Injury SJOGHCIU - Offseason Edition

[stinger05]

Yeo
Shuey
Gov
Nic

Are in out top 7 paid players and aren’t playing

Gaff
Darling

Also in our top 7 paid players and are underperforming

Our only top paid player who is performing

Kelly

Who we sold the farm for! I feel for Bunga who took a pay cut, hell even TB should be on better coin.

Most of these players were either injured or playing crap when we offered extensions. That’s why offering Cripps an extension is on brand.

 

[FKASC]

Bit concerning

 

[Godfather32]

They do returf in late spring / summer , normally only have a few month break between footy ending and cricket starting at the Stadium but a few months is enough time with summer rapid growing conditions .
During Summer cricket at Optus the stadium surface is close to pristine perfect.
Ed Sherrin concert has been a setback .

As I said they need warmth in the soil to get good growth and we won't have that until Spring / Summer ....but they'll find a way I think .

The fire breathing eagle statues would come in pretty handy right about now

 

[Bender_]

That injury report was longer than my wedding.

*night

 

[Bender_]

Bit concerning

Tad Bit Concerning

 

[Rowan18]

Yeo
Shuey
Gov
Nic

Are in out top 7 paid players and aren’t playing

Gaff
Darling

Also in our top 7 paid players and are underperforming

Our only top paid player who is performing

Kelly

Who we sold the farm for! I feel for Bunga who took a pay cut, hell even TB should be on better coin.

Most of these players were either injured or playing crap when we offered extensions. That’s why offering Cripps an extension is on brand.

You are right about a number of our top payed players being injured (Yeo, Gaff, Gov).

Shuey and Nic Nat are not our top paid players. They are off their big contracts and have been for a while.

You are completely wrong that Yeo, Gaff, Gov and Darling were crap when extended. They were all in career best form and either were coming off an All Australian year or won one in their first year of the extension. Their declines are the reason for our current predicament. It's actually tragic that we've lost the following so quickly off their last AA:

-Yeo in 2019 - got OP the next year
-Sheppard in 2019 - forced to retire in 2021
- Gov in 2019
-Darling in 2019
- Gaff in 2018
-Nic Nat in 2021

That's a whole heap of talent that fell off a cliff within 2-3 years.

 

[Keys]

Yeo
Shuey
Gov
Nic

Are in out top 7 paid players and aren’t playing

Gaff
Darling

Also in our top 7 paid players and are underperforming

Our only top paid player who is performing

Kelly

Who we sold the farm for! I feel for Bunga who took a pay cut, hell even TB should be on better coin.

Most of these players were either injured or playing crap when we offered extensions. That’s why offering Cripps an extension is on brand.

The inability of our best players to stay on the park is frustrating but the bolded simply isn’t true

Yeo - signed a contract in December 2017 through to the end of 2023 which was extended to 2024 in February last year. Yeo was AA in 2017 and 2019 and B&F in 2017 and 2018. From 2015-19 he played 115 of a possible 121 games

Shuey - signed a 1 year extension on reduced money at the end of last year. He played 17 of 22 games last year

McGovern - signed a contract in July 2018 through to end of 2023. Was AA from 2016-19 and played 113 of a possible 121 games from 2015-19. Rumoured to have signed a 2 year extension on reduced money prior to his hamstring injury

Naitanui - signed a 2 year extension at the end of last year

Gaff - signed an effective 6 year deal in October 2018 through to 2024. Was AA in 2018 and top 3 in the B&F in 2020 and 2021. Has played 260 of 284 games since he arrived at the club

Darling - signed a contract in July 2019 through to the end of 2024. Was AA in 2019. Has missed one game since signing his extension and only 19 total over his career

 

[Dark Sharks]

Not taking anything away from what Keyser is saying, I'm sure they "deserved" it at the time, but that probably needs to change now.



If there's one thing I hope the club takes away from the saga of the last 3 years, is that our list management gets more sensible.

