Autopsy Sydney defeats Geelong by 38 points at KP

[Lester Burnham]

How about the one where his opposition jumped on his back, when he didn't have the footy, pushing him forward.

That was three most comical no call i've ever seen.

How about when Aliir Aliir mugged Tom Hawkins? Play on!

 

[Cursed Cat]

speaking of which, where did he come from?
He looks the goods. Also had no hesitation getting stuck into Clark on the boundary line. They just seem to keep on producing talent year after year from the Sydney factory.

he was rock solid, first time I'd seen him play.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

I can understand it if the umpires make a mistake that the replay shows is wrong. Like the dodgy Cockatoo mark that was paid. But some of our tackles have been textbook HTB and not paid. And not just in this game. Mitch Duncan chased someone down the line against St Kilda. The umpire must have been the only person watching who didn't think it was HTB. Some of the DOOB have been very suspect also. Enright's against St Kilda where he had a bloke on his hammer. And Blicavs this week.

Should we really expect fair umpiring? The draw is rigged. The draft is rigged. The salary cap is rigged. The AFL is concerned with $$$, public relations and social causes rather than running a fair sporting competition.

Not sure if serious...












Tin foil hats and all that

 

[Catastic82]

Had to log off for the night as I would had gone nuts at the typical cats poster that would typically lap up a loss .

Disgusting loss and I don't know what to make of this group at the moment anymore.

Just so dissapointed

 

[lionbear]

Had to log off for the night as I would had gone nuts at the typical cats poster that would typically lap up a loss .

Disgusting loss and I don't know what to make of this group at the moment anymore.

Just so dissapointed

Well there was a player meeting after the game last night, I think we find out the heart of this player group over the next month.

Collingwood have managed to leave the top 4 door ajar for us, do we want to grab it?

 

[Catman]

Have we ever won in Perth under Scott?

2011 - Round 2 v Fremantle by 11pts, lost to WC by 8pts

2012 - Lost to Fremantle by 4pts, WC by 5pts

2013 - Round 21 v West Coast by 66pts, didn't play Fremantle

2014 - Lost to Fremantle by 32pts, didn't play WC

2015 - Lost to WC by 56pts, didn't play Fremantle.

2-5 in Perth under him. 3 losses under 10pts though.

 

[Catman]

How about when Aliir Aliir mugged Tom Hawkins? Play on!

Which time?

 

[Catastic82]

Well there was a player meeting after the game last night, I think we find out the heart of this player group over the next month.

Collingwood have managed to leave the top 4 door ajar for us, do we want to grab it?

Just appears that the group doesn't want to work at it tbh

The talent is clearly there but it's just so apparent to me that they lack the desire.

I'm just so flat after that "performance"

 

[Pivo]

Those preaching for Guthrie in the guts have certainly gone quiet or simply become turncoats. He is and will always play his best football as a small rebounding defender. He could be an AA defender, but will never be nothing more than a B grade midfielder. He simply isn't strong enough to be playing as an inside midfielder or tagger.

When Menegola and Scott Selwood were both missing through injury during the first part of the season, Cockatoo was missing from the first 2 rounds through suspension and then another 6 weeks with a knee injury and Horlin-Smith was tried for all of 1 game and then summarily tossed out of the side after the Collingwood loss (and then also missed a month through injury) I'm left wondering who exactly was supposed to come in to allow Guthrie to be moved back.

There are a few people who constantly bemoan about Guthrie not playing in defence but we just haven't had the players available to consider doing it. Throwing up the names Menegola and Selwood is all well and good but for long periods of the season those 2 guys weren't even available to play.

Horlin-Smith is pretty much friendless on the board and, I reckon, was pretty much made a scapegoat for the Collingwood loss (when many in the side failed to fire a shot that day, much like the subsequent losses to Carlton, St. Kilda and Sydney).

