Round 5 - Carlton Vs Adelaide - Etihad Stadium

[Dramoth]

IN: McLean/Ellard, O'hAilpin, Bower
OUT: Carrazzo, Hampson, Collins

Yarran Jamison Duigan
Russell Bower Laidler
Simpson Curnow Scotland
Walker Waite Garlett
White O'hAilpin Robinson
Warnock Judd Murphy

Ellard Scotland Betts*

Ellard/McLean in the clinches would let us have Robbo
play more as the defensive forward/link up HF.

edit: I've left Hendo out somewhere..

As I said before... drop Betts and bring Ellard in as a small forward rotating into the midfield with Curnow.

Why does everyone automatically assume that Setanta is going to have more of an impact if we bring him back in next week than Henderson had yesterday for his first game back for the season.

They have both been out injured in the preseason and Henderson has one more VFL match than Carlos has had.

If we bring in Setanta and he has as bad a game as Henderson had, we will have all the usual nuffies, trolls and just plain outright idiots on here calling for him to be dropped and for Ratts to be sacked. Despite the fact that most of those morons were the ones calling for Setanta to be included in the team next week.

Henderson has just made it back into the side after an interrupted preseason. I think that he might have been brought back a bit too early, I would have personally left him in the Ants for a couple more weeks and then brought him back in. At least then he has more match fitness and should be ready to slot back into the side properly.

But then we are stuck with Thornton who really offers nothing much up front apart from a marking presence and a couple of goals. He has no defensive pressure and his opponent runs off him too easily. We could play White in the forward line. He came to us as a defender, but played as a forward in his junior years.

 

[cold_as_ice]

As I said before... drop Betts and bring Ellard in as a small forward rotating into the midfield with Curnow.

Do you honestly think our forward line will be better without Betts?

Need his forward pressure and his ability to make something of nothing, without him we would have lost to Richmond....which would be unacceptable.

 

[iRemember87]

I'd drop Betts before Collins. Otherwise those changes aren't bad.

Collins needed to show more with his chances so far - Betts has the runs on the board, and although I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he were dropped, could thrive with someone like Setanta back in the team.

Agree with you Thy 150%.

PPG, although Betts has runs on the board and may thrive with Setanta in the team, however over the past few weeks the ball has been on the ground a lot and he has just not doen much.

Last year he struggled IMO, came good in the 2nd half of the year.

Betts just seems to have dropped his pressure and run, a drop to the Ants is a good sign to players including Betts that their place isn't a given.

My opinion.

For me;
Outs: Betts, Hammer
Ins: Bower, Armfield


B: Laidler - Jamison - Duigan
HB: Scotland - Bower - Yarran

C: Gibbs - Curnow - Simpson

HF: Robinson - Henderson - Carrots
F: Walker - Waite - Garlett

R: Warnock, Judd, Murphy

I/C: Collins, Russell, White (Armfield)

My changes would leave Warnock to do the rucking solo, but think we can be more creative, using Henderson/Waite when the ball is forward and leave Warnock to ruck the middle and down back (down back we need to be smarter with 3rd man up tap work).

Bower important to our spine structure, freeing up Laidler/Duigan to play third man up spoiler and runner.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Why does everyone automatically assume that Setanta is going to have more of an impact if we bring him back in next week than Henderson had yesterday for his first game back for the season.

They have both been out injured in the preseason and Henderson has one more VFL match than Carlos has had

No one is assuming, they are suggesting.

It didn't seem from the reports that Henderson had even been dominating in the reserves before his inclusion, yet Setanta seemingly had a pretty good game.

Henderson replaced Thornton who had at least displayed reasonable form, whereas Hampson hasn't exactly done that much. Setanta won't have to do much to equal Hampson, so I'm not sure it is a game costing gamble if he has an average game.

Not sure the comparison with Henderson means much in relation to this decision.

