back.

Lack of pressure in the corridor made it easy for Carlton to run down and set up goals- the midfield defensive game has been ordinary in many games, but Lyon knows that, so I'm curious to know how he fixes it, as it's not just all the player's fault.

 

[Desperate saint]

Voss took it back to the 90s in retro round. One on one footy and their better players beat ours. We helped them by freezing in the headlights too. Probably should have gone the mega flood like the old days.

That said they still had to crack the game open by snapping and long range shots. That's been a theme this year, sides take their chances against us and one or two goals against the play breaks us open and we can't peg it back.

would like us to take more shots from 50

 

[AirWinmar]

Voss took it back to the 90s in retro round. One on one footy and their better players beat ours. We helped them by freezing in the headlights too. Probably should have gone the mega flood like the old days.

That said they still had to crack the game open by snapping and long range shots. That's been a theme this year, sides take their chances against us and one or two goals against the play breaks us open and we can't peg it back.

It's so strange that teams have figured us out playing man on man, when you should be able to beat man on man strategically. After all, that's why sport evolved to zones. Problem is you need your team to have a lot of movement to create space and blocking unless you just have better players. Unfortunately we didn't have either

 

[70s sainter]

Although I would love to beat Richmond this week and were thinking of going along , long term we may be soo better off not winning again this year . Don’t win another game this year we can finish as low as 13th . That’s pick 6 or maybe 7th -8th with compo picks . Better 2nd pick and better compo for Gresham ? More bargaining power for those much needed quality mids . I just fear that finishing 7-9 is gonna be more damaging than it is beneficial??
As we saw against blues were going nowhere with this midfield.

 

[chris_h_11]

Although I would love to beat Richmond this week and were thinking of going along , long term we may be soo better off not winning again this year

Problem is Richmond probably don't want to win that much either. I'm torn - I think I want to make it, only because of what happened last year. Falling in a heap after the bye 2 years running is tough to take.

We're in the midst of mid-table obscurity, and going nowhere fast, which is exactly what led to North's current predicament.

 

[stfan]

Although I would love to beat Richmond this week and were thinking of going along , long term we may be soo better off not winning again this year . Don’t win another game this year we can finish as low as 13th . That’s pick 6 or maybe 7th -8th with compo picks . Better 2nd pick and better compo for Gresham ? More bargaining power for those much needed quality mids . I just fear that finishing 7-9 is gonna be more damaging than it is beneficial??
As we saw against blues were going nowhere with this midfield.

Two edged sword though.

Slide and you get slightly better draft picks, but still not the absolute guns from finishing very low, BUT you probably also kill off any chance of a decent player from another club joining us during the trade/FA period.

 

[beside the seaside]

Dusty, Cotchin and Grimes all back in for them this week. They have a 9-day break too.

Changing my tune a bit, this will be tough to win.

 

[Miha]

Wtf why are we favourites?

 

[BigMonty]

would like us to take more shots from 50

So would I but Gresham Butler and Higgins can't kick 40m over a mark.

So half our fwds can't the other half won't lead at the ball carrier but run backwards with hand in the air saying kick it to me kick it to me ffs.

None of our mids really like taking the flying 50 shot including Billings.

Marshall Pou Sincs and Wood are the only ones that you feel will kick the distance....accuracy well that's another story. NWM needs to add this string to his bow.

That's what made Voss Buckley Hird DeGoey Daicos Danger Bont Dusty they are quick and will ping it from 50 defenders can't cover two spots from a stopage at once.



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[Diehard Saint]

Carlton's list looks ready to cause real finals damage I hate to say. They are pretty much ready to win a flag with what they have. Doubt they will with their coaching set up though.

Perish the thought!!!

 

[Diehard Saint]

We don't kick half chance goals and haven't for many years

3 forays forward into space that looked like certain goals and we totally stuffed them.

 

[70s sainter]

Two edged sword though.

Slide and you get slightly better draft picks, but still not the absolute guns from finishing very low, BUT you probably also kill off any chance of a decent player from another club joining us during the trade/FA period.

I fully see where you’re coming from . Another angle is selling the future to any potential free agents know you’re getting better draft picks to help going forward . Look at hawthorn and you can see they’re projecting in the right direction but zero chance of making finals this year

 

[gringo2011]

Problem is Richmond probably don't want to win that much either. I'm torn - I think I want to make it, only because of what happened last year. Falling in a heap after the bye 2 years running is tough to take.

We're in the midst of mid-table obscurity, and going nowhere fast, which is exactly what led to North's current predicament.

I think Richmond will be going hard at a win. Mini wants that job and unless he puts up a compelling case it's not guaranteed. He's playing his older list and ignoring kids at the moment. They are older than us most weeks. I don't think we have any psychological edge either. They'll go in thinking that they can get us.

 

[StCicatriz]

I reckon Lyon has run out of tricks and got found out tactically by Voss especially in the second half against Carlton. I think the bigger problem is our tactical strategies around centre bounces and stoppages around the ground, not to mention forward structures- where players stand, how the ball is moved to advantage etc. The only part that is working reasonably ok, but under unnecessary pressure, is the backline.
It is dumb to bring a midfield player like Bytel in for one game, then drop him ffs. Port dropped their captain on form issues, and I reckon Steele should feel some heat as his body language this season including pre-season hasn't looked switched on.

if by found out tactically you mean "voss exploited the non existant st kilda midfield thats been shown up to be C grade" then yeah sure

i dont see what moves ross didnt make that he could have

ross cant make the midfield touch the ball. when you have 1 possession between 2/3 of your midfield in Crouch and Steele in the 1st qtr when youre only up by a bit its going to make it very hard to win a game of footy. i dont see what ross did to ensure that happened.

 

[puppy_dog7]

if by found out tactically you mean "voss exploited the non existant st kilda midfield thats been shown up to be C grade" then yeah sure

i dont see what moves ross didnt make that he could have

ross cant make the midfield touch the ball. when you have 1 possession between 2/3 of your midfield in Crouch and Steele in the 1st qtr when youre only up by a bit its going to make it very hard to win a game of footy. i dont see what ross did to ensure that happened.

Well the blame goes on both.

No reason to blame centre clearance, but the reason Carlton dominated stoppage clearance in the 2nd half is because we persisted with playing a spare in front of Curnow the entire time.
What Carlton did was just roll an extra up to the stoppage to create an outnumber, It's also why their halfbacks in Newman, Fisher, Saad and Docherty destroyed us, because at all times at least one of them was free. It worked for us in the 1st half because we were actually winning the midfield battle, but they obviously got a rocket and tweaked their structure a bit and we had zero answers.

It was embarrassing the coaches didn't do anything to change our structure besides sub Pou off for Stocker, roll Sincs up to midfield and Owens from mid to half forward. How they didn't even consider going back to man on man is beyond me.

 

[StCicatriz]

Well the blame goes on both.

No reason to blame centre clearance, but the reason Carlton dominated stoppage clearance in the 2nd half is because we persisted with playing a spare in front of Curnow the entire time.
What Carlton did was just roll an extra up to the stoppage to create an outnumber, It's also why their halfbacks in Newman, Fisher, Saad and Docherty destroyed us, because at all times at least one of them was free. It worked for us in the 1st half because we were actually winning the midfield battle, but they obviously got a rocket and tweaked their structure a bit and we had zero answers.

It was embarrassing the coaches didn't do anything to change our structure besides sub Pou off for Stocker, roll Sincs up to midfield and Owens from mid to half forward. How they didn't even consider going back to man on man is beyond me.

how did the center clearance go?