You don't give players in their late 20's biiiig contracts that take them years into their 30's. It should all be on a case by case basis at that point and contracts reviewed yearly due to the fact WA based players drop off a cliff and the end comes quickly once they hit the mark.




Look at Gaff. Look at Darling. They're shadows of their former selves. Hard to believe Gaff ever won multiple AA's, the way he plays these days.

If this means we lose players because they're seeking security or whatever, then so be it. Club has a right to be cautious. Having dads army on the pine the past 2 years has crippled us.


Petch 3 years, Gaff 6 years, Darling 5 years, Kelly 6 years.... is there an actual point to having contracts this long?

Should be 4 years at the absolute most, and that's for a gun player. Certainly not Petrucelle ffs.

 

[CountryLad]

Not taking anything away from what Keyser is saying, I'm sure they "deserved" it at the time, but that probably needs to change now.



If there's one thing I hope the club takes away from the saga of the last 3 years, is that our list management gets more sensible.

You don't give players in their late 20's biiiig contracts that take them years into their 30's. It should all be on a case by case basis at that point and contracts reviewed yearly due to the fact WA based players drop off a cliff and the end comes quickly once they hit the mark.




Look at Gaff. Look at Darling. They're shadows of their former selves. Hard to believe Gaff ever won multiple AA's, the way he plays these days.

If this means we lost players because they're seeking security or whatever, then so be it. Club has a right to be cautious. Having dads army on the pine the past 2 years has crippled us.


Petch 3 years, Gaff 6 years, Darling 5 years, Kelly 6 years.... is there an actual point to having contracts this long?

Should be 4 years at the absolute most, and that's for a gun player. Certainly not Petrucelle ffs.

Hindsight is an easy thing. Not saying we can’t learn from it. But

Go back through the posts when these contracts were announced and there was very little if any negative commentary in these forums.

 

[KERRPOW]

Ah fek...gaff contracted for another year on good coin.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Hindsight is an easy thing. Not saying we can’t learn from it. But

Go back through the posts when these contracts were announced and there was very little if any negative commentary in these forums.

True, you're right. Our S&C wasn't a basket case at that point, be lying if you saw this coming.

That said, generally I cringe when I see us announce a long contract like that. Regardless of who it is. Can't argue when a player deserves it, but you can definitely question the duration. Just reckless IMO.

Anyway it's one thing I hope changes. I don't like the way I start to resent the older players at West Coast when they stick around past their expiration date.

Embley, Cox, Shuey, Hurn, all gone on longer than they should've.

Surely the club recognises this by now? Hit 30 and the output starts to diminish very quickly given the amount of travel.

It's harsh on Hurn, he's put in some decent games over the past couple, but you've also got to ask what the point is? We arent contending, we've got plenty of leaders still around, we should be turning the list over and entering a rebuild phase etc etc... why is he still here?

Because Simmo/the club let's them decide when they want to bow out. Therein lies the problem.

 

[bzparkes]

put Cripps, Cole, Culley, Ryan on LTI list and take 4 picks to MSD.

Just do it

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You know we then need to turn over an extra 4 players, right? That's without taking into account who we're taking in the ND/rookie drafts, or preseason.

 

[KERRPOW]

True, you're right. Our S&C wasn't a basket case at that point, be lying if you saw this coming.

That said, generally I cringe when I see us announce a long contract like that. Regardless of who it is. Can't argue when a player deserves it, but you can definitely question the duration. Just reckless IMO.

Anyway it's one thing I hope changes. I don't like the way I start to resent the older players at West Coast when they stick around past their expiration date.

Embley, Cox, Shuey, Hurn, all gone on longer than they should've.

Surely the club recognises this by now? Hit 30 and the output starts to diminish very quickly given the amount of travel.

It's harsh on Hurn, he's put in some decent games over the past couple, but you've also got to ask what the point is? We arent contending, we've got plenty of leaders still around, we should be turning the list over and entering a rebuild phase etc etc... why is he still here?

