Autopsy Round 9 = Collingwood 51-99 Western Bulldogs

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Carringbush2010 said:
I guess I'm just pointing out that to other posters who are bemoaning 'we'll never be the dees if..................' we'll never be the dees in this cycle > period<, as you've pointed out.

That's a result of past individuals no longer at the club and now the club is paying for it and will for some time. Over the railway line the enemy had a dynasty.

Now the competition looks to have another dynasty team, that's not a given but given themselves every chance. The opposite of what we've done.
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Fair call. Seeing Carl have multiple dynasty teams back in the day hurt almost as much as our lost GFs. Rich and Hawthorn also been there a few times. Chuck in Brissie and the Cats thats 5 teams with dynasties I saw. NM and WCE have also had runs of picking up flags that we can't match and Adelaide got a double. Melbournes flag last year shat me to tears, if they win anothyer "I'll spew"
 
Gone Critical said:
Fair call. Seeing Carl have multiple dynasty teams back in the day hurt almost as much as our lost GFs. Rich and Hawthorn also been there a few times. Chuck in Brissie and the Cats thats 5 teams with dynasties I saw. NM and WCE have also had runs of picking up flags that we can't match and Adelaide got a double. Melbournes flag last year shat me to tears, if they win anothyer "I'll spew"
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And the beef is we could've given ourselves much better chances, things in our control, that we botched.

All the enemies will flag again before us, and we're largely at fault for our own demise.

Yet 9 rounds into a new fd, game plan, and a frankenstein list and many on here are up in arms about a loss and the 'we could be in for a long season' (paraphrase). Umm yeah that horse bolted over a decade ago and again a couple of years ago.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
I guess I'm just pointing out that to other posters who are bemoaning 'we'll never be the dees if..................' we'll never be the dees in this cycle > period<, as you've pointed out.

That's a result of past individuals no longer at the club and now the club is paying for it and will for some time. Over the railway line the enemy had a dynasty.

Now the competition looks to have another dynasty team, that's not a given but given themselves every chance. The opposite of what we've done.
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The dees are hardly the team/club to look to. Been a basket case for 50 years. Take enough shots you have to land one at some stage
 

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stormskye said:
The dees are hardly the team/club to look to. Been a basket case for 50 years. Take enough shots you have to land one at some stage
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And how many times have we had chances to build teams with sustained success only to fk it up time and again?

The dees now look to have built such a team, meanwhile we won't be to able to because of list imbalance, self inflicted.
 
We are unlikely to build a team like the current Melbourne team.

Their current team has 11 players from picks 1-10, then another 7 from 11-20 and 7 from 21-30 from the draft or from other clubs.
 
Mollythedolly said:
Same height as Patty Ryder so he’s tall enough then.
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I think that's more of exceptions prove the rule. Ryder was an exceptionally gifted youngster, no 7 draft pick with a great leap and the best ability of a modern ruckman as a goal kicker. Probably the only ruck in the last 20 years to have some semblance of forward craft. Its a rare mix and a rare mix id what you need if you want to be a ruckman at 197 cm in the modern game.

Begg so far has shown any forward craft or marking ability. He has athleticism, aggression and a willingness for the contest. Looking form the outside in ruck looks an unlikely dream with his attributes and players rarely become forwards without having shown that skillset previously. To me the backline screams his best chance.
 
Maggie5 said:
We are unlikely to build a team like the current Melbourne team.

Their current team has 11 players from picks 1-10, then another 7 from 11-20 and 7 from 21-30 from the draft or from other clubs.
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Incredible stats. Sadly with our recruiting amateurs they could manage to stuff it up with the same numbers. Just shows too how low you have to go and for a long time to reap the benefit. Paul Roos seems to be the decision that changed it all.
 
Under Friday night lights at Marvel Stadium, Collingwood produced its worst performance of the season by gifting the Western Bulldogs early goals in the opening term, which provided the catalyst for a loss to the Bulldogs by 48 points. The opening term was where the game was won and lost, as the Magpies could not win any clearances or complete their work up forward where marks were taken inside 50, but either missed shots at goal or turned the footy over which allowed their opponents to waltz down the other end and got better looks closer to goal and converted the bulk of their chances. The next two quarters were competitive without very many goals being scored, before an early rally in the last quarter saw the Woods reduce the deficit beneath 5 goals to 27 points with sufficient time remaining on the clock, before a controversial 50 metre penalty against Jordan De Goey for umpire dissent saw the Dogs kick away to officially put the game to bed.

