Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[jumperfan]

Gold Coast took Ben instead of Max and it ruined St Kilda

Max was drafted before Ben.

 

[SuperMal]

Who’s St Kilda?

 

[Toump Ass]

I don’t know why Ross cops the blame, the list is trash.

They have this weird ability to get one-off AA calibre seasons out of players- Dan Butler, Steele, I think Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

was close- but then they just revert to potatos the year after.

Feel for them, they had a great season last year with the talent available but it’s done them a disservice. They need to hit multiple drafts.

 

[Pistol Night]

I don’t know why Ross cops the blame, the list is trash.

They have this weird ability to get one-off AA calibre seasons out of players- Dan Butler, Steele, I think Mason Wood was close- but then they just revert to potatos the year after.

Feel for them, they had a great season last year with the talent available but it’s done them a disservice. They need to hit multiple drafts.

It all went pear shaped when the list strategy was how many "Jacks" they could fit in

 

[westie]

Question though...how can a club like Essendon that hasn't been remotely close to being successful for a decade still get blockbuster fixtures? And how have they still been able to lure the best free agents?

People like drugs?

 

[westie]

I was actually at the game yesterday. I really struggled to understand what the Saints' game plan actually was - there seemed to be almost no cohesion between the defence, mids, and forwards.

I've seen other 'bad' teams where the skill and decision making was poor, but I could at least see what they were TRYING to do. "Okay so they're going to run and carry and play fast on the break...oh God they've turned it over again and the opposition gets an easy goal....well at least they were taking the game on...", kind of thing.

I just found it hard to do that with the Saints. You've got forwards one-out screaming for it, and your first instinct is to turn sideways and do dinky little 15m passes and let your opponents all flood back. Then blindly bomb it inside 50 and expect King to outmark 5 guys at once? What's the plan here, guys?

You have it in one, no plan! They do my head in, it's like watching my grandson playing Auskick. Something of a rabble.

 

[littlecreatures]

Wait so you are talking about trades now?
I thought you were only mentioning free agents.

Hmm let me think.

For St Kilda…Higgins, Jones, Crouch, Steele, Hill, Stocker, Dow, Butler, Bonner, Membrey, Wood.

For North… Greenwood, Stephenson, Corr, Tucker, Shiels, Fisher, Logue, Stephens, CCJ, Nyuon.

And you are really clutching at straws now to look at who chose to stay.

Let’s add Sheezel and Larkeys long term commitment to the club to show what’s all good there eh?

Free agency has been more miss than hit for Saints. Can hardly think of anyone we’ve nabbed except for Crouch. We even paid overs for the Hanners trade at the back end of failure through FA (e.g., Fyfe, Sloane, Kelly, etc), which was abysmal in itself really, then the Hill trade too which got Freo Serong and Acres.

Norf will clearly find it just as hard, two wrongs don’t make a right IMO. Some of the names you’ve got above were delisted FAs too (e.g., Membrey, Wood, Bonner, Stocker).

 

[Great8]

McKay left North.
Goldstein left North.
Shiel chose Essendon over St Kilda and North.
Devon Smith chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Caldwell chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Laverde turned down at Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Draper turned down St Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Hill chose Essendon (but Dodoro couldn't close the deal with GWS)


I'm sure there's more.

Goldy pushed out the door by North and they couldn’t wait to offload McKay once compo was secured.
The others aren’t FA’s and we had to trade for them and most people say we gave up too much for Shiel.
I’d argue that the Saints have recruited just as many of not more players over the last few years

 

[MadMundy]

As I said at the start of the season, no opposition fans has gone into a game with St Kilda and thought "Oh they look quite scary this season"

St Kilda are arguably more irrelevant than North Melbourne at this point, because everyone expects North Melbourne to be shit, some people actually expect St Kilda to be good.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Not really much different to a lot off clubs. Essendon are a big club regardless of recent history

But would being a 'big club' lure and retain the gun free agents if they were playing on Sunday arvos at Docklands every week?

 

[Pistol Night]

But would being a 'big club' lure and retain the gun free agents if they were playing on Sunday arvos at Docklands every week?

We play in front of monster crowds at the G every second week and heaps have told us to GAGF

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Goldy pushed out the door by North and they couldn’t wait to offload McKay once compo was secured.
The others aren’t FA’s and we had to trade for them and most people say we gave up too much for Shiel.
I’d argue that the Saints have recruited just as many of not more players over the last few years

This has nothing to do with anything did right or wrong - it's about the big clubs using their blockbusters games to lure the best available players to their clubs.

"Big games in front of big crowds" is more important than money to players.

This makes it borderline impossible for St Kilda and North to compete.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

We play in front of monster crowds at the G every second week and heaps have told us to GAGF

But those that said GAGF, went to one of the other clubs that get blockbusters every second week.

 

[Pistol Night]

But those that said GAGF, went to one of the other clubs that get blockbusters every second week.

