Round 3:- Blues V Bombers pre match discussion

[parrot]

I don't understand why you keep saying we got 'thrashed' by Port 2 weeks ago....

Because a very ordinary side like Port thumped you by 41 points only 2 weeks ago. I mean, what bit of that don't you understand? Do you need a link to the scoreboard perhaps? Next you'll be bragging about being level with them at the start of the first quarter. It's called Straw Clutching.

 

[pazza]

Because Port thumped you by 41 points. I mean, what bit of that don't you understand. Next you'll be bragging about being level with them at the start of the first quarter. Straw clutching.

It wasn't a thumping...if anything, the scoreboard at the end flattered Port, given what has panned out since then. Most Essendon people were extremely happy with the 4 quarter effort that we put in.

Why? Because there were many positives - the final 41 point margin was not a true reflection of the game. I think even Choco himself was disappointed with the way Port played for the most part.

Examples:

Hocking's game on S. Burgoyne
Watson's 30+ possession effort
Hurley's impressive game on Tredrea, keeping the latter goal-less.
McPhee proving to be a good 3rd forward option

I still maintain that apart from simple bias, I think this discussion would be better suited with a more professional and dare I say learned effort in which both teams' fans can illustrate where each side can win and why each side won't.

I still think that the game will have a margin of under 1 goal either way by the final siren. And my resoning is simple:

Rucks: Hille and Ryder v Kreuzer and Jacobs. The relative inexperience of the Carlton pair compared to the Essendon pair sees an advantage to the Essendon pair.

Midfields: Carlton probably do have the better midfield than Essendon, moreso now given that Essendon have ruled out McVeigh today. The main concern is the defensive side of the midfield. On what I've seen, Essendon's tackling numbers and inferred pressure on the ball carrier is a good sign - because often it's not whether you have the ball - it's what you do when you don't have it. As a rule, Essendon doesn't zone off like a Hawthorn or a St. Kilda, it's more man-on-man. Carlton seem to play similiarly to how Geelong does with it's midfield, so it's not a total win to the Blues, but, there is enough going for them to win there.

Defence/Forward: By losing Jamison, it won't be an easy task for Carlton's defence to take on a Bomber forward line that could have 3 tall forwards and at least 1 mid-sized marking target in it. Conversely - Essendon's defence aside from Fletcher and to a lesser extent Slattery, is incredibly inexperienced with a lot of skinny bodies, so Fevola et al should be in a good enough position to exploit that - is Fev going to be fully fit though?

 

[40yearBLUE]

Parrot, I so want to rip into this one ^^^^^ , but its yours so I wont be greedy.

 

[ESKIE]

It wasn't a thumping...if anything, the scoreboard at the end flattered Port, given what has panned out since then. Most Essendon people were extremely happy with the 4 quarter effort that we put in.

Why? Because there were many positives - the final 41 point margin was not a true reflection of the game. I think even Choco himself was disappointed with the way Port played for the most part.

Examples:

Hocking's game on S. Burgoyne
Watson's 30+ possession effort
Hurley's impressive game on Tredrea, keeping the latter goal-less.
McPhee proving to be a good 3rd forward option

I still maintain that apart from simple bias, I think this discussion would be better suited with a more professional and dare I say learned effort in which both teams' fans can illustrate where each side can win and why each side won't.

I still think that the game will have a margin of under 1 goal either way by the final siren. And my resoning is simple:

Rucks: Hille and Ryder v Kreuzer and Jacobs. The relative inexperience of the Carlton pair compared to the Essendon pair sees an advantage to the Essendon pair.

Midfields: Carlton probably do have the better midfield than Essendon, moreso now given that Essendon have ruled out McVeigh today. The main concern is the defensive side of the midfield. On what I've seen, Essendon's tackling numbers and inferred pressure on the ball carrier is a good sign - because often it's not whether you have the ball - it's what you do when you don't have it. As a rule, Essendon doesn't zone off like a Hawthorn or a St. Kilda, it's more man-on-man. Carlton seem to play similiarly to how Geelong does with it's midfield, so it's not a total win to the Blues, but, there is enough going for them to win there.