Collingwood did not win very many statistical categories on the night. The Magpies had gains from hit-outs by +3 (38 - 35), intercept possessions were won by +2 (66 - 64), +1 for contested marks (9 - 8), and tackles also had a margin of +1 (56 - 55). The Western Bulldogs took complete control of the remaining categories from sources such as disposals by +114 (437 - 323), kicks had a differential of +86 (269 - 183), +28 for handballs (168 - 140), while contested possessions were up by +40 (146 - 106), and uncontested possessions had an advantage of +84 (286 - 206). Clearances were won by +16 (43 - 27), with centre clearances won by +8 (15 - 7), while stoppage clearances had a differential of +8 (28 - 20). Marks went in favour of the Bulldogs by +44 (129 - 85), with uncontested marks up by +45 (121 - 76), with Marks Inside 50 won by +3 (14 - 11), and Inside 50s were won decisively by +22 (68 - 46). Tackles Inside 50 was the only category (8 each) that drew level.

Jack Crisp (24 disposals @ 75%, 561 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 13 handballs, 5 marks, 5 tackles, 5 score involvements, 5 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 3 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s, 4 Rebound 50s & 2 goals) was one of the only midfielders to win his own ball, win clearances and create scoring opportunities, of which Crisp was able to drift forward and kick a couple of majors.

Patrick Lipinski (23 disposals @ 61%, 361 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 12 handballs, 5 tackles, 1 goal assist, 5 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s, 2 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) had an underwhelming game against his former club, where he accumulated possessions, but did not do any significant damage with them on the night.

Taylor Adams (23 disposals @ 65%, 287 metres gained, 10 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 6 kicks, 17 handballs, 2 marks, 3 tackles, 1 goal assist, 8 score involvements, 5 clearances, 3 centre clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) spent the majority of the evening dishing out handpasses to teammates from packs or assisting Jack Crisp in winning clearances, which were hard to come by. Adams was the leading Collingwood player for score involvements on a night where it was difficult for the team to generate scoring shots from disposals.

Darcy Cameron (11 disposals @ 82%, 159 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 7 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 33 hit-outs, 7 kicks, 4 handballs, 5 marks, 2 contested marks, 3 tackles, 1 goal assist, 5 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 2 Inside 50s) competed well over the course of the night in ruck contests, but was unable to provide silver service to his midfielders for the vast majority of the evening. Cameron was also able to demonstrate that he could take marks around the ground but did not do much else.

Jordan De Goey (20 disposals @ 95%, 258 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 14 uncontested possessions, 8 kicks, 12 handballs, 7 marks, 2 tackles, 7 score involvements, 4 clearances, 3 stoppage clearances, 3 Inside 50s, 2 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) contributed to the team's ball movement and scoring shots at every available opportunity, and barely wasted a possession when he had the footy in his hands.

Brayden Maynard (23 disposals @ 70%, 532 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 9 intercept possessions, 18 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks, 3 tackles, 6 score involvements & 10 Rebound 50s) had no difficulties winning possessions, but had challenges in hitting targets coming out of defence. Maynard's kicking game which usually proves to be effective, wasn't as effective as they normally would be.

Jeremy Howe (22 disposals @ 91%, 500 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 18 kicks, 4 handballs, 9 marks, 3 tackles, 2 score involvements & 8 Rebound 50s) generated quality rebound to maintain possession and took plenty of marks to minimsise the damage on the scoreboard.

Nick Daicos (21 disposals @ 81%, 266 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 10 kicks, 11 handballs, 4 marks, 2 score involvements & 5 Rebound 50s) racked up possessions and provided rebound out of defence in another solid outing.

John Noble (18 disposals @ 83%, 409 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 12 uncontested possessions, 7 intercept possessions, 12 kicks, 6 handballs, 6 marks, 2 tackles, 5 score involvements, 5 Inside 50s & 3 Rebound 50s) took it upon himself to run and carry the ball out of defence and into attack with reasonable success. Noble provided dash and made himself an option at every opportunity to link up scoring chains.

