SANFL Trials 2009

[Alex99]

Yep, I would be expecting, at the very least, Young James to be a Lague regular by the end of this year.

I would be expecting the same of Will Young by the end of 2010 / middle of 2011 given his a more mature player.

I think Young will be given the least amount of time to develore given the age factor. If he's not showing signs, he'll be the first looked at to go, even as early as the end of next year, though I doubt we'll delist a 21 year old KPP prospect after 2 years.

But you cannot measure that – you cannot say “he should be at this point, by this time” it doesn’t work like that

Every player had their own individual circumstances that they have to deal with whist not at the AFC, one club may have the philosophy that they are will to give ‘player A’ a fair and reasonable opportunity to play that position as they don’t have anyone better but a different club may have a different philosophy and their objectives are winning games of football with the player they have and know. They are not going to stick someone in there and allow him to develop only to learn 10 weeks into the season they have lost him to the Crows and have to start again – they are willing to give him a go but only if it doesn’t disrupt there structure. .

 

[Alex99]

Yeah, i'm agreing with you.
Coaches certainly would think this way, but it just happens the players who are selected early also have more 'potential upside' than those selected later (in most cases), thus are given longer to try and get to that potential.

And that is why we need a crow’s reserves side – an SANFL coach has different idea for his player, they have not see the same sort of ‘upside’ compared to Neil Craig or Matt Rendell who selected him.

Different philosophies, different idealistic get in the way and it shouldn’t. The player’s development both positional and standard wise should be the number 1 priority at this stage. If he is not good enough at the moment, fair enough but when the SANFL club is deliberately playing them out of position as it doesn’t suit there environment – that’s when change is needed.

 

[cmndstab]

If a Crows Reserves side could be set up without destroying/making a farce of the league, then I think it would be the best thing for the Crows. Realistically though it's difficult to imagine it working.

You could set it up so that instead of having a bye, you play the Crows Reserves side. Perhaps no premiership points are on the line but it can contribute to percentage, or something like that. Of course you then deprive anyone on the Crows Reserves side the oppurtunity to compete for a premiership, not to mention you're not going to have a full squad so you will need to bring other players into the squad to fill it up.


That simple paragraph outlines the problem - while a Crows Reserves side would be the best option for the Crows, making it works requires so many compromises and fixes that it would damage the integrity of the SANFL, which, in the long run, would be detrimental to the Crows as well.


We don't have a perfect system but it's not likely to change so we need to try to make the most of it.

 

[WALL-e]

But you cannot measure that – you cannot say “he should be at this point, by this time” it doesn’t work like that

Every player had their own individual circumstances that they have to deal with whist not at the AFC, one club may have the philosophy that they are will to give ‘player A’ a fair and reasonable opportunity to play that position as they don’t have anyone better but a different club may have a different philosophy and their objectives are winning games of football with the player they have and know. They are not going to stick someone in there and allow him to develop only to learn 10 weeks into the season they have lost him to the Crows and have to start again – they are willing to give him a go but only if it doesn’t disrupt there structure. .

I'm not judging Sellar on any set of rules I have for players. I don't think they must be here or there by this age or this many years at the club. I'm judging him on him.

In Jimmys case, he's a 19-20 year old with 3 years of AFL system. He's a big fella with limited AFL knowledge so you throw him some more time. I was of the iew that his body and tank we're two of the things holding him back in the last two years, but now they seem to be fine, he has a unit of body developed, so much so he could be dominate at SANFL with it. His tank is pretty much up to AFL standard which = very good SANFL level tank. So I now see it as the year where you say "if he doesn't start catching on with his brain about where to be and what to do, it may just be it".

any of us thought it was his application, but now everyone, including coaches, supporters and players, seem to think he's putting in as much effort as anyone, even been called "hell bent on making it". Now being lazy isn't a problem.

Now he's been given an opportunaty down back, so you start to wonder if that's his calling. So you may want to give him some time there.

But the fact is he has the body and athletesim to be a regular in the SANFL now. That's the target i've set him for my goals. That's not a difficult task for him.

The only thing stopping Jimmy from being an average SANFL player and an AFL gun is a good footy brain. Unfortunately, this can't be gained by riding a bike and running laps etc. This is something you either have, you gain over time from being around the game and you never get. I hope it's a case of number 2 for him.

He could just be a natural back, he could need to play as a back to better understand the way to play as a forward or, unfortunately, he could be better suited to track athletics.

