Snoops 2016 List Management, Trade and Draft thoughts

[Scodog10]

Happy to agree on the trading up, would have loved to get back into the 1st round. Reality is it's a pretty easy statement to make without actually nominating who you'd be willing to see depart that might allow that to occur... Pendles? Sidey? Reid? Schaz? Just who were you prepared to see depart that would have attracted a 1st round pick? Market dictated the return we got on those players already departed, how would you have done better. Who knows what deals we tried to orchestrate to upgrade our position? So really it's just a nonsense to suggest "we dropped the ball". We did the best we could in the circumstance that we'd gone into deficit securing Aish and Treloar.

As I've already highlighted in a previous post, Rioli isn't the only option they already have. Yarran may well end up at HBF or wing but it's just ridiculous to deny he can play HFF and could also be an option. We've all watched he and Garlett and Betts rip us apart while all playing forward.

No need to trade a gun to move up the draft order just look at St Kilda.

Of course Yarran can play forward, but a) he needs to get back first and b) be used forward anyway. Richmond would be mad not to be seriously considering Daicos given their dearth of class forward of the ball.

 

[Bay Pie]

Happy to agree on the trading up, would have loved to get back into the 1st round. Reality is it's a pretty easy statement to make without actually nominating who you'd be willing to see depart that might allow that to occur... Pendles? Sidey? Reid? Schaz? Just who were you prepared to see depart that would have attracted a 1st round pick? Market dictated the return we got on those players already departed, how would you have done better. Who knows what deals we tried to orchestrate to upgrade our position? So really it's just a nonsense to suggest "we dropped the ball". We did the best we could in the circumstance that we'd gone into deficit securing Aish and Treloar.

I too, am yet to see someone post a trade scenario that would get us into the 1st round with our trade partner willing to do the deal. Surely, if we were made keen to get into the 1st round, which I was hoping for too, wouldn't our trade partner be just as adamant that they wanted to remain in the 1st round. The AFL changed the rules regarding hidden picks, so it made it more difficult to trade with the likes of GWS, for their academy draftees.

I'm afraid the old bigfooty classics like ' Witts + Blair + Cloke + Frost' just doesn't equal a first rounder.

 

[Scodog10]

I too, am yet to see someone post a trade scenario that would get us into the 1st round with our trade partner willing to do the deal. Surely, if we were made keen to get into the 1st round, which I was hoping for too, wouldn't our trade partner be just as adamant that they wanted to remain in the 1st round. The AFL changed the rules regarding hidden picks, so it made it more difficult to trade with the likes of GWS, for their academy draftees.

I'm afraid the old bigfooty classics like ' Witts + Blair + Cloke + Frost' just doesn't equal a first rounder.

It's a good indication of which posters you have on ignore...

 

[jackcass]

No need to trade a gun to move up the draft order just look at St Kilda.

Of course Yarran can play forward, but a) he needs to get back first and b) be used forward anyway. Richmond would be mad not to be seriously considering Daicos given their dearth of class forward of the ball.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me which player we should have off-loaded, confirm that that'd happily agree to go, and the name club that was chasing them and what they were willing to pay... or should the Pies just force players to move and dictate which club they should go to, and what we should get in return? At the moment, your entire argument is baseless speculation, yet you claimed it to be definitive or undeniable or some such.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

But the cap will grow when the new EBA is finalised.

This is true.

Rubbish! Keeffe was trialled forward every year 2011-14 at different times and generally because we had KPD coverage through Tarrant, Brown, Reid and Frost. What we were lacking was someone to play the Leigh Brown role.

I never said anything about 2011 to 2013. Those years are irrelevant to the player he had developed into in 2014 before his ban. In the unlikely best case scenario, the 2014 version of Keeffe is the player we can hope to have in 2017.

Realistically though, he is likely to take some time to get to even that level given the time he's had out of the game. At 26 years of age and with only 40 games experience, he's up against it to even achieve that.

Chris Tarrant had retired by 2014.

Ben Reid played 4 games.

Nathan Brown played 3 games.

Jack Frost came into 2014 as a raw project tall who couldn't kick, with 2 games experience. Yet, despite the fact that we were decimated for experienced key backs to the worst extent I've seen us suffer in my lifetime, he played 22 games, was favoured to Keeffe as a permanent backman and consistently outperformed him in that role.

Keeffe, a fifth year player on the list and a recognised key backman, was still regularly trialled forward that year despite our significant injury crisis because his performances were poor.

It seems like it is you who is talking rubbish.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Didn't want to use 2014 when could barely get a game?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&pid1=3376&pid2=3924&fid1=P&fopt1=2013&fid2=S

Just saying....

He's one of those rare breed of player whose biggest weakness is that he's a ball magnet.