Darcy Moore (17 disposals @ 94%, 255 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 8 intercept possessions, 12 kicks, 5 handballs, 7 marks, 2 contested marks, 2 score involvements & 3 Rebound 50s) backed himself in to take intercept marks at will, and rarely wasted any of his possessions coming out of his team's defensive zone.

Isaac Quaynor (16 disposals @ 75%, 285 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 10 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 8 kicks, 8 handballs, 5 marks, 4 tackles, 4 score involvements, 2 Inside 50s, 3 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) offered plenty of dash out of defence, pushed higher up the ground at stages and chimed in with a nice goal to take confidence into next week in Perth.

Will Hoskin-Elliott (13 disposals @ 54%, 257 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 10 kicks, 3 handballs, 7 marks, 2 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 2 score involvements, 2 Inside 50s & 1 goal) made no major impact on the contest other than taking marks and winning his possessions higher up the ground as a leading target.

Oliver Henry (10 disposals @ 30%, 205 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 7 uncontested possessions, 8 kicks, 2 handballs, 6 marks, 5 Marks Inside 50, 4 score involvements & 3 Inside 50s) looked extremely threatening with the volume of marks he took up forward, but could not complete his work on the scoreboard where he did not convert any goals.

Brody Mihocek (9 disposals @ 33%, 163 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 6 uncontested possessions, 5 kicks, 4 handballs, 6 marks, 3 Marks Inside 50, 3 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 4 score involvements & 1 goal) gave his team an option at all times when the ball was moving forward and was able to clunk marks, but much like Henry, was not able to nail chances at goal when the team needed reward for effort on the scoreboard.

Collingwood's next game will be against Fremantle at Optus Stadium on May 22. A daunting and huge trip to Perth against an opponent who are currently firing on all cylinders. The Magpies will aim to have Scott Pendlebury, Jack Ginnivan and Jamie Elliott back in the line-up for the trip west which will strengthen the team by a long way. Ferocity and pressure at the ball and on the opposition will be a major starting point, as that was non-existent against the Bulldogs. If Collingwood can improve their intensity and pressure against the Dockers, they will give themselves every chance of claiming victory when it is not expected.
 
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GOR PIE said:
Incredible stats. Sadly with our recruiting amateurs they could manage to stuff it up with the same numbers. Just shows too how low you have to go and for a long time to reap the benefit. Paul Roos seems to be the decision that changed it all.
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They did also tank, don't forget.
 
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Mollythedolly said:
Ruscoe has been building form. Happy for him to continue to do that in the VFL.

And now Cox is our savior after so many said “never again”. Very fickle crowd.
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Not our savior, but in order to grow and give confidence to a young midfield, being a massive beanpole who can tap to advantage, helps. Begg isn’t a ruckman, anyway. We should make a KPD out of him.


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Carringbush2010 said:
And how many times have we had chances to build teams with sustained success only to fk it up time and again?

The dees now look to have built such a team, meanwhile we won't be to able to because of list imbalance, self inflicted.
Click to expand...
Dees we’re eventually going to get a flag, their 50 year hiatus is damning regardless of their recent success.
It’s absurd to imply we should envy their recent success given their 50 years in the wilderness.
 
Gone Critical said:
I think that's more of exceptions prove the rule. Ryder was an exceptionally gifted youngster, no 7 draft pick with a great leap and the best ability of a modern ruckman as a goal kicker. Probably the only ruck in the last 20 years to have some semblance of forward craft. Its a rare mix and a rare mix id what you need if you want to be a ruckman at 197 cm in the modern game.

Begg so far has shown any forward craft or marking ability. He has athleticism, aggression and a willingness for the contest. Looking form the outside in ruck looks an unlikely dream with his attributes and players rarely become forwards without having shown that skillset previously. To me the backline screams his best chance.
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I’m certainly not committed either way. Just disagree that size is an issue for him at this stage. He’s generally wrestling okay against bigger rucks, and jumping over them when given the space to do so. A few cm’s certainly won’t tell the tale either way.