Until Scott Selwood gets some kms into his legs and Menegola shows that he is good enough to play at senior level weekly (and don't forget Menegola, now at his third club, is yet to be tested at senior level so how can anyone truly know how he'll go in the ones until he gets a chance - hopefully he goes well as it then gives us another option in there) there aren't many options to run through the midfield nor have there been throughout the year.

Cowan hasn't really shown too much to inspire confidence that he'll make any difference. Lang is still yet to cement his spot in the side let alone needing the added pressure of a more full-time role in the midfield. Motlop, Duncan and Blicavs all seem to be treading water and are struggling with their own formlines while Bartel's best is behind him.

Caddy is now also injured and is still a few weeks away and even when he was playing Guthrie was still spending time in the middle so Caddy isn't viewed as a replacement for Guthrie in my mind.

A few weeks ago, this thread appeared on the board and most of those who were prepared to offer their opinion had Guthrie inside the top 7 or 8 in the B+F voting to that point in time.

Now, everyone who entered their opinions are, I assume, Geelong fans and watch the games. For the majority of them to have Guthrie on their list it suggests to me that Guthrie has had a reasonable season to date. On top of that, Guthrie's season has seen him spend a decent amount of time in the midfield which lends support to the belief that Guthrie isn't doing too bad a job in there, especially when compared to other midfielders like Motlop, Duncan, Blicavs and Caddy (and Caddy didn't make much of an appearance in the link I supplied).

Guthrie has had a couple of down weeks, even the most one-eyed Guthrie fan (of which I'm one) would admit that. But over the season his performances in the midfield have been more than acceptable (even allowing for Guthrie bias).

But the biggest issue to moving him down back isn't form or where he plays best. It is the fact we haven't had enough other midfielders available to really consider moving him out of there (not that I think he should be).

 

[thegerman]

His kicking is great.
But I agree, he is nowhere near as effective.


You know those 'commeth the moment, commeth the man' occasions?
Yeah well he isn't turning up to them.

Don't bother, whomever they are know more than Duncan himself

 

[jimmy.h]

Yeah mate, you're right

If he has definitely gone backwards it shouldn't take too much to get some supporting numbers together. Or is goals kicked the major stat you use to rate midfielders?

 

[thegerman]

If he has definitely gone backwards it shouldn't take too much to get some supporting numbers together. Or is goals kicked the major stat you use to rate midfielders?

Nah l just rely on what actually comes out of his own mouth.

But hey, you know better right?

 

[jimmy.h]

Nah l just rely on what actually comes out of his own mouth.

But hey, you know better right?

Can I have the quote please?

 

[thegerman]

Can I have the quote please?

It was on SEN go find it.

 

[jimmy.h]

It was on SEN go find it.

Could you paraphrase it please?

 

[thegerman]

Could you paraphrase it please?

How about use google.



But he was quick to talk himself down on Tuesday, believing his best footy was yet to come this season as the Cats set themselves for a tilt at their fourth premiership in 10 seasons.

Duncan is still averaging 24 possessions a game and a Champion Data analysis recently rated him the best kick in the competition this season.



“It’s been a bit up and down,” Duncan said. “I haven’t had a very consistent year, I don’t think for me personally.


That was just the Geelong Addy. Now to paraphrase further, on SEN he did elaborate further saying that he is not doing as well as he wanted to be, especially in contested situations in comparison to previous form.

Again though, you know best obviously.

 

[Burro]

I can understand it if the umpires make a mistake that the replay shows is wrong. Like the dodgy Cockatoo mark that was paid. But some of our tackles have been textbook HTB and not paid. And not just in this game. Mitch Duncan chased someone down the line against St Kilda. The umpire must have been the only person watching who didn't think it was HTB. Some of the DOOB have been very suspect also. Enright's against St Kilda where he had a bloke on his hammer. And Blicavs this week.

Should we really expect fair umpiring? The draw is rigged. The draft is rigged. The salary cap is rigged. The AFL is concerned with $$$, public relations and social causes rather than running a fair sporting competition.

When I read your post I thought you might have cut and pasted one of mine.....but then I saw you punctuation is much better than mine.....