I don't think my aim of saying you'd want him to, at least, be a regular in Glenelgs League team is harsh.

It's not a target based on age, or anything like that, but rather what Sellar should expect from himself.

 

[jo172]

If a Crows Reserves side could be set up without destroying/making a farce of the league, then I think it would be the best thing for the Crows. Realistically though it's difficult to imagine it working.

You could set it up so that instead of having a bye, you play the Crows Reserves side. Perhaps no premiership points are on the line but it can contribute to percentage, or something like that. Of course you then deprive anyone on the Crows Reserves side the oppurtunity to compete for a premiership, not to mention you're not going to have a full squad so you will need to bring other players into the squad to fill it up.


That simple paragraph outlines the problem - while a Crows Reserves side would be the best option for the Crows, making it works requires so many compromises and fixes that it would damage the integrity of the SANFL, which, in the long run, would be detrimental to the Crows as well.


We don't have a perfect system but it's not likely to change so we need to try to make the most of it.

For me the ideal Crows solution would be a real AFL reserves competition with them playing before the seniors just like they did in the old days.

This however would severely weaken the local league and I on the balance of it all am against it.

 

[WALL-e]

And that is why we need a crow’s reserves side – an SANFL coach has different idea for his player, they have not see the same sort of ‘upside’ compared to Neil Craig or Matt Rendell who selected him.

Different philosophies, different idealistic get in the way and it shouldn’t. The player’s development both positional and standard wise should be the number 1 priority at this stage. If he is not good enough at the moment, fair enough but when the SANFL club is deliberately playing them out of position as it doesn’t suit there environment – that’s when change is needed.

I know what you're saying here, but it would be very hard to get going. I don't think Glenelg are 'deliberatly' playing him out of possy, but rather doing what's best for them.

I'd like to see a crows SANFL team but it would be very hard to do.

If a Crows Reserves side could be set up without destroying/making a farce of the league, then I think it would be the best thing for the Crows. Realistically though it's difficult to imagine it working.

You could set it up so that instead of having a bye, you play the Crows Reserves side. Perhaps no premiership points are on the line but it can contribute to percentage, or something like that. Of course you then deprive anyone on the Crows Reserves side the oppurtunity to compete for a premiership, not to mention you're not going to have a full squad so you will need to bring other players into the squad to fill it up.


That simple paragraph outlines the problem - while a Crows Reserves side would be the best option for the Crows, making it works requires so many compromises and fixes that it would damage the integrity of the SANFL, which, in the long run, would be detrimental to the Crows as well.


We don't have a perfect system but it's not likely to change so we need to try to make the most of it.

If you had the Crows as the bye, who would we get to fill the 22 for s, they'd be players below league reserves level. They'd be playing in a side that doesn't give a stuff about them in a game that doesn't matter vs a team that probably doesn't care either. Would make a mokery on the SANFL I think.

If there Crows enter a SANFL team it would have to be one that would be for points, like any other. Collingwoods VFL team seems to be going ok.

Can the SANFL sustain another team?

 

[WALL-e]

For me the ideal Crows solution would be a real AFL reserves competition with them playing before the seniors just like they did in the old days.

This however would severely weaken the local league and I on the balance of it all am against it.

Not a horrible idea though. I guess the SANFL/VFL/WAFL etc etc would loose all AFL listed players, which in itself isn't too bad. But the players needed to make up the 22 would most likely be taken from the SANFL as well, as plaers would be keen to get on as an opener for the big stage.

 

[Alex99]

If a Crows Reserves side could be set up without destroying/making a farce of the league, then I think it would be the best thing for the Crows. Realistically though it's difficult to imagine it working.

You could set it up so that instead of having a bye, you play the Crows Reserves side. Perhaps no premiership points are on the line but it can contribute to percentage, or something like that. Of course you then deprive anyone on the Crows Reserves side the oppurtunity to compete for a premiership, not to mention you're not going to have a full squad so you will need to bring other players into the squad to fill it up.

Whatever happened to ‘striving to be the best’ – if the crows play but not for premiership point, this would certainly disrupt the fabric of the competition, however of the Crows had a reserves side, wouldn’t every other club have something higher to thrive for?

Why limit something to the status quo because it may make other clubs life a bit more difficult, if that is the case, let kick Centrals and Port Adelaide out as they have won something like 16 of the last 20 premiership. Striving to make the competition the best if possible can be should be the objective, not have a fair and even competition as having something fair and even went out the window a long time ago.