I just don’t see how people can make definitive statements about his forward or defensive capacity given he’s had next to no opportunity in either role.

What we do know is that he was playing KPF-occasional ruck in his draft year prior to injury, and while he’s never played KPD, his junior coach (I think it was) suggested he thought he had that potential.

Anything beyond that is pure guesswork. Will be interesting to watch his development.
 
adge0001 said:
Not our savior, but in order to grow and give confidence to a young midfield, being a massive beanpole who can tap to advantage, helps. Begg isn’t a ruckman, anyway. We should make a KPD out of him.


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I can't believe how our coaching group is escaping criticism (only about team selection).

The Geelong and WC game was so frustrating and now with WB coming out of the blocks they way they did, they tried nothing.

To date it seems to me that McRae is just one dimensional. Haven't seen in game positional moves from him at all.

Some things I would have tried would have been:

Crisp back to his normal role, N Daicos to the wing, J Daicos to the centre or even one of the the Daicos boys to the centre, WHE on the wing, maybe Sidebottom back. I wouldn't have left JDG in the centre all night either.

The other player who I think hasn't performed to expectations this year is Maynard, not even sure what his role is apart from the obligatory brain fade or two.
 
Maggie5 said:
I can't believe how our coaching group is escaping criticism (only about team selection).

The Geelong and WC game was so frustrating and now with WB coming out of the blocks they way they did, they tried nothing.

To date it seems to me that McRae is just one dimensional. Haven't seen in game positional moves from him at all.

Some things I would have tried would have been:

Crisp back to his normal role, N Daicos to the wing, J Daicos to the centre or even one of the the Daicos boys to the centre, WHE on the wing, maybe Sidebottom back. I wouldn't have left JDG in the centre all night either.

The other player who I think hasn't performed to expectations this year is Maynard, not even sure what his role is apart from the obligatory brain fade or two.
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Yeah would love to hear other people's thoughts on this. From the games I've seen so far fly doesn't strike me as one to experiment a lot. I was puzzled on Friday why moves were made especially in that first quarter when we were getting reamed. I hope this isn't an occuring trend with him

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cwoodgal said:
Yeah would love to hear other people's thoughts on this. From the games I've seen so far fly doesn't strike me as one to experiment a lot. I was puzzled on Friday why moves were made especially in that first quarter when we were getting reamed. I hope this isn't an occuring trend with him

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I think it's because most people accept that we aren't that good ATM.

My only frustration is I felt like the early form had people misguidedly think another flag might be in the group so they had thoughts ro defer a proper rebuild. In fact it looked like even the club started to think that way, hopefully that is put to bed and we do it right.
 
cwoodgal said:
Yeah would love to hear other people's thoughts on this. From the games I've seen so far fly doesn't strike me as one to experiment a lot. I was puzzled on Friday why moves were made especially in that first quarter when we were getting reamed. I hope this isn't an occuring trend with him

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McCrae is not going to change the game plan to save games so early.
He rightly wants to persist with it and assess our ability to execute under all circumstances.

That’s a huge tick for me - if he’s doing this at the same time next season then I’d share your concerns.
 
Finnishpie said:
Yeah, I think tonight was predictable from Begg. But when I asked if we wanted to win and so should play Cox, I was shouted down. Ah, Bigfooty….
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Pretty simple Cox has had years and still not produced - I was prepared to give him a chance with the specs but it's pretty clear he'll only ever consistently be remotely competitive in the VFL.

So the question is do you believe the often quoted question and it's answer???

Q What is the definition of insanity?

A Constantly repeating what doesn't work.
 
Mollythedolly said:
LOL…. The moment you know an anonymous poster on a public forum has conceded the point… the moment they desperately sprout they know someone in support of their claim. That’s as relevant as a $3 note.
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You often tell people things haven’t happened in their life?


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No SPIN said:
Dees we’re eventually going to get a flag, their 50 year hiatus is damning regardless of their recent success.
It’s absurd to imply we should envy their recent success given their 50 years in the wilderness.
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Until they win the next two or three. Only one to blame for Collingwood is Collingwood, those individuals now gone but the pain will remain for some time.
 

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Autopsy Round 9 = Collingwood 51-99 Western Bulldogs

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