Because Simmo/the club let's them decide when they want to bow out. Therein lies the problem.

Fletcher, stenglein.

 

[Keys]

Not taking anything away from what Keyser is saying, I'm sure they "deserved" it at the time, but that probably needs to change now.



If there's one thing I hope the club takes away from the saga of the last 3 years, is that our list management gets more sensible.

You don't give players in their late 20's biiiig contracts that take them years into their 30's. It should all be on a case by case basis at that point and contracts reviewed yearly due to the fact WA based players drop off a cliff and the end comes quickly once they hit the mark.




Look at Gaff. Look at Darling. They're shadows of their former selves. Hard to believe Gaff ever won multiple AA's, the way he plays these days.

If this means we lose players because they're seeking security or whatever, then so be it. Club has a right to be cautious. Having dads army on the pine the past 2 years has crippled us.


Petch 3 years, Gaff 6 years, Darling 5 years, Kelly 6 years.... is there an actual point to having contracts this long?

Should be 4 years at the absolute most, and that's for a gun player. Certainly not Petrucelle ffs.

Age when each of those players signed their big contract and age at contract expiry in brackets :

Yeo - 24 (31)
Gaff - 26 (32)
Darling - 27 (32)
McGovern - 26 (31)

I don’t think any of those are terrible tbh

Free agency has skewed the market such that the best players can absolutely cash in when they’re approaching FA with long term contracts on big money

I don’t think club’s particularly like handing out 5+ year deals but the market dictates that despite the obvious risks. At least we haven’t got multiple 7 year deals on the books like Melbourne, Carlton and Richmond do

We’ve been unfortunate in that all of McGovern, Shuey and Yeo have had injury plagued seasons since 2020 - acknowledging that mismanagement has played its part in that unavailability. Those players were durable prior to signing their contracts

 

[Keys]

Because Simmo/the club let's them decide when they want to bow out. Therein lies the problem.

Broadly I agree with this

Regardless of what happens in the back end of this year I hope that both Shuey and Hurn are pensioned off, preferably voluntarily but pushed if necessary

 

[KERRPOW]

Broadly I agree with this

Regardless of what happens in the back end of this year I hope that both Shuey and Hurn are pensioned off, preferably voluntarily but pushed if necessary

I didnt think it was a good idea for hurn to go around, but we were kind of hamstrung (Pardon the pun) with shuey being our captain and all.

 

[stinger05]

Keys it’s the fact we let Gaff have an extension clause, which he signed when he he was out of form.

Gov another contract when he was injury prone.

Nic you can’t argue was a stupid contract.

Darling’s contract was a two years too long you can’t argue that either.

You didn’t mention Kelly’s.

Yes you may say in separation none of these raised anger at the time, it’s the collection that I have a problem with. Why are we offering Cripps anything more than 1 year contract? Where is he going to go on a two year contract?

 

[Bacchus]

People at the club, reportedly including the players, chose to have Shuey as our captain this season.
No idea why. Too afraid/polite to make the obvious change?

 

[bzparkes]

People at the club, reportedly including the players, chose to have Shuey as our captain this season.
No idea why. Too afraid/polite to make the obvious change?

He offered to stand down but the players voted him in anyway. Sounds like he's just a good leader?

 

[Keys]

Keys it’s the fact we let Gaff have an extension clause, which he signed when he he was out of form.

Gov another contract when he was injury prone.

Nic you can’t argue was a stupid contract.

Darling’s contract was a two years too long you can’t argue that either.

You didn’t mention Kelly’s.

Yes you may say in separation none of these raised anger at the time, it’s the collection that I have a problem with. Why are we offering Cripps anything more than 1 year contract? Where is he going to go on a two year contract?