Jaidyn Stephenson was over blockbusters so he went to North so it works both ways

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Jaidyn Stephenson was over blockbusters so he went to North so it works both ways

He's a case in point. Same with Polec and the others that North recruited. They're forced to grab the guys that no one else wants, and pay them overs.

St Kilda has been the same, as have the Bulldogs. Aside from Boyd and maybe Treloar - they haven't been able to buy anyone of note. They've been incredibly fortunate to have the Father-Son and Academy to get good players to their club. Without that, they'd have been fu***d too.

 

[Pistol Night]

He's a case in point. Same with Polec and the others that North recruited. They're forced to grab the guys that no one else wants, and pay them overs.

St Kilda has been the same, as have the Bulldogs. Aside from Boyd and maybe Treloar - they haven't been able to buy anyone of note. They've been incredibly fortunate to have the Father-Son and Academy to get good players to their club. Without that, they'd have been fu***d too.

Its hard to lure players when you're down the bottom unfortunately

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Its hard to lure players when you're down the bottom unfortunately

That's literally my point.

Equalisation doesn't work - because the Draft isn't a fix, and money doesn't work to recruit players.

The only teams that can still lure players when they're no good are the ones with 'big games in front of big crowds'.

And the issue is that whilst the bottom clubs are drafting children into their terrible teams - the top clubs are luring the best available players.

It's simply not working how equalisation was intended.

 

[Rich01]

Free agency has been more hit than miss for Saints. Can hardly think of anyone we’ve nabbed except for Crouch. We even paid overs for the Hanners trade at the back end of failure through FA (e.g., Fyfe, Sloane, Kelly, etc), which was abysmal in itself really, then the Hill trade too which got Freo Serong and Acres.

Norf will clearly find it just as hard, two wrongs to make a right IMO. Some of the names you’ve got above were delisted FAs too (e.g., Membrey, Wood, Bonner, Stocker).

St Kilda and North shouldn’t be whinging about their inability to attract FA talent to their clubs. They need to find a way to make it an appealing place for future employees to work there.

Fix that rather than whinge and moan about it not being fair. Both these clubs have had significant leg ups on father sons and nga compared to other Melbourne clubs too.

They need to take responsibility for their own plight rather than whinge and be seen as handout clubs.

 

[Pistol Night]

St Kilda and North shouldn’t be whinging about their inability to attract FA talent to their clubs. They need to find a way to make it an appealing place for future employees to work there.

Fix that rather than whinge and moan about it not being fair. Both these clubs have had significant leg ups on father sons and nga compared to other Melbourne clubs too.

They need to take responsibility for their own plight rather than whinge and be seen as handout clubs.

Would be deflating knowing the only game you've won the past year cost you Harley Reid

 

[Rich01]

The only teams that can still lure players when they're no good are the ones with 'big games in front of big crowds'.

Examples please.

 

[jannissary]

Examples please.

essendon's been shockingly mediocre for a long time and we've still attracted reasonably good talent.

 

[Rich01]

Would be deflating knowing the only game you've won the past year cost you Harley Reid

Exactly.
How much hope would North fans have right now if they had Reid in their side?

Better still, how much better would North be to watch if they weren’t such a shit show on and off the field in 2022 to be able to properly manage JHF.
It all comes down to having the right plan off the field, to allow the team to execute on field.

Imagine JHF, Reid, LDU as their starting midfield. Then Wardlaw, McKercher, Simpkin, Sheezel and Powell as second stringers. Geez.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Examples please.

Zac Williams chose Carlton over a monster offer from North.

Cerra chose Carlton over St Kilda

Jack Martin. McGovern. Hewitt

All were sought after players.

 

[littlecreatures]

St Kilda and North shouldn’t be whinging about their inability to attract FA talent to their clubs. They need to find a way to make it an appealing place for future employees to work there.

Fix that rather than whinge and moan about it not being fair. Both these clubs have had significant leg ups on father sons and nga compared to other Melbourne clubs too.

They need to take responsibility for their own plight rather than whinge and be seen as handout clubs.

I think that’s the case in point though. The equalisation measures don’t work and there’s unfair competitive advantages for certain teams, there’s not a balance. You’re more likely to stay down the bottom or mid table if you can’t attract talent.

Saints haven’t had a handout from AFL since early 2000s, so I would argue they are taking responsibility, just don’t have the levers to pull which other clubs do, and that’s a bigger conversation.

I really don’t know how you can say Saints have had a bigger leg up from father sons or NGA. That beggars belief.

 

[Rich01]

Zac Williams chose Carlton over a monster offer from North.

Cerra chose Carlton over St Kilda

Jack Martin. McGovern. Hewitt

All were sought after players.

Logue chose North over Richmond.
Himmelberg decided to stay instead of taking similar offers from Collingwood and Richmond.
Crouch chose St Kilda over Geelong.
Liam Henry went to the Saints over the Hawks.
Brad Hill chose the Saints over all other Melbourne clubs.

Lots of examples the other way too.