 

[jackcass]

This is true.



I never said anything about 2011 to 2013. Those years are irrelevant to the player he had developed into in 2014 before his ban. In the unlikely best case scenario, the 2014 version of Keeffe is the player we can hope to have in 2017.

Realistically though, he is likely to take some time to get to even that level given the time he's had out of the game. At 26 years of age and with only 40 games experience, he's up against it to even achieve that.

Chris Tarrant had retired by 2014.

Ben Reid played 4 games.

Nathan Brown played 3 games.

Jack Frost came into 2014 as a raw project tall who couldn't kick, with 2 games experience. Yet, despite the fact that we were decimated for experienced key backs to the worst extent I've seen us suffer in my lifetime, he played 22 games, was favoured to Keeffe as a permanent backman and consistently outperformed him in that role.

Keeffe, a fifth year player on the list and a recognised key backman, was still regularly trialled forward that year despite our significant injury crisis because his performances were poor.

It seems like it is you who is talking rubbish.

Again, rubbish! Just point me to the games where Keeffe was played forward - forward/ruck in 2014 given you now need to make it all about 2014 despite the fact that he played all 2011 forward and had other cracks 2012 & 2013. Was a sum total of 1 game from memory but eagerly await your list of games.

 

[DERKADERRR]

This is true.



I never said anything about 2011 to 2013. Those years are irrelevant to the player he had developed into in 2014 before his ban. In the unlikely best case scenario, the 2014 version of Keeffe is the player we can hope to have in 2017.

Realistically though, he is likely to take some time to get to even that level given the time he's had out of the game. At 26 years of age and with only 40 games experience, he's up against it to even achieve that.

Chris Tarrant had retired by 2014.

Ben Reid played 4 games.

Nathan Brown played 3 games.

Jack Frost came into 2014 as a raw project tall who couldn't kick, with 2 games experience. Yet, despite the fact that we were decimated for experienced key backs to the worst extent I've seen us suffer in my lifetime, he played 22 games, was favoured to Keeffe as a permanent backman and consistently outperformed him in that role.

Keeffe, a fifth year player on the list and a recognised key backman, was still regularly trialled forward that year despite our significant injury crisis because his performances were poor.

It seems like it is you who is talking rubbish.

I agree with you in the sense that Keeffe's 2014 was quite disappointing, but the bolded does not make any sense to me. Why would the "best case scenario" be arguably his worst form shown? I understand that you don't rate him but I think that's pretty unfair to say that would be the best scenario.

 

[jackcass]

I too, am yet to see someone post a trade scenario that would get us into the 1st round with our trade partner willing to do the deal. Surely, if we were made keen to get into the 1st round, which I was hoping for too, wouldn't our trade partner be just as adamant that they wanted to remain in the 1st round. The AFL changed the rules regarding hidden picks, so it made it more difficult to trade with the likes of GWS, for their academy draftees.

I'm afraid the old bigfooty classics like ' Witts + Blair + Cloke + Frost' just doesn't equal a first rounder.

I did see a few very creative proposals to trade up but they all rely on another team's agreement and/or the agreement of the player(s) which obviously wasn't forthcoming.

 

[Bay Pie]

I did see a few very creative proposals to trade up but they all rely on another team's agreement and/or the agreement of the player(s) which obviously wasn't forthcoming.

I did see one that included pick 28 & Frost for pick 21 from Brisbane. But as I stated at the time, why would Brisbane want to do that? I'd be ropable if we had pick 21 and traded it for Frost and pick 28. Any trade has to be also viewed from the other camp, in that, would you do the deal if the picks and players were reversed. I haven't seen any, that I'd say yes too.

 

[JustInsideFifty]

I thought it was Lachie Coif???

 

[Snoop Dog]

Has Blair signed yet? Haven't seen anything. Getting a bit late.

 

[Quicky]

Has Blair signed yet? Haven't seen anything. Getting a bit late.

Reports are he's re-signed. So with Marsh gone seems we'll be taking 4 in the ND. Or 3 and a DFA perhaps.

 

[Apex36]

Reports are he's re-signed. So with Marsh gone seems we'll be taking 4 in the ND. Or 3 and a DFA perhaps.

What reports? All I've seen is one post from someone who immediately got banned.

 

[Quicky]

What reports? All I've seen is one post from someone who immediately got banned.

It was at the bottom of an article saying he is thought to have re-signed. It's posted in the Blair thread.

 

[Quicky]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-17/magpie-brodie-grundy-stands-tall-during-preseason-altitude-camp

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

I agree with you in the sense that Keeffe's 2014 was quite disappointing, but the bolded does not make any sense to me. Why would the "best case scenario" be arguably his worst form shown? I understand that you don't rate him but I think that's pretty unfair to say that would be the best scenario.