 

[BrandonG]

Out: Collins , White , Hampson
In: O'Hailpin , Mclean , Army

 

[CrippsonBlue]

PPG, although Betts has runs on the board and may thrive with Setanta in the team, however over the past few weeks the ball has been on the ground a lot and he has just not doen much

Fair point. I certainly am not going to mount a strong case for Betts, but if it's a choice between him and Collins (which it shouldn't be), than it's no choice at all imo.

 

[ESKIE]

Must win this one, Sydney await Round 6 at the SCG after a bye...

Fast quick scoring at Etihad, we should win

 

[The Grover]

In: Lucas, McLean
Out: Collins, Carrazzo

On notice; hampson,Betts,Russell

B: Russell Jamison Laidler
HB: Yarran White Duigan
C: Simpson Curnow Gibbs
HF: Garlett Waite Robinson
F: Betts Warnock Walker

R: Hampson Judd Murphy

Int:Scotland McLean Henderson
Sub: Lucas


Would love to drop Hampson & bring in Setanta, but I think Irish needs another VFL game.

Therefore lets play Warnock more forward, & let Hampson do more ruck work.

Only up against Maric this week.

On the smaller Etihad there will be lots of contested ball at stoppages which McLean can help.

Sub Lucas on for laidler or Duigan to give more run in last qtr.

The only shut down I'd consider is on Johncock, maybe Robbo or Walker for this job.


Must win this week, if not Ratten is history.

 

[bluey1314]

If the MC decide to stick with Collins against the Crows i will rip up my membership.

He's a liability to the team and a passenger. We dont need them in our team. I thought that we lacked some leg speed in the backline. Army should come back in.

 

[Team Mo']

McLean can come in after his game today. McLean and Judd to go inside. Curnow to be another midfielder who is more inside with hopefully Murphy, Gibbs and Simpson delivering to our tall timber. We really need to sort out some kind of structure and running patterns with Waite and Henderson because at the moment it seems to just be kicking itlong and hoping for Waite to take a screamer or for Betts/Garlett to crumb the perfect ball which happens maybe once a game.

Henderson to be better for the run. Needs to use his body and crash some packs. Too many times he was "wafting" with his arms in both tackles and pack marks. I don't care if he doesn't kick a bag or get 20 touches. He just needs to be a "presence!"

Can't decide whether if Collins goes. He gets the ball but really looked out of sorts. I guess we've given the likes of Hampson, Betts and Carrazzo longer goes at it so maybe another week in? He fought his way in just like Setanta and McLean will do/have.

Setanta is the forgotten man. He was our main forward at the start of last year. Then injuries and form got him out of the side but he is still capable of kicking 2/3 goals a game and supporting Warnock. Warnock is fit enough to go all day and Setanta is a better option around the ground with Hampson. I'm afraid the experiment is over and some might say; "Where is Jetta!?!?!"

 

[ESKIE]

In: Lucas, McLean
Out: Collins, Carrazzo

On notice; hampson,Betts,Russell

B: Russell Jamison Laidler
HB: Yarran White Duigan
C: Simpson Curnow Gibbs
HF: Garlett Waite Robinson
F: Betts Warnock Walker

R: Hampson Judd Murphy

Int:Scotland McLean Henderson
Sub: Lucas


Would love to drop Hampson & bring in Setanta, but I think Irish needs another VFL game.

Therefore lets play Warnock more forward, & let Hampson do more ruck work.

Only up against Maric this week.

On the smaller Etihad there will be lots of contested ball at stoppages which McLean can help.

Sub Lucas on for laidler or Duigan to give more run in last qtr.

The only shut down I'd consider is on Johncock, maybe Robbo or Walker for this job.


Must win this week, if not Ratten is history.

There is a possibility that Jacobs may play apparently

I really Hendo needs another run in the Ants, Sentanta did well as did Thornton in the Ants today, so food for thought. Maybe Carlos for Hammer?

Bower & Ellard both in the best today.

 

[a1118374]

There is a possibility that Jacobs may play apparently

I really Hendo needs another run in the Ants, Sentanta did well as did Thornton in the Ants today, so food for thought. Maybe Carlos for Hammer?

Bower & Ellard both in the best today.

