Toast Round 4 = Collingwood 77-72 Hawthorn

[Carringbush2010]

My two cents.

First half:

Watching from the lounge, you could see we had the intent to swarm and spread. Win the turnover in contest and then burn up the corridor and some sublime i50 entries to lead up forwards, if not a lead up forward, our swarm and i50 resembled what we were doing last year.

Admittedly, a little fumbly, none the less, everyone on the same page and we had the system to carve up the opposition. 38 pt lead at the half.

2nd half:

Ok let's take the jumper off and give em to the some impostors.

WTF is it when we had opportunity to burn up the corridor but we kick down the line to a flank, to a one on one?



What are we the dees now? Why the phuq fix what's not broken? This is not our one wood, and I'd really like to know why we went a different game plan, whatever it is, it's not working.

It allowed the hawks to play like we played in the first half, that's how Hardwick run rampant, they burned us on possession win and gave them oceans of space i50.

Something smells, you just don't turn off what's working to experiment with a different style of game. It looked like instruction to me.

Why Fly Why!!!

Had a chance to garner some percentage but more importantly gain some confidence.

But nup, can't have that. To be serious, mereckons the mc are afraid that sticking to 'last years' game style won't be good enough to win the whole box and dice - hence what looks like experimenting.

Even if it's a slight tweak, if it's not 100% on we'll get burnt. Can't be doing this after the bye.

 

[Bianconeri]

Nothing like 2012, we won games easily for almost the whole year and only lost 3 games for the year
and we are already there

We lost 6 games in the h+a season in 2012.

 

[loki04]

Honest question - do people here feel we might be relying too much on hanging on or coming from behind to win a game by a small margin, or is it that we legitimately don't have the cattle to finish off a team like the Hawks the way we should have tonight?

Just posing the question as I've seen a few comments on us putting the cue in the rack or trying to "conserve energy" that normally wouldn't resonate with how I'd like to see us play.

Confidence in being able to secure the win in a tight game is all and good, but there are games like tonight where we shouldn't need to resort to that - although the end result here was more a case of them running out of time than us controlling the outcome, if we're going to be perfectly frank abiut it.

Yes they had the momentum all through the last quarter.

We just need to take the win, I too have lemented for years we don't have a foot to throat mentality which imo started under Buckley.

 

[Jafo]

i think ginnivan has brought a lot of joy to the various commentators this year.... he has really tickled them and given them a dose of enthusiasm for the game. The last player who brought them this much joy was cyril...

As much as I liked Ginni when he was in Black & White and bear no grudge on him being a Hawthorn (or any other club for that matter), Ginni would be lucky enough to tie Cyril’s shoelaces they’re that far apart. Even if the commentators love him.

 

[Bianconeri]

Our tall forwards don’t lead properly and our forward line is almost always congested.

Our forwards don’t have any space to lead. We need the kickers to draw our forwards to the ball.

 

[sam_e]

In recent times, playing us is like their grand final. They build up to it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

exactly this. watched the game at a pub so couldn't really focus but they threw absolutely everything at us, particularly 2H

they were down on personnel, no doubt, and also down on scoreboard at HT but they put their bodies on the line, amped up the pressure to GF levels and were gagging to beat us ..they didn't

we didn't play at all well 2H but always prefer a win, especially against that mob

now the issues:
_Bolts & Leppa in more back of house roles i think has hurt our edge game day in coaches box ..use the bye week to re-set what's happening (or not) tactically & role wise, in the coaches box
_Murphy missing from defence exposes the many holes that he courageously filled ..will need to work through this cos he looks unlikely to get back any time soon
_Moore, needs to get back to some basics ..his decision-making as to when to go & when to stay has been deplorable
_IQ, has been v.poor for mine & needs to roll his sleeves up

 

[jjsmitty8]

Bullet dodged for sure, a little bit concerning that we let a side like Hawthorn back into the game like that. Easy to say in hindsight, but even when were putting a gap on the scoreboard I really couldn't help but feel we were still a little bit off. In saying that, it's a much needed win to keep us in the hunt for the season, plenty of learnings to take from it.

