Discussion Saints part ways with recruiting manager after restructure

[stfan]

Not sure why the overlap matters?

The draft is November 2022

Yes, but he was looking at talent in SA for years prior. So is relevant to our SA pickups over the last number of years, and not just once he got the national gig.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes, but he was looking at talent in SA for years prior. So is relevant to our SA pickups over the last number of years, and not just once he got the national gig.

You do realise that talent spotting as a scout is different to managing our entire draft recruitment?

Which ultimately this is technically what this is all about. The new role/title indicates an expanded role and they don’t feel like Toce has the skill set to deliver

 

[stfan]

You do realise that talent spotting as a scout is different to managing our entire draft recruitment?

Which ultimately this is technically what this is all about. The new role/title indicates an expanded role and they don’t feel like Toce has the skill set to deliver

Yes I do.

If his replacement in the restructure, who is as yet unconfirmed, is better than than him then all good. We are all in the belief that they have some one better lined up. To win a flag we have to be better at many things. This is hopefully just another part of our continued improvement that was ramped up when Rats was sacked and RTB brought in.

In the meantime, Toce, does seem to have done pretty decent job. So nothing wrong giving him some credit after our very poor drafting period of many years.

 

[Mowman]

You do realise that talent spotting as a scout is different to managing our entire draft recruitment?

Which ultimately this is technically what this is all about. The new role/title indicates an expanded role and they don’t feel like Toce has the skill set to deliver

Where is the job criteria ? Have we advertised it ?

 

[gringo2011]

But is TOCE one of the best in talent ID / recruiting? If the Sydney guy is well recognised in the industry (for building the bulldog premiership list and Sydney’s grand final team), then it’s an improvement?

Or are we so scared of change because the Richo / Ratten years have scared us for life.

Most of Sydney's best talent is from their academy and they also have Beatson there. The Dogs was a great build but they've been very good since he left as well.

 

[gringo2011]

We have drafted well the last 2 years.

But if we can turn Toce into Dalrymple then it’s a no brainer.

If it’s Toce into Gringos best mate Elshaug then we have ****ed it.

But I’m confident it won’t be a backwards step

Sometimes people get employed on reputation from the past over actual output. I was one who always bemoaned that we weren't chasing a guy like Dalrymple but sometimes you are better off with the hungry guy trying to build a reputation over the guy who has nothing to prove.

Anyway, what's done is done and all we can do is sit here and complain for the next few years until he proves himself a disappointment or a hero. I say let's cut him down before hand just in case. The club has been a bit boring with out a Trout or Richo to throw shit at. We don't even have Billings to rag on. Dalrymple sounds like a cheap scotch brand, you know it would be a barrel-dregs blend not something quality.

 

[stavro#4]

Where is the job criteria ? Have we advertised it ?

no,

But you don’t need it advertised to plainly see it’s more then just recruiting kids.

National recruiting manager is now…
talent identification and player movement manager


Pretty broad title, no?

 

[stavro#4]

Sometimes people get employed on reputation from the past over actual output. I was one who always bemoaned that we weren't chasing a guy like Dalrymple but sometimes you are better off with the hungry guy trying to build a reputation over the guy who has nothing to prove.

Anyway, what's done is done and all we can do is sit here and complain for the next few years until he proves himself a disappointment or a hero. I say let's cut him down before hand just in case. The club has been a bit boring with out a Trout or Richo to throw s**t at. We don't even have Billings to rag on. Dalrymple sounds like a cheap scotch brand, you know it would be a barrel-dregs blend not something quality.

As posted above.

The new role appears to be a broader role then what Dalrymple was doing at Sydney - which is the equivalent role Toce did.

You wouldn’t make a side ways move. It appears to be a promotion as it’s also working on player movement and working directly under Gubby.

So - if it is indeed Dalrymple. Then it’s a promotion, which means he still wants to prove himself Gringo.

Shit decision for Toce. Did a good job along side SOS and Gubby.

But we also shouldn’t be scared to strive for better.

 

[sunny3193]

Confusional?

Equally obscure.
How about using English to communicate?

 

[kernelT]

Equally obscure.
How about using English to communicate?

How can I knock a nail in with your hamster?