I saw Jacobs play Friday night, second game back from injury (I think) and he was reasonable. Took some good marks, but the crowd didn't seem impressed with his ruckwork. I thought it was fine. Even so, Maric would be a more likely ruck inclusion i think if they do ditch Maric (which they should). You wouldn't think Jacobs has the fitness to carry the ruck.

Either way we should smash them in the ruck.

Anything but an easy win here and there will be serious questions. Adelaide have a barebones list at the moment

 

[ESKIE]

I saw Jacobs play Friday night, second game back from injury (I think) and he was reasonable. Took some good marks, but the crowd didn't seem impressed with his ruckwork. I thought it was fine. Even so, Maric would be a more likely ruck inclusion i think if they do ditch Maric (which they should). You wouldn't think Jacobs has the fitness to carry the ruck.

Either way we should smash them in the ruck.

Anything but an easy win here and there will be serious questions. Adelaide have a barebones list at the moment

Great thanks for the update

I agree an comfortable win is a MUST

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Judging by the write-up and stats posted in the Bullants thread the following would have to come into consideration: T-Bird 4 goals, Carlos 4 goals, Bower and Brock 20+ possessions.
The Crowbots fell apart when the blowtorch was applied as they are seriously undermanned. Westhoff and Chaplin as mobile talls had a field day so I'd say Carlos and Bower, come on down.

 

[thylacine60]

Maric being sold for a bucket of prawns on the Adelaide Board.

 

[choo]

Ellard to come in as a defensive forward.
Port Adelaide tagged Johncock with Surjan
we should do same.

Ellard for Betts
Setanta for Hampson
Bower for Collins

White = Walker
Jammo - Tippett

Bower Sub

 

[Team Mo']

Maric being sold for a bucket of prawns on the Adelaide Board.

I love prawns. No way in this day and age would I give them up for Maric. Do they come with cocktail sauce?

 

[blueblooded]

Out: Collins
In: Bower

As much as i want the MC to drop Carrazzo after his performance on Saturday they wont drop him, he works hard lays tackles etc and if you do that it doesn't matter if you dispose of the football with a butchers machete u will get a game apparently. Would love to see McLean come in for him but don't think it will happen, one thing that we have to stop doing is having Carazzo end up on the end of every possession chain delivering the ball, he has to know his limitations as well, once yesteray he had yarran running with him and could have given it off but he wanted to take the kick, unacceptable in my opinion players need to get the ball into the hands of Yarran and Gibbs as much as possible especially when they are running side by side with them on the wing!

Walker has got to play the full game as far as i'm concerned gives us another leading option at half forward and we lacked that yesterday for most of the day.

Crows will be tough and they'll be smarting after yesterday so we've got to be on our game!

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I love prawns. No way in this day and age would I give them up for Maric. Do they come with cocktail sauce?

Lemon & Dill.

Thank me later...

 

[Claypigeon]

We really need an effective defensive forward while Houlihan is out. The opposition's third man up and thier ability to rebound off half back is hurting us at the moment. I've seen Carrazzo down there a few times (Hodge 09, Dempsey last year and Deledio this year) and I'd have him there, he's not offering us quite enough all round in the midfield.

I don't like our forward structure, I think the rucks need to spend more time resting on the bench and go forward mostly when our KPFs are resting. Three big talls down there is no good when we're trying to base our game around a forward press. Would rather a few midfielders rotate through there in place of the ruck and maybe even another one in place of Betts as it would give our midfield another option which could be handy when we have McLean, Lucas, Ellard and Armfield to come into the team.

I like your thinking. ..

Has Laidler done a lot wrong ?

Be great to bring in Bower but keep Laidler some way and just settle down our back 6 or 7.

I was all ready to suggest dropping one of our back 6, for Bower, until I read through this thread. ..