Defence/Forward: By losing Jamison, it won't be an easy task for Carlton's defence to take on a Bomber forward line that could have 3 tall forwards and at least 1 mid-sized marking target in it. Conversely - Essendon's defence aside from Fletcher and to a lesser extent Slattery, is incredibly inexperienced with a lot of skinny bodies, so Fevola et al should be in a good enough position to exploit that - is Fev going to be fully fit though?

I'm really wondering if you Essending dongs are so confident that you are putting your money where your mouth is because the bookies odds for an Essendon win are huge..if you are so confident...go for it....
A safer bet maybe the Essendon for the spoon at $8.00...4th favourite...now I'd like to see that !!!
Blues by 28

 

[pazza]

I don't think that we'll win at all...you guys should win.

But, I remain to be convinced that it will be a total and utter smashing!

 

[blueblooded]

Midfields: Carlton probably do have the better midfield than Essendon, moreso now given that Essendon have ruled out McVeigh today. The main concern is the defensive side of the midfield. On what I've seen, Essendon's tackling numbers and inferred pressure on the ball carrier is a good sign - because often it's not whether you have the ball - it's what you do when you don't have it. As a rule, Essendon doesn't zone off like a Hawthorn or a St. Kilda, it's more man-on-man. Carlton seem to play similiarly to how Geelong does with it's midfield, so it's not a total win to the Blues, but, there is enough going for them to win there.

Defence/Forward: By losing Jamison, it won't be an easy task for Carlton's defence to take on a Bomber forward line that could have 3 tall forwards and at least 1 mid-sized marking target in it. Conversely - Essendon's defence aside from Fletcher and to a lesser extent Slattery, is incredibly inexperienced with a lot of skinny bodies, so Fevola et al should be in a good enough position to exploit that - is Fev going to be fully fit though?

Probably?? Stop pumping up your tyres mate, even with Mc Veigh in you wouldn't compare to the midfield that carlton has put on the field the last two weeks!! Go watch the 2nd Quarter of last weeks game against Brisbane and have a look at what our midfield did to a brisbane midfield of Black, Power, Johnstone, Adcock etc in the space of twenty minutes!! If we can recapture that form for the same amount of time during saturday night it'll be game over, the Bombers do not have the experience and the class through the middle to get back into the contest if it blows out early as Brisbane did.

It all comes down to whether we turn up switched on or not, if we do it'll be a comfortable victory. Essendons only hope is that we are not on. Most of the real experts would agree.

 

[Boucks09]

You are seriously slow arent you. And persistant and annoying, like that one blowie that seems immune to Aerogard but also has no problem being slapped down again and again. I am starting to feel like a bully becuase you offer absolutely no resistance to the continual bitch slaps you are getting on here.

Here it is for you again one very very last time because teaching developmentally challanged kids is not my specialty, I dont have the patience for it.

And finally, you and your dumbass mates are clearly lost and learning impaired, that plus the fact you are downright rude to be insulting our inteligence with your posts ON OUR BOARD. You cerebral giant.

Pretty sure the words in bold would classify you as being 'downright rude and insulting our intelligence'. I don't think Dick has come onto the Carlton board and claimed all Carlton posters are 'dumbass mates and learning impaired'.

Assreimer, Zach, et al have shown no repeat zero, nada, bereft of signs of become elite. I asked you to show me your decent (another word for elite) mid prospects.

decent - of an acceptable standard; satisfactory
elite - group of people considered to be superior in society or an organisation

The two words are completely different so that probably explains your complete lack of understanding regarding why we rate Reimers and Zaharakis as decent midfield prospects.

You have mid prospects, anyone apparantly that ever put his hand up in under 9's when the coach said who wants a go in the centre is a mid prospect down your way BUT NONE OF THEM ARE DECENT OR SHOW ANY SIGN OF EVER BEING DECENT/ELITE. Got it now pinhead?

