Saints v Pies: The Aftermath

[Big Mart]

Just on that Kildonian

In 2009 we had an experienced vocal mid group.

Lenny, NJ, Ball, Joey, NDS, CJ, BJ

I have it on authority that Lenny was the least vocal of that group by far, Ball, CJ and NDS next
With BJ very vocal .... But it was Joey who was the most vocal player in that group... And the most likely to end up a senior coach.

A bit surprising

 

[mysainters]

Bruce and Membrey good again with limited opportunities.

Paddy was fine, obviously nervous but showed enough. You're not going to dominate a match as a first game key forward.

Roberton back to some really good form.

Disappointing to see the path that Pendlebury is going down. Should be ashamed of himself but can you really blame him when the AFL reward it.

Off the top of my head can't think of a worse kick for goal during my time watching footy than Cloke. Never seen a player miss so many shots from 10m out.

Agree on Pendles.

Collingwood fans wrecked Cloke, Bronx cheering got in his head over the years...so damaging.

 

[Big Mart]

I think we look for schnieders mistakes now

Because we want him out of the side. And replaced by a kid.
He still remains our smartest player, and one of our most skilful.

Did anyone see him do anything good?
He had 18 EFFECTIVE disposals
And 7 tackles
121 pts

I'll bet you my house that he's playing in NZ

 

[Defacto]

i'm puzzled on the next move for mccartin. he certainly learnt the gap between frankston and an AFL mid-tier side. our hand might be forced by roo though. probably keep him in to see how he goes without nerves but my gutfeel is he's better finding his feet in the VFL

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Just a frustrating night of footy really. Losing to the Pies is never fun and expected with a young inconsistent team like we have now but to fade away after such a promising start and to be on the end of some seriously poor umpiring meant it was just a really ordinary night to be a Saints supporter.

Positives:
I really like Sinclair. He is gonna be a hell of a player.
Roberton looks back to his 2013 form
Armo tried manfully. He may be having his "break-out" year where he joins the competitions top inside midfielders. We need it too with our lack of top players around his age.

 

[Big Mart]

I don't reckon Nick R will get up next week

Keep him in

Here's a tip though, get N Wright in the 21

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I'll bet you my house that he's playing in NZ

Cmon Marty you gotta put up better collateral than that mate

That was funny, even you mustve had a slight raising of the corner of the mouth mate. Just a tiny bit??

 

[Kilroy]

The truth is ...
Pies may be cheaper now
But they're still just pies

 

[Rors]

I think we look for schnieders mistakes now

Because we want him out of the side. And replaced by a kid.
He still remains our smartest player, and one of our most skilful.

Did anyone see him do anything good?
He had 18 EFFECTIVE disposals
And 7 tackles
121 pts

I'll bet you my house that he's playing in NZ

Anything good?

I saw him go to the bench a few times...

 

[Noidenous]

60% efficiency.... Hmmmm

Not that great considering all the hard work Armo did & managed 69%

So Hayes would have multiple weeks in a row at 40% and no-one would bat an eyelid, but Schneider's -9% on Armitage from a lower sample size is unforgivable (let's just conveniently forget the fact it's a legitimately wet night [none of this dome dew bullshit people used to excuse Riewoldt's set shot kicking for years]).

 

[Blurt]

Disappointed we did not stay in the game longer. Tackling, pressure was down, which is understandble considering youth, short breaks. McCartin tried hard, but needs to develop in the VFL. Forward line would have to be one of the most inexperienced ones we have fielded!

Positives:

Armitage, never stopped trying.
Steven, never stopped running, just needs to clean up his kicking.
Roberton's improved tackling and pressure. One of the best on the night.
Nathan "murderball" Wright.
Sinclair early, intelligent player.
Weller early, faded in 2nd half.
Longer's tapwork. Still a long way to go around the ground, but young and inexperienced.
Savage early. His run and pace is an asset.
Delaney is a very limited but decent negating defender. He tries hard, and is structurally important. Short term yes. Medium term yes. Long term?