This wont likely happen but I think to fit in Bower and not dump on our back 6 that has been getting better from week to week, we need to think outside the square. .. how about this:


FB: Russell Jamison White
HB: Yarran Bower Duigan

Ce: Scotland Gibbs Simpson

HF: Laidler* Henderson Garlett
FB: Walker Waite Curnow

Ru: Warnock Judd Murphy

In: Robinson Thornton** Betts***

Sub: Carrazzo****

In: Bower, Thornton
Out: Collins, Hampson

* Give Laidler the defensive forward role, got a decent kick and a good grab, if it works than our flexibility stocks surge. .. If it doesn't work, he can always swing back and Duigan/Betts/Robisnon can swing forward

** I think the smaller ground is the perfect opportunity to try something different. .. use Thornton as the second ruck. .. Only works if Warnock is 100% (got a knock to his knee apparently). .. Thornton can also be used to rest Waite/Henderson. .. Irish is another option but I'd prefer to see him play one more good Ants game first. ..

*** Start Betts on the bench, to send a message. .. Then inject him into the midfield first. .. He can then rotate forward and do some damage while the Crows sort out his match up. ..

**** Would love to throw Ellard in here but Carrazzo does not deserve to be completely dropped yet

 

[Swade]

I'd drop Betts before Collins. Otherwise those changes aren't bad.

Theres just no way betts will go before collins, after watching the game from the stands on saturday and also just rewatched the game, and betts did some really nice things, missed a couple of snaps but at least he had the opportunity to take them, there was also a 4 on 1 right outside our 50 which eddie locked up and won, thats a huge win to come out even against a 4 on 1

whereas collins ruined nearly every attempt of ours at going forward, he was a complete disaster, his highlights were a mark and 2 easy misses, those were the highlights...every other possession of his was either holding the ball, or a direct turnover, after hearing big wraps on him i was really disappointed, he is clearly not up to it, should be the first dropped this week

 

[thylacine60]

Theres just no way betts will go before collins, after watching the game from the stands on saturday and also just rewatched the game, and betts did some really nice things, missed a couple of snaps but at least he had the opportunity to take them, there was also a 4 on 1 right outside our 50 which eddie locked up and won, thats a huge win to come out even against a 4 on 1

whereas collins ruined nearly every attempt of ours at going forward, he was a complete disaster, his highlights were a mark and 2 easy misses, those were the highlights...every other possession of his was either holding the ball, or a direct turnover, after hearing big wraps on him i was really disappointed, he is clearly not up to it, should be the first dropped this week

I'm thinking we disagree pretty large.

 

[Swade]

I'm thinking we disagree pretty large.

I'd just like to clear something up, you rated collins performance ahead of betts? that cant be right, or maybe your just judging him more harshly due to the fact that you know he can impact a game more than what hes shown, like i said, apart from 1 mark on the lead, collins lost every single contest, i'd like to be pointed towards a situation involving collins where he didnt completely ruin our momentum with either a holding the ball or a direct turnover, im not being a smartass i just watched the game, and off the top of my head, that 1 mark on the lead was the only situation he came out on top, the most frustrating was when yarran was streaming from deep in defence and had 3 give and gets, and then when he dished off to collins, he turned his back on yarran and tried to take them on instead of dishing back to yarran who could have possible streamed in and kicked a great goal, result?, turnover.

 

[thylacine60]

Collins has been crap both games. Collins is not a crap player. Just don't reckon the be all and end all of fixing a players confidence is sending him back to the twos that's all.

 

[Claypigeon]

Collins has been crap both games. Collins is not a crap player. Just don't reckon the be all and end all of fixing a players confidence is sending him back to the twos that's all.

Its hard though, isn't it. .. We no longer have the luxury of continuing to play through poor form for too long. .. What with so many players in the twos playing well and pushing for selection. .. Plus we need to keep winning to set ourselves up for a strong push leading into finals. .. Yet someone like Collins might benefit from another week in the seniors. .. Do we do it and risk a loss? Is it too dramatic to say it that way? We have a few players down on form, so keeping them all is risking a loss isn't it?

Personally I'd look closely at dropping Betts and/or Russell. .. Not because I feel like whipping them but they are established players who are down on form and shouldn't be hurt by been sent back to the twos to find form. ..