I would say that a 21 possession first game (Zaharakis) is satisfactory and a sign of the potential to become elite, as I would regarding Mitch Robinson's first game. I would also say that a Rising Star nomination means something given that it is judged against the best talent in the entire league. You don't just get a nomination because you were a midfielder in U/9's.

Murph and Gibbs both had future champion stickers in their draft camp books, right next to the elephant stamps.

That is said about every single Number 1 draft pick in the history of the game. Hence why the go at Number 1. If a Murphy or Gibbs was already surpassed by a Reimers or Lonergan 3 and 4 years down the track (two Essendon midfielders from the corresponding drafts) it would make your selections look rather silly.

You clearly know nothing about nor have studied any of the past half dozen drafts.

Again it's obvious that a Number 1 pick has a higher chance of becoming elite. You don't need to study a draft to know that. It is also worth noting that we took KPP with our first two picks in those drafts (Ryder and Gumbleton). With that in mind I would argue that bar Murphy and Gibbs (becauss we took Ryder and Gumbleton) our midfield talent from the last two drafts has shown more positive signs than yours:

2005
Dempsey and Lonergan vs ?

2006
Davey, Houli and Remiers vs Grigg, Benjamin and Anderson

There is not a recruiter in the land that did not mark them down as future or already elite and not a club that wouldnt have snapped them up if available nor wouldnt trade their first born for them if they were ever on the market.

I guess we will see the the GC comes in and is looking for some ready made midfield talent and what they offer up as bait.

Correct, what Hille did last year is about as relevent to Essendon this year as what Fraser Gerhig did 2 years ago is to the Saints this year. So far this year Gerhig has done better at AFL level than Hille, at least Gerhig wasnt dacked twice and had his little botty spanked.

You can't be serious here surely? I'd hardly say Hille has been 'dacked'. Let's see how Kreuzer and Cloke go against Sandilands, Brogan and Lade.

Being nominated for a rising star means the player played, let me see how do they choose again, oh thats right, 1, count em with me 1 good game.

If you have a look through all of the nominations from the past 15 years you would find that the vast majority (I would say 75%) have gone onto be quality AFL players. So I would say that it counts for more than playing one good game at AFL level.

FFS even Cain Ackland played 1 good game for Carlton. Do you rate him? Cos we sure do around here, NOT.

This is completely irrelevant to the discuss about Zaharakis and Reimers. Ackland came to Carlton at the age of 25 having already played 53 games. To compare him to players who are 18 and 20 and have played 1 and 18 games shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

But given Hilles form, he would be welcome down at winless hill right now.

And I can assure you he is. He is our best and fairest. And btw it's not winless hill as we have already won a game this year.


Good luck on Saturday night I'm sure it will be a great game. I'm really enjoying all the build up on here it's been a lot of fun and has fired up some old rivalries as I actually enjoy watching the current Carlton team play.

 

[ESKIE]

Beautifully said sir! Zaharakis was bog for the bombers last week showing how inept the rest of his elder teammates are when it takes a first gamer to show the rest of the squad how to hit a target inside forward fifty.

Well done to Essendon on finally finding a player that can use the football to advantage instead of turning it over ala Jobe Watson.

If Mitch Robinson was playing at Essendon he would be their number one midfielder after 2 games and a certainty for the rising star!!

I wanna absolutely smash this mob this weekend, on paper they do not deserve to clean up after us let alone sit on the same dinner table!! I know matches are not won on paper but if we come to play i want to make these pricks hurt like they made us hurt with that 99 point drubbing a few years back!! I just hope the lads turn up ready to put in a 4 qtr performance, if they do these scum supporters wont be seen on here for a while such is the pain that'll be inflicted!

Now stop coming on here telling us how much better your players are than ours when the whole football world knows that is not the case!!! Win lose or draw saturday night i'm confident we'll be challenging for the big prize a helluva lot sooner than that list that wondercoach sheedy left you guys with! Have fun cleaning up that mess Knights!

Nice work Blue Blooded

 

[parrot]

It wasn't a thumping...if anything, the scoreboard at the end flattered Port, given ....