Negatives:

Saad. Decent kick, ok around goals but one-dimensional and cannot play up the ground. Does not do enough. Don't see him a long term player.
Shenton - Dopey player. Makes to many errors. Won't make it.
Took to long to elevate Wright. Should of been on for 2nd half at least.
Cloke channeling the great slapstick stars of the 20's and the gullible umpires being sucked in.
Dempster looked so slow. Reckon this may be his last year.

 

[TheLonieRanger]

anyone got a link to the post match presser? can't find it anywhere. EDIT got it


Review:

Tough game

*Great start

*Our pressure dropped off in the second and stayed that way, we looked tired, the flight, heat and six day break may have had something to do with it

*Great work from the boys in the middle, roberton stepped up

*Savage gained many a meter (can't bring myself to spell it metre)

*Mcartin was nervous, but the conditions were horrendous and the supply was worse. Fantastic second efforts. I was on the boundary and watching him in the last quarter you could tell he was completely spent, blind will power was the only thing keeping his legs moving. Though, without wanting to sound negative, the filth's defence also realised this and were basically letting him run around free. But it will do wonders for his fitness, five more games like that and he will be a twice the player he is now. Also I just love the guy, I've got a good feeling about him.

*Bruce's game suffered from the same conditions/delivery, but when it was kicked to him he made a great contest and took his chances, I don't think even the roo could have done much better than him in the contests he did get to (though roo would have made a few more )

*Umpires were horrendous, i don't normally complain

*Pies supporters are flogs

*Pies supporters are flogs

*Pies supporters are flogs

*Pies supporters are flogs

*Pies supporters are flogs

*Pies supporters are flogs

*Pies supporters must only breed with pies supporters because their gene pool leaves a lot to be desired. Also they're flogs

I think overall our structure and running patterns dropped off a little, mainly in the middle, the pressure wasn't there and we spent all our tickets in the first. As the team gets fitter and stronger (50 game mark), and equally importantly, gets better at executing the game plan, we'll be winning those games easily.

Oh, and leigh fisher, comon!

 

[Dunnas]

Luke

If he was poor ... Not sure how he finished the 4th most effective player on the ground?

You must be right...A shocking night...

I'm wrong, he had a shocking 28pos 7 tackle game???????????????

Don't worry about my grammar, worry about your argument...

Well done at making me post for the first time in I think about 4 years, and probably still one of my first 5-10 posts, but did you actually watch the game? It's become very clear that the champion data version of effective disposals is very different than most people actually see, and this seems to be one of those cases of someone just basing things off stats and not what they actually saw.

most of the time when I saw Schneider get the ball tonight he thought he had twice as much time as he he actually did and his disposals were while being tackled. Most of his handballs were certainly not clearances, they were getting the **** rid of the ball because he had to. All you seem to be talking about is stats, but can you bring up some certain examples of good things he did?

 

[psychosaints]

Positives, our relentless start to the game was great. Sinclair looks a type, nice rookie pick up. Longer was great early.
Armo played his heart out. Wright, although runs around like a fruit loop, I love it. His energy is infectious and should start next week.
We kicked a goal in every qtr so up your **** Bomber 'I got away with the drug scandal too easily' Thompson.
Negatives, umpiring. It didn't make a difference but the inconsistent calls was bl00dy frustrating. How many frees to pendles and cloke?
I know we got blown away after qtr time but I thought that Billings had a shocker. McCartin showed some things and made some mistakes but it was pretty unfair to debut a big guy on a night like that I though, poor decision match committee.
Easily Wellers worst game for the club.
Hopefully, with the peaks and troughs you get from playing kids, we'll get a peak against Carlton next week.
GO SAINTS!

 

[Mat Mann]

Well..... Not unexpected, but still disappointing, The way we were continually opened up through the middle was very very poor.

I think we all understand where some players are in there careers. Schneider was ok I thought, got the ball used it good sometimes but others, would of been better off giving it to his direct opponent, cos it wouldn't of cost us so bad, do expect better disposal from him.

Newnes is a conundrum though, surprises with some great disposal, or a great decision , but often throws up a 10m turnover pass which just keeps throwing up questions. Can he be more than a solid mid, or is solid mid his place.( not a knock, he goes ok. But will he be more?)