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Could you paraphrase it please?

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/video/2016-07-05/mitch-duncan-press-conference

 

[terry_bright]

When Menegola and Scott Selwood were both missing through injury during the first part of the season, Cockatoo was missing from the first 2 rounds through suspension and then another 6 weeks with a knee injury and Horlin-Smith was tried for all of 1 game and then summarily tossed out of the side after the Collingwood loss (and then also missed a month through injury) I'm left wondering who exactly was supposed to come in to allow Guthrie to be moved back.

There are a few people who constantly bemoan about Guthrie not playing in defence but we just haven't had the players available to consider doing it. Throwing up the names Menegola and Selwood is all well and good but for long periods of the season those 2 guys weren't even available to play.

Horlin-Smith is pretty much friendless on the board and, I reckon, was pretty much made a scapegoat for the Collingwood loss (when many in the side failed to fire a shot that day, much like the subsequent losses to Carlton, St. Kilda and Sydney).

Until Scott Selwood gets some kms into his legs and Menegola shows that he is good enough to play at senior level weekly (and don't forget Menegola, now at his third club, is yet to be tested at senior level so how can anyone truly know how he'll go in the ones until he gets a chance - hopefully he goes well as it then gives us another option in there) there aren't many options to run through the midfield nor have there been throughout the year.

Cowan hasn't really shown too much to inspire confidence that he'll make any difference. Lang is still yet to cement his spot in the side let alone needing the added pressure of a more full-time role in the midfield. Motlop, Duncan and Blicavs all seem to be treading water and are struggling with their own formlines while Bartel's best is behind him.

Caddy is now also injured and is still a few weeks away and even when he was playing Guthrie was still spending time in the middle so Caddy isn't viewed as a replacement for Guthrie in my mind.

A few weeks ago, this thread appeared on the board and most of those who were prepared to offer their opinion had Guthrie inside the top 7 or 8 in the B+F voting to that point in time.

Now, everyone who entered their opinions are, I assume, Geelong fans and watch the games. For the majority of them to have Guthrie on their list it suggests to me that Guthrie has had a reasonable season to date. On top of that, Guthrie's season has seen him spend a decent amount of time in the midfield which lends support to the belief that Guthrie isn't doing too bad a job in there, especially when compared to other midfielders like Motlop, Duncan, Blicavs and Caddy (and Caddy didn't make much of an appearance in the link I supplied).

Guthrie has had a couple of down weeks, even the most one-eyed Guthrie fan (of which I'm one) would admit that. But over the season his performances in the midfield have been more than acceptable (even allowing for Guthrie bias).

But the biggest issue to moving him down back isn't form or where he plays best. It is the fact we haven't had enough other midfielders available to really consider moving him out of there (not that I think he should be).

I know why he's playing in the midfield, and you're right it's been through a lack of options in the midfield but I think you completely missed my point and maybe I didn't state that clearly enough.

With players returning from injury (Menegola, S.Selwood, GHS, Caddy hopefully in the next few weeks) we have to start giving these guys games in the guts as we have a soft midfield group outside of Dangerwood & Caddy to an extent when fit. We were embarrassed last night by a tougher midfield group and Guthrie was a part of that problem. Granted he wasn't the only one. He was tried as a tagger last year and that didn't work out too well, it's part of the reason we got S.Selwood and why Blicavs has been playing as one for the majority of the year.

Also to say Bartel's best is behind him is overstating it a bit. Referring to that thread you highlighted, the vast majority of people ranked Bartel's year higher than Guthrie's. By that rational a player whose career is on a downward trajectory is performing better than one of our younger up and comers. Doesn't bode too well.

His 3 three best games this year for me have been against Port (a team with a very soft midfield group), Adelaide (outside of Sloane and Thompson a pretty ordinary midfield and a team whose greatest strength is it's run from defence and it's forward line) and Hawthorn (the only game I can recall where he has played as a small defender and he did a number on Rioli). Against teams who have good midfield depth and/or are hard at it he has often been found out.