I also just want to add that I'm getting a little bit frustrated with Bobby Hill. I voiced this a few weeks ago, I want him to keep being flashy because that's what we all love about him. I feel like he's being selective and trying to do too much at times, and that's to the detriment of the team. I can't think of any stand out instances tonight but watch the passage from last week when Elliott nailed Zorko during the last quarter, just watch Bobby in the seconds before that and you'll see what I mean. It'd just be nice to see him body line the ball occasionally to just win us possession and help us settle instead of trying the 'Hollywood' option every time he's around the ball. Just my personal opinion, I'm all for flashy, but the basics count too.

 

[theaussietilt]

Reef looked dead on his feet in that 2nd half. His tank needs major work if he can get it there. Might be why he's often been a sub in the past.

True, I barely recall seeing him in the last quarter, when I did he was mostly getting outbodied which is something he's been fairly good at the last couple of weeks.

 

[thebaldfacts]

We legitimately don't have the cattle to finish off some teams.
Big wins last year were Gold Coast, West Coast Eagles, GWS (mother's day game) and Essendon (round 24)

Don't forget Port in round 2 at the MCG. A 12 goal thrashing.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You don’t like to individualise then have a go at cox which is a favourite sport on BF next to having a go at AJ and blaming him.

Cox is a tap ruckman and his taps to advantage are awesome, our mids just suck atm. Didn’t see Cameron or Meek dominate the ruck either but their names aren’t Cox.

I don’t usually like to individualise , yes. And always been a supporter of Mason. Felt I had to do so today. Could not take a mark forward which he is expected to when we don’t have a key forward….and gave away a number of free kicks in the ruck contests. Thought he was poor today. Cameron was better.

 

[sr36]

So his preseason games were just fools gold.

In preseason he competed in the ruck well and made a contest around the ground.

But looks like we need ro reinvest in Rucks again and KPF talent.

Even if you are happy with Darcy and Cox given thier respective ages and the length it takes for rucks to develop we should be having 2 running around in the 2nds and I dont count the KPP sized Begg.
If Steene is no good (as in not even vfl level) a call needs to be made.

I didn't see the preseason games, but watched most of the VFL games last year. 1 or 2 things a game that got your attention, but not in it for most of the game. Potential, as he does do some really impressive things, but I'd be surprised if he's ready yet.

 

[lyfsux]

We lost 6 games in the h+a season in 2012.

2012 AFL ladder

4	Collingwood	22	16	6	0	2123	1823	116.5	64

We lost 6 games in the h+a season in 2012.

And this is why I usually don't make bold statements because I always f**k them up

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I had a feeling we would be cooked in the last.

Awful first 5 weeks.

The bye was much needed, I expect we come out a different team now.

I agree. I think we played fantastic in the first half, I loved what I saw.

Some on here seem to be forgetting how many games we've played in a short space of time with 3 interstate trips.

It looked like the boys had left for bye by the 3rd qtr.

A few negative nancies thought we'd be 1-4 going into the bye.

Much needed break to start the season again in round 6 at 2-3 & no need for panic stations.

 

[GoldenMagpie16]

The Roll continues.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

A wins a win. We were 0-3 now we are 2-3 after three interstate games in 5 games. The players are not robots. Some of the criticism on here is not accounting for the brutal start to the season.

Now we basically play three games in the next month. Time to recharge. The competition is so even other than North and WC, there will be a lot of unexpected results.

Plenty of time to come good. We dont need to be playing like premiers now. We just need to qualify for finals.

We have 12 MCG games to go 3! Marvel and for some reason we will have 5! Interstate games this year. AFL have done us no favours

Port, Essendon and the scum. We need 2 out of three wins and honestly I don’t care how ugly we win so long as we win now.

I am assuming the inconsistency and training loads with all these games may have played a factor. The start of the AFL season for us is bullshit.

Celebrate any win. We learn more from an ugly loss than a 10 goal win.

Go Pies.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We always have had four interstate games in the past. Add Gather round ( which isn’t really an away game) and it’s 5. Nothing has changed. But we have knocked off three travel games already!

 

[sr36]

Me and the kids said the same thing tonight. We win there despite never playing that well there.

It being so thin means that it just ends up with down the line contests and when you do break a line - it's length means it's an extra half a kick to get across the line.

