Autopsy Round 3, 2022: Hawks go down to the Blues

[Off The Couch]

I reckon if you went back and watched Hodge, Sammy's, hell even Lethal games you could make that comment at least once.

Even the best players misjudge things sometimes.

I reckon hodge in 2008 against Geelong

He did us a favour - by stuffing up he let Geelong keep thinking they were invincible

 

[Aramis]

"one shit, half-assed and unaware effort gifted them a goal"

Yes, you're embarrassing yourself.

Nah, its not embarrassing at all. Its factual.

It was objectively a half-assed unaware effort......

Facts don't care about your feelings, remember that.

I reckon if you went back and watched Hodge, Sammy's, hell even Lethal games you could make that comment at least once.

Even the best players misjudge things sometimes.

This ^

Shit happens, players learn and will be better for it.

 

[BlueDay]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

Yeah i don't believe in the umpires making the difference i never have but it will interesting because have you in the past?

 

[PenAndPaper]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

Reckon you've done about a quarter of your total posts in this thread.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

Hahahahahhahahahahhaha

 

[grumbleguts]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

No, they are not. They are a way of informing the imbecile you're talking to that he hasn't got a clue. In this case that would be you. Someone posted footage of the Pittonet dive/slip whatever. Watch it and get back to me. It directly caused a goal and the margin was less than a goal. really struggling to see how else this can be explained, without pointing out you don't have the capacity to understand it. Actually don't get back to me.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

That particular poster is known for his condescending and laughably self-aggrandizing posts. I imagine he likes to act this way on the internet as some sort of coping mechanism; to compensate for something in his actual real life.

Now that's out of the way - getting blown out in the first the way we did was inexcusable.

But to claw it back and hit the lead was a great effort. One that should have been rewarded. That should have happened with the obvious HTB decision on Williams 30m out directly in front with 2 minutes to go, amongst other obvious non-calls.

Unfortunately the multiple (non) decisions like that in the last quarter, along with losing Scrimshaw and DGB and the entire first quarter cost us an unlikely win.

 

[Dipper]

That particular poster is known for his condescending and laughably self-aggrandizing posts. I imagine he likes to act this way on the internet as some sort of coping mechanism; to compensate for something in his actual real life.

Small penis!





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[FactsNotBS]

Dreadful turnovers? Lol.

CJ was incredible yesterday. Fans thought it. Oppo fans thought it and the coaches clearly thought it going by the coaches votes. He was EASILY our best player yesterday.

Frosty has been good and is definitely underrated, however please stop trying to constantly tear down one of the most exciting young players in the comp just to get your point across about Frosty being underrated.

CJ transforms us as a team.

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Tearing CJ down? If you dont think his disposal is variable you are being stubborn. Tearing CJ down are your words not mine. CJ is a star and like Frosty, Im sure he will improve his disposal to become one of Hawthorns greats!

I was making a point about Frosty being unrecognized.

Frost has in previous seasons at GWS, Melb and in early days at Hawthorn, made some terrible turnovers that he has been much maligned for. But the Hawks and Frosty through hard work, Im sure, have all but stopped this and he has become, in my opinion, the best defender in the AFL.

IMHO


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[FactsNotBS]

Because most fans think that Frost plays football. Once you realise and accept that he plays to his own tune of Frostball can you only truly understand how good he is.

hahaha Frostball!! Love it.


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[PenAndPaper]

Tearing CJ down? If you dont think his disposal is variable you are being stubborn. Tearing CJ down are your words not mine. CJ is a star and like Frosty, Im sure he will improve his disposal to become one of Hawthorns greats!

I was making a point about Frosty being unrecognized.

Frost has in previous seasons at GWS, Melb and in early days at Hawthorn, made some terrible turnovers that he has been much maligned for. But the Hawks and Frosty through hard work, Im sure, have all but stopped this and he has become, in my opinion, the best defender in the AFL.

IMHO


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I have been incredibly critical of CJ's disposal in the past but in 2021 and so far this year, his disposal has been perfectly fine and consistently good.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Mmm watch the replay again from the weekend.

What you talking about?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I watched the replay at least twice and saw at least one clanger where he kicked it directly to the oppo. It was a shocking turnover. Having said that, every player does it but I am sure I am not the only one who gets nervous when the ball is in CJ's hands. Again! I love him, he is a star and he is exciting. But he DOES turn the ball over more regularly than most and YES I am sure he will get better. He has already got better but he is still doing it, just less often.

Cj run over your dog or something?

Seems weird that you’d even bother making this comment, if you’re then going to acknowledge that everyone makes mistakes.

Your statement that he makes more errors than others looks to be blatantly false.

 

[eldorado]

Again, I love him, hes a star but HE TURNS THE BALL OVER more often than others. ....My Hawks friends all agree with me that their hearts go into their mouths every time he goes on a run.

Without wanting to be impolite, I suspect this reflects more on the confirmation biases and preconceptions of you and your friends than it does on how CJ has been playing...all those 'errors' you saw on Monday, for example.


I don't hold my breath when he gets the ball, and neither do any fellow Hawk supporters with whom I watch. 2020 CJ...maybe a little. 2022 CJ...No

 

[hawkman]

7 turnovers v Saints and 1 vs Cats. That is the 1 v Cats I was talking about. A shocker. So I am not sure how he got over 90% DE in that game.

No he didnt run over my dog. Im just stating the obvious. Again, I love him, hes a star but HE TURNS THE BALL OVER more often than others. He has a lot of room for improvement. Big improvement on the weekend but V Saints confirms the obvious. He got the ball 22 times in that game and produced 7 clangers. Thats one in 3 disposals he not only missed the target it was a clanger.
C=Clangers.