That simple paragraph outlines the problem - while a Crows Reserves side would be the best option for the Crows, making it works requires so many compromises and fixes that it would damage the integrity of the SANFL, which, in the long run, would be detrimental to the Crows as well.


We don't have a perfect system but it's not likely to change so we need to try to make the most of it.

Compromises? How so – let them play and don’t compromise anything. Don’t make any concession or alter the premiership point in any way. Just let them play as by the time June or July rolls around, the AFC will not have a very strong side. A good example as to why the AFC may not dominate, remember 5 or 6 years ago when mark Steven originally hurt his knee at the Norwood pre season game, that crows reserves side lost to Glenelg who finished 7th or 8th the year before.

As the saying goes for player “if they are good enough, they will make it’ the exact same saying has to be applied to the SANFL teams as well ‘if they are good enough, they will win the premiership’ Make everyone else rise to the challenge, rather than keeping things simple.

And the integrity of the SANFL was spoiled years ago – the departure of player to the then VFL, the player retention scheme, the induction of both the crows and Power into the AFL.

Keeping the integrity of the SANFL plays no part at all as that was disrupted years ago.

 

[cmndstab]

Alright, again, let's follow your idea through. So we introduce a Crows Reserves team. Of course, at the moment, every Crows player is aligned with an SANFL club. Do we just remove them from that club into our new club, or do we leave them there and slowly start to move new players into the Crows Reserves list. Of course, building a side this way will take years.

We can only have 46 members on our list at any time, by current rules. Assuming 22 play on a given weekend plus 3 emergencies, this leaves 21 remaining players to field a side in the reserves, assuming we have no injuries. Who makes up the remainder of the squad?

 

[Alex99]

Now he's been given an opportunaty down back, so you start to wonder if that's his calling. So you may want to give him some time there.

But the fact is he has the body and athletesim to be a regular in the SANFL now. That's the target i've set him for my goals. That's not a difficult task for him.

The only thing stopping Jimmy from being an average SANFL player and an AFL gun is a good footy brain. Unfortunately, this can't be gained by riding a bike and running laps etc. This is something you either have, you gain over time from being around the game and you never get. I hope it's a case of number 2 for him.

Or the fact that the Glenelg FC may not see fit in develop him at the expense of one of their regular players.

Why should they give him prime game time in a key position and allow him to develop only to lose in after round 10 or 11? They are aiming for a finals birth and a deep one at that, they need regular key position players, not ones that may not be around one week to the other. They need a squad of players they can count on, that can develop as a cohesive unit not someone who may disappear to the AFL and never come back.

 

[Alex99]

Alright, again, let's follow your idea through. So we introduce a Crows Reserves team. Of course, at the moment, every Crows player is aligned with an SANFL club. Do we just remove them from that club into our new club, or do we leave them there and slowly start to move new players into the Crows Reserves list. Of course, building a side this way will take years.

We can only have 46 members on our list at any time, by current rules. Assuming 22 play on a given weekend plus 3 emergencies, this leaves 21 remaining players to field a side in the reserves, assuming we have no injuries. Who makes up the remainder of the squad?

Of course we do, if Phil Davis was drafted by Hawthorn, he would go play for Hawthorn or Box Hill on the VFL. They are Adelaide Football Club employees, not North Adelaide or Sturt or whoever but Adelaide Crows employees.

Of course the crows are not going to have a reserves reserve side, or any underage sides so maybe this is where the extra player comes from. They could use this opportunity to show there club coach they are good enough to take that next step up. And it’s not like theses player will be used as key positional player as if they are good enough they will be playing league football, not as a supplementary player with the crow’s reserves side.

 

[Mego Red]

If there Crows enter a SANFL team it would have to be one that would be for points, like any other. Collingwoods VFL team seems to be going ok.

Can the SANFL sustain another team?

Yeah, there seems to be a manageable system happening in the VFL.

But no way could the SANFL cope with another team. Seven teams posted a loss last year, and more will this year. Sides will start going broke, especially if the million bucks or more a year from the Crows starts drying up.

I think the SANFL should have mergers. Have a Port and Crows reserves side, plus six other teams. Norwood, Centrals, North, Sturt, South/Glenelg, West/WWT.

Perhaps we could fill out our side with NT footballers?

 

[cmndstab]

Of course we do, if Phil Davis was drafted by Hawthorn, he would go play for Hawthorn or Box Hill on the VFL. They are Adelaide Football Club employees, not North Adelaide or Sturt or whoever but Adelaide Crows employees.