 

[loki04]

Nothing like 2012, we won games easily for almost the whole year and only lost 3 games for the year
and we are already there

Despite that, it was evident early that we couldn't quite get it right or replicate our 2011 form.

 

[LuckyLee]

Our forwards don’t have any space to lead. We need the kickers to draw our forwards to the ball.

How do they do that if there’s no space to kick into? The forwards’ poor movement and teamwork is more of the problem than the ball carriers’ delivery, IMO.

Compounding the problem, we don’t have any forwards capable of kicking goals from outside 50m, which makes us extremely predictable. Forwards like Jezza Cameron, Tex Walker, Jack Lukosius and Joe Danniher create so much space and opportunity because they are genuine scoring threats from as far as 60m out.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[manicpie]

I agree. I think we played fantastic in the first half, I loved what I saw.

Some on here seem to be forgetting how many games we've played in a short space of time with 3 interstate trips.

It looked like the boys had left for bye by the 3rd qtr.

A few negative nancies thought we'd be 1-4 going into the bye.

Much needed break to start the season again in round 6 at 2-3 & no need for panic stations.

We'll need to beat Port because today was full of concerns. We can't score once sides outnumber us around the contest. To let a very average player in hardwick, nearly turn the game was very disappointing. It only took hardwick and Newcombe to nearly pinch the game from us. We need to be much better than that

 

[TradeDraft]

True, I barely recall seeing him in the last quarter, when I did he was mostly getting outbodied which is something he's been fairly good at the last couple of weeks.

Did the ball even get into our F50 in last Qtr?

 

[sr36]

My two cents.

First half:

Watching from the lounge, you could see we had the intent to swarm and spread. Win the turnover in contest and then burn up the corridor and some sublime i50 entries to lead up forwards, if not a lead up forward, our swarm and i50 resembled what we were doing last year.

Admittedly, a little fumbly, none the less, everyone on the same page and we had the system to carve up the opposition. 38 pt lead at the half.

2nd half:

Ok let's take the jumper off and give em to the some impostors.

WTF is it when we had opportunity to burn up the corridor but we kick down the line to a flank, to a one on one?



What are we the dees now? Why the phuq fix what's not broken? This is not our one wood, and I'd really like to know why we went a different game plan, whatever it is, it's not working.

It allowed the hawks to play like we played in the first half, that's how Hardwick run rampant, they burned us on possession win and gave them oceans of space i50.

Something smells, you just don't turn off what's working to experiment with a different style of game. It looked like instruction to me.

Why Fly Why!!!

Had a chance to garner some percentage but more importantly gain some confidence.

But nup, can't have that. To be serious, mereckons the mc are afraid that sticking to 'last years' game style won't be good enough to win the whole box and dice - hence what looks like experimenting.

Even if it's a slight tweak, if it's not 100% on we'll get burnt. Can't be doing this after the bye.

You've got to switch to the clear side at Adelaide oval - wings are too narrow and not enough space. Pretty clear that we were instructed to try to switch today, but we are pretty bad at switching.

 

[sr36]

Did the ball even get into our F50 in last Qtr?

We went into nobody score mode too early. Ahead of the ball, it was Checkers versus 3 for much of that last quarter.

 

[anshell]

We legitimately don't have the cattle to finish off some teams.
Big wins last year were Gold Coast, West Coast Eagles, GWS (mother's day game) and Essendon (round 24)

And Port Adelaide,71 points.So we did have some big wins against some of the better teams in the competition last year.We don’t look like doing it this year,though,

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Some people whipping themselves into a negative, pile on frenzy after tonight's match.

Have a cuppa & a lie down .. we have a bye.

 

[CPH12]

Really hope we persist with Reef. Just needs a good run at it, another almost game with a shot spoiled through on the line and a mark not paid in the goal square. Also probably had the mark covered in 1st qtr before Elliott came over the top.
We look lethargic which can be put down to the schedule but also a bit of hunger. Can see it between how noble attacks it compared to crisp atm. Best way to combat that is through youth, so would be great to see mcrae and Harrison given a good look.
Our 2 ruckman strategy ain't working, as neither are providing a good forward target. Cameron has 4 for the year and has been pretty good, but cox has yet to trouble the scorers. This is seriously hurting and yes there are limited options, but they may need to get creative. As long as frampton doesn't get shifted as he has been great this year.