Someone stated here that he though Guthrie was our third best midfielder. If that's the case we are stuffed come finals time. I personally think Caddy is our 3rd best midfielder. Teams rarely win finals let alone the Grand Final with someone like Guthrie as their 3rd best mid especially with his slight build. That's not a knock on Guthrie's physicality or the way he plays it's just how it is. If you can name a GF team in the last 10 years with someone of Guthrie's physicality in their top 4-5 midfielders I will be more than surprised. We have to see who else can play there and it's got to come from the players I listed earlier.

For me he is arguably our best small rebounding defender. Another area we have had issues with this year. IMO to take him out of that position to turn him into an occassionaly good midfielder is a net loss. Remember he was probably our best finals player in 2013 in only his third year as a small defender.

 

[thegerman]

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/video/2016-07-05/mitch-duncan-press-conference

Facts... Why bother using them in basing my random thoughts...

 

[David the Cat]

I don't get how people thought he played well, he was shocking and just bombed the ball in hope every time.

Mackie had 28 disposals, 12 contested possessions (only Danger and Selwood had more ) at 79% DE and 6 tackles (2nd most in the team)...he was far from "shocking"....

 

[terry_bright]

Mackie had 28 disposals, 12 contested possessions (only Danger and Selwood had more ) at 79% DE and 6 tackles (2nd most in the team)...he was far from "shocking"....

Agreed.
I've been critical of Mackie at times this year, but last night i thought he was one of our better players

 

[Partridge]

Agreed.
I've been critical of Mackie at times this year, but last night i thought he was one of our better players

Same here, there were a lot worse than him.

 

[Pivo]

I know why he's playing in the midfield, and you're right it's been through a lack of options in the midfield but I think you completely missed my point and maybe I didn't state that clearly enough.

No, I knew what you were talking about.

With players returning from injury (Menegola, S.Selwood, GHS, Caddy hopefully in the next few weeks) we have to start giving these guys games in the guts as we have a soft midfield group outside of Dangerwood & Caddy to an extent when fit. We were embarrassed last night by a tougher midfield group and Guthrie was a part of that problem. Granted he wasn't the only one. He was tried as a tagger last year and that didn't work out too well, it's part of the reason we got S.Selwood and why Blicavs has been playing as one for the majority of the year.

I'm happy to accept Selwood (although I want a bit more than 1 VFL game to prove he is totally pain free and has good movement in the ankle) but Menegola, who often gets brought up, is yet to play a game at senior level for any of the three clubs he has been at.

Menegola may well be exactly the kind of player we need in the midfield but until I see him play for a few weeks on end I still have him in the "unknown" bucket.

I think you'll find plenty of posters will disagree with you on Horlin-Smith (to the point they'll still prefer Guthrie in the midfield rather than see Horlin-Smith in the side). I agree with you on him though as I think, given a run, he could be a useful mid to complement Dangerfield and Selwood but others on here and, it seems, the coaches aren't as keen for it to happen.

As I outlined in my other post, you can't use Caddy as an option as both he and Guthrie have played together this year and they both spend time in the midfield so Caddy isn't considered an alternative to Guthrie in the coaches eyes.

Also to say Bartel's best is behind him is overstating it a bit. Referring to that thread you highlighted, the vast majority of people ranked Bartel's year higher than Guthrie's. By that rational a player whose career is on a downward trajectory is performing better than one of our younger up and comers. Doesn't bode too well.

Bartel has been rated highly by fans in the role he has been assigned.

I think that last bit is critical. Bartel's year has been considered by a number of posters to have been very good and a few have even conceded they have been surprised by his performances this season.

However, what this rating simply means is; Bartel has been judged to have performed his specific task well. Just like Guthrie has.

Despite Bartel's year, I think quite a number of posters would be concerned if he was asked to perform Guthrie's midfield role and was expected to play there 60-70% of the time he was on the ground.