You going on about this is putting your head in the sand. My Hawks friends all agree with me that their hearts go into their mouths every time he goes on a run. It is exciting but scary.

But CJ's trend is improving over his career. That is why I said I am sure he will get better at hitting targets and making the right decisions with a little more experience.

What he could become is amazing. NO QUESTION about that.





View attachment 1379935

He gave away 3 free kicks so it is 4 disposal clangers at most. Turnovers include kicks to a contest where the opposition gets the ball

 

[B&GBlood]

Insults, the sure sign someone is losing an argument. The Hawks gave up an eight goal first qtr (if you include the 50m that Harry should have got after frost threw the ball 10m over his head, if you want to believe that an umpiring decision was the difference then good luck for the rest of the season.

In any game decided by less than a goal, an umpiring error is quite likely to have influenced the game. I draw your attention to a goal scored early in the second quarter that came after a pass that was clearly kicked from over the boundary line. That is one of several that could have changed the outcome, if you can’t recognise good fortune in a result decided by less than a goal more fool you.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

7 turnovers v Saints and 1 vs Cats. That is the 1 v Cats I was talking about. A shocker. So I am not sure how he got over 90% DE in that game.

No he didnt run over my dog. Im just stating the obvious. Again, I love him, hes a star but HE TURNS THE BALL OVER more often than others. He has a lot of room for improvement. Big improvement on the weekend but V Saints confirms the obvious. He got the ball 22 times in that game and produced 7 clangers. Thats one in 3 disposals he not only missed the target it was a clanger.
C=Clangers.

You going on about this is putting your head in the sand. My Hawks friends all agree with me that their hearts go into their mouths every time he goes on a run. It is exciting but scary.

But CJ's trend is improving over his career. That is why I said I am sure he will get better at hitting targets and making the right decisions with a little more experience.

What he could become is amazing. NO QUESTION about that.





View attachment 1379935

I’m not going on about anything though.

It was you who bumped a three week old thread to make a point that has been pulled apart other posters.

If your “Hawk mates are concerned when CJ has the ball” that says more about them than CJ.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Mmm watch the replay again from the weekend.

Mmm get an understanding on how disposal efficiency works and what clangers are.

 

[PenAndPaper]

I can see a kick missing its target and going to the opposition.


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Problem is you can't see past 1 ineffective disposal against Geelong.

Round 1: 24 disposals, 20 effective at 83.3% (2 kicks ineffective from 9)
Round 2: 11 Disposals, 7 effective at 63.6% (1 Kick ineffective from 5)
Round 3: 27 disposals, 22 effective at 81.5% (3 kicks from 20 ineffective)
Round 4: 22 disposals, 19 effective at 86.4% (2 kicks from 13 ineffective)
Round 5: 19 disposals, 18 effective at 94.7% (1 kick from 9 ineffective)

These are elite disposal efficiency numbers bar one game.
He is 20th in the comp for defender disposal efficiency, the best of any Hawk defender. (65th in the whole comp)
He is also 10th in the comp for defender kicking efficiency, again the best of any Hawk defender. (52nd in the whole comp)

He has the best disposal efficiency at Hawthorn (behind Lynch who has had 2 touches) and 4th at Hawthorn for effective kick% behind (Lynch, McEvoy who have played 1 game & DGB)

Maybe live up to your name and start viewing the facts.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Haha OMG mate we both love him but are you seriously saying he’s a good/accurate ball user?

Would you suggest Mitch doesn’t need to coach him? No improvement needed? Focus only on the other players? Ive said Im sure CJ will improve his disposal and decision making as the trend is going that way.

We have seen huge improvement in Frost. My original point. Its a credit to the Hawks, the coaching team and Frosty himself. Can we agree on that?


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Yes, I'm saying he's a good ball user, because it's a verifiable fact.

This year, CJ is above average for disposals and ELITE for disposal efficiency at 83.5%. That's right, elite.

His kicking efficiency, also elite, running at 84%. Also elite for Contested and intercept possessions.

I'll repeat myself here, but your fascination with CJ, and that you felt the need to bump a three week old autopsy thread to suggest he is not a good user in the face of his actual output, is odd.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Without wanting to be impolite…

Its clear to me that saying CJ has any room for improvement is an insult somehow.

This is such a really poor post to make.

You are arguing in here that CJ doesn't use the ball well, and you've said Hawks fans would be concerned when he has the ball.

Don't make out like people are saying he can't improve, because not one single person has said that.

 

[eldorado]

Its clear to me that saying CJ has any room for improvement is an insult somehow.

Where has this come from? Who has an issue with the idea that CJ can improve?

Athleticism, close down speed, breaks defensive lines, is a really great kid, the players love him (as do the fans including me) and the list goes on…please add to my list…

Disposal efficiency.

Feel free to keep your heart in your mouth waiting for for clangers, though.

 

[eldorado]

Yes, I'm saying he's a good ball user, because it's a verifiable fact.

This year, CJ is above average for disposals and ELITE for disposal efficiency at 83.5%. That's right, elite.

His kicking efficiency, also elite, running at 84%. Also elite for Contested and intercept possessions.

Pah, you amateur, bringing your so-called 'statistics' up against real feelpinions...

 

[Holy Rioli]

Considering how hard he flogged himself to run with Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

all day on Easter Monday, and especially late in the game you could really see him disposing under considerable fatigue, I was super wrapped with his performance and disposal overall. It's those types of games that are worth 10 in future development.