Scoreboard says you were thumped by 41 points by another bottom 4 favourite, Port. Not sure how you can spin that as a positive. It was a complete disaster.

 

[EssendonPride]

Nice work Blue Blooded

Yep he sure showed us. A player averaging 15.5 disposals would be our best midfielder for sure......

 

[EssendonPride]

Scoreboard says you were thumped by 41 points by another bottom 4 favourite, Port. Not sure how you can spin that as a positive. It was a complete disaster.

Ok, so a bottom 4 club beat us by 41.
How much will "premiership contender" carlton beat us by?

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

Ok, so a bottom 4 club beat us by 41.
How much will "premiership contender" carlton beat us by?

one....17 to 16

 

[CarltonFan]

We have recruited players with the aim of replacing them.
Hurley, Pears, Daniher, Gumbleton, Neagle, Ryder. Yes they're young, but the signs are pretty good.

are you serious?

 

[Skeeta Olly]

Now stop coming on here telling us how much better your players are than ours when the whole football world knows that is not the case

Sure, when you return the favour.

I guess you will probably know, McVeigh is out for us which is a decent blow.

 

[EssendonPride]

are you serious?

Very. I listed 6 key position players.

Gumbleton - Injuries, may never overcome them, then again, maybe he will. Very highly rated junior, the wildcard of the bunch.
Neagle - Shown glimpses here and there. Big endurance worries atm, we'll see with him.

Ryder - Looks quality.
Pears, Daniher and Hurley all look capable thus far. It's very early, and we won't know for sure for a while.

I said the signs are pretty good.

Show me otherwise?

 

[Boucks09]

Because a very ordinary side like Port thumped you by 41 points only 2 weeks ago. I mean, what bit of that don't you understand? Do you need a link to the scoreboard perhaps? Next you'll be bragging about being level with them at the start of the first quarter. It's called Straw Clutching.

Rather than cutting off half of the quote to suit your own purposes why don't you deal with what I actually said in all its entirety...it's not as if you are a sub par illeterate journalist.

When you are within 3 goals of a side with 10 minutes left and lose by 41 points that is not a 'thumping'. Going off your thought processes, it would be fair to say that Essendon thumped Carlton last year when we beat you by 35 points in Round 13 and finished in the bottom half of the ladder. Such naive views would ignore the fact that you actually hit the front in the last quarter and came back from a large quarter time deficiet.

 

[Dick johnson]

I asked you to show me your decent (another word for elite) mid prospects.

you need to have another read of websters
as for the rest of the post, i'm not going to bother to explain the same thing to you for the fourth time. you obviously dont understand anything except carlton = unstoppable, and everyone else = has no chance

 

[CarltonFan]

Very. I listed 6 key position players.

Gumbleton - Injuries, may never overcome them, then again, maybe he will. Very highly rated junior, the wildcard of the bunch.
Neagle - Shown glimpses here and there. Big endurance worries atm, we'll see with him.

Ryder - Looks quality.
Pears, Daniher and Hurley all look capable thus far. It's very early, and we won't know for sure for a while.

I said the signs are pretty good.

Show me otherwise?

Jake Edwards, Adam Hartlett and Brad Fisher have also shown 'signs'

 

[Buddyman]

is gartlett's spot secured in the 22 now?

 

[Malifice]

Rather than cutting off half of the quote to suit your own purposes why don't you deal with what I actually said in all its entirety...it's not as if you are a sub par illeterate journalist.
.

Ahh - the irony.

 

[Boucks09]

Ahh - the irony.

I was taking the piss as parrot has already questioned our football knowledge based on spelling.

 

[parrot]

....When you are within 3 goals of a side....

Excuses. You got thumped by Port by 41 points 2 weeks ago. Are you in denial?. Look at the scoreboard.

 

[Jeremias]

is gartlett's spot secured in the 22 now?

Not by a long shot.

The coaches love what he brings to the table in terms of his forward line pressure but the fact remains that he is still a kid and once our players that are probably in our best 22 start coming back into the fold, the young kids will probably make way.

 

[Monkey King]

Last year we took Hurley, which was the right choice and you would have taken him if he was available too.