Billings was better tonite. Love Lonnie and Sinclair. I haven't had a player# on my jumpers since Aussie Jones, but Sinclair I think is my new fav so far.

McCartin's selection was horrid I thought, why select your prized recruit, and give him 30m to prepare ( unless this was a ploy to keep the hype down and he had more time to prepare than we think). He did ok, but tonite was not the night to debut him, but in saying that, if he is omitted for the next game then that's ****ing horrid.

Heads up, still plenty to like and hopefully a Carlton demolishion up next

 

[holllywood]

Just got back and obviously disappointed.

After the second half we couldn't buy a centre clearance and this allowed Collingwood to run forward at every opportunity and when a team does this, it's very hard to counter. It allowed their defense to set up as well so when we did actually get the ball again, we panicked and kicked it back to their defenders. Growing pains.

Schnieder was here and there. He obviously has football IQ and was trying to direct traffic, so his presence out there was useful in that regard.

McCartin was obviously nervous but showed good endeavour the whole night.

We really missed Roo. He is our get out of jail free card when kicking the ball out of defense and is the leader we look to when things are going bad. Both things we lacked tonight.

Onward to Carlton next week. Praying for a speedy recovery for Roo.

 

[psychosaints]

Well..... Not unexpected, but still disappointing, The way we were continually opened up through the middle was very very poor.

I think we all understand where some players are in there careers. Schneider was ok I thought, got the ball used it good sometimes but others, would of been better off giving it to his direct opponent, cos it wouldn't of cost us so bad, do expect better disposal from him.

Newnes is a conundrum though, surprises with some great disposal, or a great decision , but often throws up a 10m turnover pass which just keeps throwing up questions. Can he be more than a solid mid, or is solid mid his place.( not a knock, he goes ok. But will he be more?)

Billings was better tonite. Love Lonnie and Sinclair. I haven't had a player# on my jumpers since Aussie Jones, but Sinclair I think is my new fav so far.

McCartin's selection was horrid I thought, why select your prized recruit, and give him 30m to prepare ( unless this was a ploy to keep the hype down and he had more time to prepare than we think). He did ok, but tonite was not the night to debut him, but in saying that, if he is omitted for the next game then that's ******* horrid.

Heads up, still plenty to like and hopefully a Carlton demolishion up next

Agree with everything you said Mat except I thought Billings was average at best Going on the last 2 games, I would say Sinclair has been better. I know Billings had a interrupted pre-season and will be good for us but I thought we might have got a little more from him tonight.

 

[Saint Luke]

Luke

If he was poor ... Not sure how he finished the 4th most effective player on the ground?

You must be right...A shocking night...

I'm wrong, he had a shocking 28pos 7 tackle game???????????????

Don't worry about my grammar, worry about your argument...

Herein lies the perfect example of a post of yours. It's like you're a telemarketer who has a script to follow. First, we have some rampant unfounded condescension, many unanswered questions and of course some blatant hypocrisy.

This will be my last response to you because your inability to recognize even the possibility that maybe you don't know everything means responding to a person as introspective as a brick wall is an incredibly frustrating exercise. It's the social equivalent of banging your head against a wall.

You have complained on numerous occasions in typically dramatic fashion about Jack Steven. He really hasn't had many games where his numbers were at worst around that mark and yet you have piled on him because of his disposal. Yet, when a similar logic is applied it's completely confounding to you and you seek to argue against your former opinions. It's politician level rationalizing.

Are you able to describe to me just two passages of play that saw Schneider in any way impact the game. I can name a number from Steven despite his DE being less.

DE is a completely flawed barometer. Kicking down the line to a pack is considered effective, do you genuinely believe that is disposed of in a manner that should be deemed effective? At best it's a neutral action. The equation to determining DE isn't the same as suggesting the kicks landed on chests of team mates or even to the advantage of as even kicking to space in front of opposition players would be considered effective.

Finally, I was not "worried" about your sentence structure. Calling it grammar is cute. Why would I worry about such a silly thing? Asking a question about something and worrying about it are not necessarily the same thing. Sorry, let me translate.

Grammar? ... Grammar is a specifically defined manner of writing? Changing it isn't following it? ... ...