They'd certainly be mortified if Bartel was stationed in defence full time.

Change the roles around and have Bartel performing Guthrie's role and Guthrie performing Bartel's and I think you'd likely see Guthrie in front of any voting.

His 3 three best games this year for me have been against Port (a team with a very soft midfield group), Adelaide (outside of Sloane and Thompson a pretty ordinary midfield and a team whose greatest strength is it's run from defence and it's forward line) and Hawthorn (the only game I can recall where he has played as a small defender and he did a number on Rioli). Against teams who have good midfield depth and/or are hard at it he has often been found out.

I think you are underestimating the Crows midfield personally but everyone sees things differently.

However, go back to the Hawthorn game and begin watching at the start of the last quarter. You might be surprised to see who was in the middle at the start of that term, with the game in the balance.

Someone stated here that he though Guthrie was our third best midfielder. If that's the case we are stuffed come finals time. I personally think Caddy is our 3rd best midfielder. Teams rarely win finals let alone the Grand Final with someone like Guthrie as their 3rd best mid especially with his slight build. That's not a knock on Guthrie's physicality or the way he plays it's just how it is. If you can name a GF team in the last 10 years with someone of Guthrie's physicality in their top 4-5 midfielders I will be more than surprised. We have to see who else can play there and it's got to come from the players I listed earlier.

I hope I have understood what you mean when you state "...name a GF team in the last 10 years with someone of Guthrie's physicality in their top 4-5 midfielders..."

Cam Guthrie stands at 187 centimetres and weighs 84 kilos.

Hawthorn's Shaun Burgoyne is 186cm and 89kg and I'm reasonably confident he was considered one of the Hawks top 4 or 5 mids in their Grand Final wins.

I'm not saying Guthrie has Burgoyne's talent here. Rather I'm saying Guthrie and Burgoyne have similar body types which is how I've interpreted your comment.

Collingwood had Dale Thomas start in the midfield in both of the 2010 Grand Finals and he weighs the same as Guthrie and is shorter at 185.

For losing Grand Finalists, West Coast used Sheed (185cm/89kg), Shuey (183cm/88kg), Gaff (181cm/81kg) and Masten (179cm/78kg) to back up Priddis while the Saints (against us in '09) had Leigh Montagna in their top 5 and he is only 178cm and 80kgs.

Guthrie could add some extra muscle but I tend to think the idea he lacks upper body strength is a little bit off. I seem to recall a few straight arms dished out by Guthrie in his time that went a little like what you see in the video in this article.

By the way, the player Guthrie fends off is Luke Shuey, a guy who currently averages nearly 6 tackles a game this year.

For me he is arguably our best small rebounding defender. Another area we have had issues with this year. IMO to take him out of that position to turn him into an occassionaly good midfielder is a net loss. Remember he was probably our best finals player in 2013 in only his third year as a small defender.

He probably is our best rebounding defender but that is just as much a reflection on our list management, the stagnation of Bews and the failed attempts at trying Smedts and Murdoch (and even Cowan) off the back flanks as it is a testament to Guthrie's ability.

Ruggles is coming along OK and Thurlow will be back next season. There is a kid on the rookie list called James Parsons who could also potentially develop into a useful half back down the track and we may still look to secure a rebounding half back over the trade period.

Basically, having had this debate earlier in the year, the final consensus was #cloneguthrie

We don't have 2 of him and, throughout the year, we haven't had the opportunity to really play him back for any sort of period.

Now Menegola has 4-5 games under his belt and with Scott Selwood playing his first game today this obviously might change but it isn't really going to change my view that I prefer Guthrie in the midfield.

On top of that, we have concerns with guys like Blicavs (who isn't playing as well as he did last year), Duncan (who isn't as damaging this year) and Motlop (who the f**k knows what is going on with him) who are also putting additional strain on Dangerfield and Selwood.

When you have 3 or 4 midfielders down on form life is tough no matter who is in there.

 

[catempire]

Please post more Pivo.