Of course the crows are not going to have a reserves reserve side, or any underage sides so maybe this is where the extra player comes from. They could use this opportunity to show there club coach they are good enough to take that next step up. And it’s not like theses player will be used as key positional player as if they are good enough they will be playing league football, not as a supplementary player with the crow’s reserves side.

I was more talking about a Crows Reserves side and the Crows AFL side.

So suddenly all the SANFL clubs are losing these players they drafted in one swoop. I guess they were going to lose them anyone if they became good enough to play but in the long run at least each club would end up with an average of 3 or 4 AFL players available for them by the current system.

 

[Alex99]

Yeah, there seems to be a manageable system happening in the VFL.

But no way could the SANFL cope with another team. Seven teams posted a loss last year, and more will this year. Sides will start going broke, especially if the million bucks or more a year from the Crows starts drying up.

I think the SANFL should have mergers. Have a Port and Crows reserves side, plus six other teams. Norwood, Centrals, North, Sturt, South/Glenelg, West/WWT.

Perhaps we could fill out our side with NT footballers?

Oh won’t someone please think of the integrity.

 

[Alex99]

I was more talking about a Crows Reserves side and the Crows AFL side.

So suddenly all the SANFL clubs are losing these players they drafted in one swoop. I guess they were going to lose them anyone if they became good enough to play but in the long run at least each club would end up with an average of 3 or 4 AFL players available for them by the current system.

But what’s more important? The current system or Crows players’ development as the crow’s hierarchy see fit.

 

[cmndstab]

But what’s more important? The current system or Crows players’ development as the crow’s hierarchy see fit.

From the point of view of the SANFL, obviously the SANFL is important. The Crows would not be served by the SANFL collapsing.

 

[Alex99]

From the point of view of the SANFL, obviously the SANFL is important. The Crows would not be served by the SANFL collapsing.

So how would the SANFL collapse if the Crows had a reserves side?

Or why are you suggesting the SANFL will collapse?

 

[Thunderstruck]

As far as I'm concerned, the SANFL should not have to bow down to the AFL by allowing a crows (or port) reserves side just for the sake of the AFL clubs. That is what they do in the VFL and to be honest it completely uses those teams as developing the kids for the AFL. Sure, there is nothing wrong with keeping them all together, however the SANFL was not the old VFL that became the AFL, it stayed separate and because of this should not have it's own history and tradition stomped on by altering it for crows/port reserves sides. The kids do well enough at their respective clubs and it instills a sense of tradition and heritage when they pull on that jumper, that jumper means something. Gives them belief for the side they are playing for, that they are playing for a strong and traditional football club that has the culture to help them understand and take the step to be aware of all of this at the next level.

So I am just saying that it would be good to keep the SANFL the way it is, if it aint broke don't fix it. The comp is strong and the kids develop well enough. I don't want to see it go down the path of the current VFL comp, which may be a reasonably solid 2nd level comp but in reality is just 'plastic'

 

[cmndstab]

So how would the SANFL collapse if the Crows had a reserves side?

Or why are you suggesting the SANFL will collapse?

Not necessarily, but on the other hand, the SANFL has been a low way down for a long time, only recently starting to draw good numbers again. Much of that has been because of it's separate identity from the AFL, and that it is represented as a viable alternative with positives that the AFL doesn't have (better spectacle, closer to the ground, cheaper, etc). Something like this again displays the SANFL as little more than an AFL Lite and makes it difficult for the SANFL to continue to rebuild their identity.


Of course, I'm not exactly well versed in the SANFL. I'm sure more knowledgable people than me could tell you whether what I'm saying makes sense or not.

 

[RoosterLad]

As far as I'm concerned, the SANFL should not have to bow down to the AFL by allowing a crows (or port) reserves side just for the sake of the AFL clubs. That is what they do in the VFL and to be honest it completely uses those teams as developing the kids for the AFL. Sure, there is nothing wrong with keeping them all together, however the SANFL was not the old VFL that became the AFL, it stayed separate and because of this should not have it's own history and tradition stomped on by altering it for crows/port reserves sides. The kids do well enough at their respective clubs and it instills a sense of tradition and heritage when they pull on that jumper, that jumper means something. Gives them belief for the side they are playing for, that they are playing for a strong and traditional football club that has the culture to help them understand and take the step to be aware of all of this at the next level.