Gaff’s contract in 2018 was 2 years with a 4 year option - offered at a time when he was all but ready to sign a long term deal with North. (We would have received pick 20 as FA compo). He exercised his option in 2020 and as I posted was top 3 in the B&F in 2020 and 2021. Hardly out of form

Gov was offered his new 2 year contract pre-injury and at the time that wasn’t untoward although I accept that others like you will disagree with that. Provided other veterans are moved on having Gov until 2025 I’m ok with

Naitanui should’ve been a 1 year deal. That said I’ve posted previously on possible reasons why he might’ve been given 2 years. It’s not looking like a bright idea now though

If Darlings contract was 2 years too long it would’ve expired last year. Meaning last year he’d have been an uncontracted 30 year old with no significant injury history with us about to lose JK and our only other KPF of note on the list was Allen who had just missed the entire 2022 season. You’re kidding yourself if we weren’t going to offer him another 2 years had he not been already contracted

Kelly was a 25 year old offered 6 year deal commensurate with offers from both Geelong and Fremantle. He’s played 62 of 70 games so far without the support around him that he and the club would have anticipated

Like Gov, Cripps was close to agreeing to a new deal prior to his injury. Unlike Gov, he didn’t have quite the same injury history so 2 years wasn’t totally unreasonable. That should be reviewed now to an extent and conditions placed on the contract for a second year

We have 8 players who are over or turn 30 this year who will be phased out gradually by 2025 to avoid a massive drop in experience in a single off season. At the end of 2025, our oldest players will be Kelly (31), Hunt (30), Barrass (30) and Sheed (30) - only Barrass (2027) has a contract beyond 2025

Given the lack of quality players we have in the mid to late 20’s on our list, having a handful of older players isn’t the end of the world and is arguably an unfortunate necessity

 

[Obeanie1]

True, you're right. Our S&C wasn't a basket case at that point, be lying if you saw this coming.

That said, generally I cringe when I see us announce a long contract like that. Regardless of who it is. Can't argue when a player deserves it, but you can definitely question the duration. Just reckless IMO.

Anyway it's one thing I hope changes. I don't like the way I start to resent the older players at West Coast when they stick around past their expiration date.

Embley, Cox, Shuey, Hurn, all gone on longer than they should've.

Surely the club recognises this by now? Hit 30 and the output starts to diminish very quickly given the amount of travel.

It's harsh on Hurn, he's put in some decent games over the past couple, but you've also got to ask what the point is? We arent contending, we've got plenty of leaders still around, we should be turning the list over and entering a rebuild phase etc etc... why is he still here?

Because Simmo/the club let's them decide when they want to bow out. Therein lies the problem.

Agree with most of that.

What I hope we have learned is that we are taking massive risks extending player contracts past 30.

We should have a rock solid policy that sure we can offer longer contracts however once a player hits 30 the pay scale then starts to use kpi's to determine price.

If you are over 30 and make the AA squad bingo, bonuses for you. Back to top dollar.

Eg If you are over 30 and are injured for most of the year back to $500k you go. AFL average is $450k.

No long extensions past the age of 31. Reasonable 1 year deals only 30 years or older.

 

[WCErevival]

I thought West Coast always had a policy of 1 year contracts after 30?

 

[KERRPOW]

People at the club, reportedly including the players, chose to have Shuey as our captain this season.
No idea why. Too afraid/polite to make the obvious change?

Theres no real obvious choice to replace him.

Duggan YUK
Barass, at the start of the season i would have said yes but not now
Allen, likely
Gov, too old and injury prone
Nic, see gov

 

[KERRPOW]

Given the lack of quality players we have in the mid to late 20’s on our list, having a handful of older players isn’t the end of the world and is arguably an unfortunate necessity

Agree, and we are seeing the results of this strategy now.
Older players unable to have any meaningful impact due to age and constant injury. So we end up having to rely on those mid to late 20's players anyway.

I dont think we can afford to continue with this strategy going forward.

 

[Cuzz09]

You know we then need to turn over an extra 4 players, right? That's without taking into account who we're taking in the ND/rookie drafts, or preseason.

Yeah just cut the 4 msd players u pick

If they prove they're awesome then re consider

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