 

[sunny3193]

How can I knock a nail in with your hamster?

Now you’ve reached annoying.
Go away.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sometimes people get employed on reputation from the past over actual output. I was one who always bemoaned that we weren't chasing a guy like Dalrymple but sometimes you are better off with the hungry guy trying to build a reputation over the guy who has nothing to prove.

Anyway, what's done is done and all we can do is sit here and complain for the next few years until he proves himself a disappointment or a hero. I say let's cut him down before hand just in case. The club has been a bit boring with out a Trout or Richo to throw s**t at. We don't even have Billings to rag on. Dalrymple sounds like a cheap scotch brand, you know it would be a barrel-dregs blend not something quality.

How about "Old Dalrymple".

 

[StCicatriz]

these type of moves you need to wait to either hear the true story on why someone was made redundant or see what the restructure looks like

until that happens its unfair to be critical

 

[snails13]

How do we know we got lucky and the past 2 drafts have been a success,when the majority of the kids haven't played a game yet

 

[George]

How can I knock a nail in with your hamster?

I guess he could try?

 

[Premium]

You do realise that talent spotting as a scout is different to managing our entire draft recruitment?

Which ultimately this is technically what this is all about. The new role/title indicates an expanded role and they don’t feel like Toce has the skill set to deliver

More like he didn't fit into the click they have assembled.

 

[stfan]

Lethlean is certainly making his mark as CEO. Absolutely ruthless. Something this club has been missing for a decade.

I think Lethlean made many bad football decisions when we picked him up to be in our Football Department. Football wise he was poor.

Swapping him over to the admin side of the club is making a much better use of his skillset, and keeps him away from the area that his judgement is poor in.

 

[Drop Kick]

Hanners wants a part time job travelling the country to sink piss and write a few pages on some draftees though?

That'd be more than he did in his previous 4 years at the Saints.

 

[seasonedsainter]

More like he didn't fit into the click they have assembled.

Haha I'm sure a few others thought similar. However call it a clique, call it a boys club to be honest call it whatever you like, just as long as we're calling it a Premiership at some stage!

 

[Drop Kick]

Haha I'm sure a few others thought similar. However call it a clique, call it a boys club to be honest call it whatever you like, just as long as we're calling it a Premiership at some stage!

Is that flag expected before 2066, asking for those that are getting worn out by incompetence, and old age.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

That'd be more than he did in his previous 4 years at the Saints.

Harsh. Did a lot more hard drugs and alcohol than that.

 

[saintmike65]

I think Lethlean made many bad football decisions when we picked him up to be in our Football Department. Football wise he was poor.

Swapping him over to the admin side of the club is making a much better use of his skillset, and keeps him away from the area that his judgement is poor in.

I would’ve thought it was more a Misson, SOS & Gubby discussion, then the final decision ratified by the board?

 

[saintmike65]

Where is the job criteria ? Have we advertised it ?

Dare say we’ve already got our man…likely will be announced when the players return to training January 8.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Very hard to gauge what's going on in these scenarios. Also very difficult to evaluate Toce's impact. He's been in charge for two drafts. Phillipou was a pretty obvious selection at 10. Hotton, Keeler, Van Es yet to play. The latest draft clearly years too early to evaluate. Not to say he hasn't done well. Also far too early to judge critically.

I take the view that when it comes to drafting decisions are either obvious on talent or needs base, or a matter of good/bad judgment.

Toce's clear wins on judgment are IMO:
Wilkie
Coops
Nas

Known failures are probably:
Parker
Young
Adams
Highmore

The rest of them are too early to tell.

 

[saintmike65]

I take the view that when it comes to drafting decisions are either obvious on talent or needs base, or a matter of good/bad judgment.

Toce's clear wins on judgment are IMO:
Wilkie
Coops
Nas

Known failures are probably:
Parker
Young
Adams
Highmore

The rest of them are too early to tell.

Fair to say he had a bit of luck in as much as Phillipou, Hotton, Keeler, Wilson and Shoenmaker all slid compared to their draft rankings.
An opportunity was missed in not taking Cooper Simpson at #33!
Ironically, Garcia at #50 may be his best legacy.