So I am just saying that it would be good to keep the SANFL the way it is, if it aint broke don't fix it. The comp is strong and the kids develop well enough. I don't want to see it go down the path of the current VFL comp, which may be a reasonably solid 2nd level comp but in reality is just 'plastic'

That is a fantastic post mate.

 

[Alex99]

Not necessarily, but on the other hand, the SANFL has been a low way down for a long time, only recently starting to draw good numbers again. Much of that has been because of it's separate identity from the AFL, and that it is represented as a viable alternative with positives that the AFL doesn't have (better spectacle, closer to the ground, cheaper, etc). Something like this again displays the SANFL as little more than an AFL Lite and makes it difficult for the SANFL to continue to rebuild their identity.


Of course, I'm not exactly well versed in the SANFL. I'm sure more knowledgable people than me could tell you whether what I'm saying makes sense or not.

But if the crows (as the 10th SANFL side) have a reserves side, how will any of this change?

It won’t change, people won’t stop going to the SANFL, people won’t stop spending money at the local level – in fact you will find more people will go. The only change you will see is more people going to the SANFL wearing crow’s colours rather than their own SANFL team. And if that’s the case, the local league should market their own team and product better.

I just get sick of his stupid mentality from SANFL supporter who want every last dollar to prop up there club that the Crows can give out but don’t want to give anything back. They need to get over them self and realize there is a new dog in town and they have to take a step back and know there place.

 

[Alex99]

As far as I'm concerned, the SANFL should not have to bow down to the AFL by allowing a crows (or port) reserves side just for the sake of the AFL clubs. That is what they do in the VFL and to be honest it completely uses those teams as developing the kids for the AFL. Sure, there is nothing wrong with keeping them all together, however the SANFL was not the old VFL that became the AFL, it stayed separate and because of this should not have it's own history and tradition stomped on by altering it for crows/port reserves sides. The kids do well enough at their respective clubs and it instills a sense of tradition and heritage when they pull on that jumper, that jumper means something. Gives them belief for the side they are playing for, that they are playing for a strong and traditional football club that has the culture to help them understand and take the step to be aware of all of this at the next level.

This has ZERO to do with the VFL or any of their sides, or how they do business. It has to do with getting the Crows to perform to the best of their abilities and like it or not, the SANFL is nothing but a feeder system to the AFL now.

The history and tradition was forgotten a long time ago, as soon as they bowed down the big bad boys from Victoria, history and tradition went out the window.

So I am just saying that it would be good to keep the SANFL the way it is, if it aint broke don't fix it. The comp is strong and the kids develop well enough. I don't want to see it go down the path of the current VFL comp, which may be a reasonably solid 2nd level comp but in reality is just 'plastic'

If it aint broke, why not look at a way of making it better. Why not make something good, better and continue to improve upon it.

The SANFL will never get any better because they are frightened of change.

 

[Redline]

I can't get it confirmed anywhere so its just a rumour but I have heard Kite has returned home for an unknown period of time so won't be available for selection for at least a couple of weeks. Anyone know any more?

 

[IddyBiddy]

I can't get it confirmed anywhere so its just a rumour but I have heard Kite has returned home for an unknown period of time so won't be available for selection for at least a couple of weeks. Anyone know any more?

Haven't heard anything. Glenroyboy would be the one who would know. Hopefully everything is ok with his family.

 

[Thunderstruck]

This has ZERO to do with the VFL or any of their sides, or how they do business. It has to do with getting the Crows to perform to the best of their abilities and like it or not, the SANFL is nothing but a feeder system to the AFL now.

The history and tradition was forgotten a long time ago, as soon as they bowed down the big bad boys from Victoria, history and tradition went out the window.




If it aint broke, why not look at a way of making it better. Why not make something good, better and continue to improve upon it.

The SANFL will never get any better because they are frightened of change.

This is where you are wrong. You ask any player, coach or supporter what it means to either pull on the tigers or the double blues or the redlegs gurnsey or wear it in the crowd and they will tell you that the traidtion is alive and well. Those gurnseys have MEANING!!!!!! WE CANNOT LOSE THAT!! It is still there, look at the crowds, look at the strength of the comp compared to the other 2nd tier comps. A lot stronger in so many facets. Modernise it anymore and it becomes more and more plastic. I'm sorry but you can improve the game in many ways but once the tradition, passion and history goes, what is the point?

The AFL is always going to be the AFL, the ultimate aspiration to a young player but lets not kill everything else in the process because before long there won't be a single inch of grassroots left in this country if we keep trying to change things too much.