This is true had the Bombers selected Yarran over Hurley; but if both had been available Yarran would still be in Blue.

 

[40yearBLUE]

It wasn't a thumping...if anything, the scoreboard at the end flattered Port, given what has panned out since then. Most Essendon people were extremely happy with the 4 quarter effort that we put in.

Why? Because there were many positives - the final 41 point margin was not a true reflection of the game. I think even Choco himself was disappointed with the way Port played for the most part.

Examples:

Hocking's game on S. Burgoyne
Watson's 30+ possession effort
Hurley's impressive game on Tredrea, keeping the latter goal-less.
McPhee proving to be a good 3rd forward option

I still maintain that apart from simple bias, I think this discussion would be better suited with a more professional and dare I say learned effort in which both teams' fans can illustrate where each side can win and why each side won't.

I still think that the game will have a margin of under 1 goal either way by the final siren. And my resoning is simple:

Rucks: Hille and Ryder v Kreuzer and Jacobs. The relative inexperience of the Carlton pair compared to the Essendon pair sees an advantage to the Essendon pair.

Midfields: Carlton probably do have the better midfield than Essendon, moreso now given that Essendon have ruled out McVeigh today. The main concern is the defensive side of the midfield. On what I've seen, Essendon's tackling numbers and inferred pressure on the ball carrier is a good sign - because often it's not whether you have the ball - it's what you do when you don't have it. As a rule, Essendon doesn't zone off like a Hawthorn or a St. Kilda, it's more man-on-man. Carlton seem to play similiarly to how Geelong does with it's midfield, so it's not a total win to the Blues, but, there is enough going for them to win there.

Defence/Forward: By losing Jamison, it won't be an easy task for Carlton's defence to take on a Bomber forward line that could have 3 tall forwards and at least 1 mid-sized marking target in it. Conversely - Essendon's defence aside from Fletcher and to a lesser extent Slattery, is incredibly inexperienced with a lot of skinny bodies, so Fevola et al should be in a good enough position to exploit that - is Fev going to be fully fit though?

Sorry Pazza, you may be a mod and all, but your argument is so full of holes, it would be remiss of me not to point them out to you.

1) you got a 7 goal beat down by a certain bottom 4 side. Many of your supporters have come on here bragging about how well you did against the dockers, another certain bottom 4 side, well you cant have it both ways, if you were "only just" beaten by a bottom 4 side in Port, then you equally "only just" beat another bottom 4 side in Freo. Sounds to me like you are (Port, Freo, Dons) all about equal and all bottom 4 sides.

2) 2 of the 4 players you mention playing well wont be playing on Sat (Hurley, McPhee) yet you maintain you are not the lay down fave for a belting in fact you think it will be a 1 goal game. 2 of your best 22 so far wont be out there and you think the rest of your already weak list is still gonna be enough to get within a kick of us. Come on?

3)Hille/Ryder v Kruze/Sauce you claim experience might tip this your way? Your rucks have lost their respective contests 2:1 and Ryder has 9 taps in 2 games. Kruze has achieved that in a quarter against one of the most experience rucks in Simmonds. We belted Richmonds rucks 2:1 and broke even with Brisbane pair Leuneburger and Charmin. (they had 4 more taps over the game than us 36 to 32) So experience dont count for squat when youre rucks are getting a hiding each week.

4) Our mids are PROBABLY better? Are you serious? and only becuase Mcveigh is not playing. Probably?? Judd, Gibbs, Murphy and Hadley are probably better than the 4 you can field this week or for that matter any week? Come on again??

5) By losing Jamo, our backs cant handle a forward line that contains Lloyd and Lucas who between them have mangaged 2 goals in 2 games? Really? I think our Bullants backline could contain your forward line the way they have played so far.

6) Your backs minus McPhee and possibly Rider as you know he may be needed to play forward, are going to be able to hold a forward set up that has kicked the highest score for the season so far?

So you claim to want to seriously debate, well here is your chance, without resorting to blind optimism, lets here you defend these points.