I know what you mean, but I said that it was best case scenario for 2017, not ever. It's not because I don't rate him either (which I don't), but because leading into 2014 he had been on an AFL list since 2009, had been playing and training almost that whole time and his form was what it was. Right now, he's been out of the system completely for 2 years and hasn't even been allowed to train in an AFL environment.

I hope he surprises me because it would be excellent for the club, but the chances of his form being better in 2017 than it was in 2014 are remote.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

AFL.com.au understands forward Jarryd Blair has agreed to terms with Collingwood and will continue his 143-game career with the club, with the Pies expected to make four selections at next Friday's NAB AFL Draft.

 

[doodles98]

I know what you mean, but I said that it was best case scenario for 2017, not ever. It's not because I don't rate him either (which I don't), but because leading into 2014 he had been on an AFL list since 2009, had been playing and training almost that whole time and his form was what it was. Right now, he's been out of the system completely for 2 years and hasn't even been allowed to train in an AFL environment.

I hope he surprises me because it would be excellent for the club, but the chances of his form being better in 2017 than it was in 2014 are remote.

Boris would you please stop wet-blanketing the return of Keefe with your realistic and rational arguments.

 

[Soups]

Lovely PD Snoop!

 

[swoop42]

I hope we take that Keitel.

He was someone Snoop Dog liked in his draft year but he was passed over by all.

His form this season in the WAFL seemingly shows the Dog was on to something and the highly paid recruiters missed it.

Get Snoop on our recruiting team I say!

 

[Quicky]

The national draft is one week away! Does anyone know what time it starts? And the broadcast details?

 

[Soups]

The national draft is one week away! Does anyone know what time it starts? And the broadcast details?

6.30 for 7 on fox.

 

[Buena]

Also on the AFL app too

 

[Anzacday]

Here's Emma's thoughts...
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-draft-2016-clubbyclub-guide-part-one-20161116-gsqckj.html
COLLINGWOOD

In: Lynden Dunn, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Lachlan Keeffe, Chris Mayne, Josh Smith, Daniel Wells.

Out: Nathan Brown, Travis Cloke, Jack Frost, Corey Gault, Tim Golds, Matthew Goodyear, Brent Macaffer, Dane Swan, Alan Toovey, Marley Williams, Jarrod Witts, Darrean Wyatt, Jonathon Marsh.

Draft picks: 28, 44, 51, 62, 65, 83.

DEPTH CHARTS

TALL FORWARDS: Darcy Moore, Jesse White, Tyson Goldsack.

TALL DEFENDERS: Ben Reid, Lachlan Keeffe, Lynden Dunn.

SMALL/MEDIUM FORWARDS: Jamie Elliott, Alex Fasolo, Jarryd Blair, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Chris Mayne, Ben Crocker, Tim Broomhead.

SMALL/MEDIUM DEFENDERS: Jeremy Howe, Brayden Maynard, Travis Varcoe, Tom Langdon, Matthew Scharenberg, Ben Sinclair, Jackson Ramsay.

MIDFIELDERS: Scott Pendlebury, Steele Sidebottom, Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams, Daniel Wells, Jack Crisp, Levi Greenwood, Jordan De Goey, James Aish, Josh Smith, Adam Oxley, Rupert Wills, Tom Phillips, Brayden Sier, Josh Thomas (rookie).

RUCKS: Brodie Grundy, Mason Cox (rookie).

You may have heard that Collingwood have two father-son options in this draft, Callum Brown and Josh Daicos. It's really hard to imagine the club letting another team take them, though there's a bit of mystery around where the bids will come. The Pies will be hoping to use 28 on someone else, and hopefully their second pick as well. They have roles for Brown and Daicos to grow into. Brown is a run-himself-ragged onballer and Daicos a smart and sharp small forward who'll need to increase his work-rate. Brown sits in the second group of onballers, meaning a bid could come in the 30s or 40s. Daicos could get a lot further down, though he does have some elite traits one club might have taken a real shine to so it's harder to predict where he might fall. The Pies have a clear lack of depth in their key defensive stocks and could look at someone like Jack Maibaum or Brennan Cox. Jordan Ridley isn't as big as those two, but has some versatility to his game that Collingwood might like, while Ryan Garthwaite is a competitive player who should be available late in the draft and Mitch McCarthy could be looked at as a tall defender/ruck prospect. A tall forward would be handy, too, but just like key backmen, clubs don't like to overspend to get one. While both Daicos and Brown could start out in the forward line, they could also look for a genuine crumber. Kym LeBois and Tyson Stengle are two who might appeal.

Father-son draft prospects Josh Daicos (L) and Callum Brown pose for a photo at the AFL Draft Combine last month (Photo: Josh Robenstone).