 

[Rough_Edges]

Really disappointed considering the hope i took in, the start we made was really impressive.

**** we missed Riewoldt.

Our pressure this week compared to last was non existent.

Armitage, Steven were really good.

Steven missed an easy goal and his DE was down but 5 clearances and 11 contested possessions explains that it would be down.

Got no idea why people are talking down Schneider, 28 possessions and 7 tackles.

Roberton as well was really impressive, he's back in fantastic form, better than in 2013.

Newnes butchered it a bit but three direct goal assists, pretty impressive.

Our defence in transition was really poor.

So dirty on the umps tonight, 7 frees for Pendles tonight was redic, but that being said we were well outplayed,

Felt for McCartin, wasn't a good night for him to debut I don't think, obviously was quite nervous.

Dunstan and Billings were both quite good.

Really disappointing effort though, need to be much better next week,

 

[John Bonney]

Armitage & Steven are our future.

 

[TheLonieRanger]

Herein lies the perfect example of a post of yours. It's like you're a telemarketer who has a script to follow. First, we have some rampant unfounded condescension, many unanswered questions and of course some blatant hypocrisy.

This will be my last response to you because your inability to recognize even the possibility that maybe you don't know everything means responding to a person as introspective as a brick wall is an incredibly frustrating exercise. It's the social equivalent of banging your head against a wall.

You have complained on numerous occasions in typically dramatic fashion about Jack Steven. He really hasn't had many games where his numbers were at worst around that mark and yet you have piled on him because of his disposal. Yet, when a similar logic is applied it's completely confounding to you and you seek to argue against your former opinions. It's politician level rationalizing.

Are you able to describe to me just two passages of play that saw Schneider in any way impact the game. I can name a number from Steven despite his DE being less.

DE is a completely flawed barometer. Kicking down the line to a pack is considered effective, do you genuinely believe that is disposed of in a manner that should be deemed effective? At best it's a neutral action. The equation to determining DE isn't the same as suggesting the kicks landed on chests of team mates or even to the advantage of as even kicking to space in front of opposition players would be considered effective.

Finally, I was not "worried" about your sentence structure. Calling it grammar is cute. Why would I worry about such a silly thing? Asking a question about something and worrying about it are not necessarily the same thing. Sorry, let me translate.

Grammar? ... Grammar is a specifically defined manner of writing? Changing it isn't following it? ... ...

I can only guess as I have him blocked, but it appears you have come down with a terrible case of bigmartitis, one of the most debilitating sicknesses to blight football forums since the dawn of their inception (2002?). I suggest you take an immediate and substantial dose of Blockmart to alleviate pain and reduce symptoms. You will never be fully cured due to the pain of lingering memories, but it is the only way forward. I must also warn you that although you will no longer be directly affected, you will still have to watch your brothers and sisters fall to this insipid disease. Their calls for help will echo out, I pray that you do as I have done. Godspeed

 

[aussierulesrules]

Just got home from the game and have very little time with a big day tomorrow, but the glaring difference between the two teams tonight as far as I was concerned was that one team really wanted it and the other didn't even come close in that regard. It just stood out like dogs balls after that first 15 or so minutes.

They had a bunch of stats up on the big screen at the 20 min mark of the 2nd quarter and for that first 20 mins of that quarter they had had 40 contested possessions to our 20, 12 clearances to our 4 and 6 or 7 centre clearances to our 1. Those stats pretty much told the whole story. They really wanted it and were willing to have a red hot crack and do the tough stuff in order to get it and we just didn't even come close to matching it with them in those regards.

The other thing that stood out was the staggering number of times we fumbled the ball or dropped uncontested marks. I seriously don't remember having seen an AFL team fumble that many balls in memory and it may even be that I haven't seen a team fumble that much since I last saw a game of under 12 or 14's footy and that was years ago. I'm not even slightly joking. It's like we were playing with a cake of soap while they were playing with a bone dry footy. Just mind-blowing how an AFL team could fumble that much in one game. Not sure what was said leading into the game, but I get the feeling that Richo and co. might have built it up to be this really big game on the big stage and that it may have been built up so much that they ended up like deer in the headlights, with Paddy unfortunately the most glaring example.

If we did build this game up internally perhaps we should take a leaf out of the Australian cricket team who just romped their way to a World Cup by simply treating every game like "another game of cricket", whether it was a World Cup final or not.

If ever there was an example of a team making another team look good, it was tonight.

Not a lot of positives, but the main one for me was Jack Sinclair, who is just a ripper who makes great decisions and executes well under pressure and I thought Tim Membrey really showed a bit tonight and look forward to seeing how his career unfolds. Good to see Roberton back playing some really good footy as well.

PS- Jarryn Geary, how's this for an idea. How about you don't try to kick the ball into the next hemisphere so much, then perhaps it won't skew off the side of your boot so often? It's not rocket science. The harder you try to kick it, the greater your chances of not timing it properly. There's a reason why those on the pro-golf tour apparently only generally swing the club at about 80% of their full capacity and it's the same when kicking a footy, especially if you're not very skillful to begin with. Same goes for Josh Saunders and plenty of others who try to kick the ball too bloody hard too often.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Yeah, our kicking tonight was really poor, back to the norm - a couple of really poor turnovers that beggared belief,.

Savage is so important for us off half back. Really noticeable once he got injured/was shut out of it,

We really need more run off hsrd back with good users of the footy which is why it's important Webster comes back.

Along with this while Wright isnt a great kick, he offers real run off half back.

Mav struggled to hold Pendles/Swan tonihht but hard to be harsh. Pies were under no pressure.

Did I mention we got FARKED by the umps

 

[John Bonney]

Just got home from the game and have very little time with a big day tomorrow, but the glaring difference between the two teams tonight as far as I was concerned was that one team really wanted it and the other didn't even come close in that regard. It just stood out like dogs balls after that first 15 or so minutes.

They had a bunch of stats up on the big screen at the 20 min mark of the 2nd quarter and for that first 20 mins of that quarter they had had 40 contested possessions to our 20, 12 clearances to our 4 and 6 or 7 centre clearances to our 1. Those stats pretty much told the whole story. They really wanted it and were willing to have a red hot crack and do the tough stuff in order to get it and we just didn't even come close to matching it with them in those regards.

The other thing that stood out was the staggering number of times we fumbled the ball or dropped uncontested marks. I seriously don't remember having seen an AFL team fumble that many balls in memory and it may even be that I haven't seen a team fumble that much since I last saw a game of under 12 or 14's footy and that was years ago. I'm not even slightly joking. It's like we were playing with a cake of soap while they were playing with a bone dry footy. Just mind-blowing how an AFL team could fumble that much in one game. Not sure what was said leading into the game, but I get the feeling that Richo and co. might have built it up to be this really big game on the big stage and that it may have been built up so much that they ended up like deer in the headlights, with Paddy unfortunately the most glaring example.

If ever there was an example of a team making another team look good, it was tonight.

Not a lot of positives, but the main one for me was Jack Sinclair, who is just a ripper who makes great decisions and executes well under pressure and I thought Tim Membrey really showed a bit tonight and look forward to seeing how his career unfolds. Good to see Roberton back playing some really good footy as well.

PS- Jarryn Geary, how's this for an idea. How about you don't try to kick the ball into the next hemisphere so much, then perhaps it won't skew off the side of your boot so often. It's not rocket science. The harder you try to kick it, the greater your chances of not timing it properly. There's a reason why those on the pro-golf tour apparently only generally swing the club at about 80% of their full capacity and it's the same when kicking a footy, especially if you're not very skillful to begin with. Same goes for Josh Saunders and plenty of others who try to kick the ball too bloody hard too often.

Easy for u to criticise mr space cadet

 

[Verdun66]

You were reasonably quiet after our good win last week Marty.
Hope your not going to flood the site this week just cos we got smashed??

To be fair to Big Mart he did come on and say quite a few very positive things last week. Both during the game, and after. Praise where praise was due. I noticed it because he doesn't often do it!! But he did.

I love youse all....honest!

Anyway, we were disappointing, but will bounce back. Another game and experience to tick off.