Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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BrunoV said:
The talls are just stupid now, in a good way.

We have invested a lot in tall players in the last 2 drafts.

As much as I appreciate the time it takes to develop tall players the need doesn't seem that urgent that we needed the second tall in the top 10.

Having said that I suppose we bank what we have now and round the list out.

I'd say Cox's athletic profile makes him somene we have to lool at as a CHF. Use the tank on the lead and the kicking to deliver the ball inside F50.

Long term, given the investment made we're looking at something like:

FB: Brand / McBride
CHB: Reid 3TD: Eyre

R: Draper

CHF: Cox 3TF: Jones
FF/R2: Bryan

As a raw set of attributes it doesnt get any better than that. Tall, super athletic and versatile.

It's a long way off, though. I'd be hoping Stewart and Wright own the forwad spots for the next 3 years at a minimum.

More immediately Reid and Cox play at half back.

Really like the Perkins selection too. He's as un-Essendon as a midfielder gets which is a very good place to start.
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perkins does remind me of the talk pre-draft on Laverde
But i dont mind that. Laverde just never got a chance with injury. no reason to shy away from a tall, impact mid.

we're at 0 recognisable small mids
last spot will be an interesting one
 
Okay, breaking it all down (with essentially 2 players to add with Mozzie LTI):

Defence:

Key Defenders: Michael Hurley, Cale Hooker (KF), Patrick Ambrose, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Zachary Reid (KF/Ruc), Cody Brand (KF); Rookie: Cian McBride
Medium Defenders: Aaron Francis, Jordan Ridley; Rookie: Martin Gleeson
Small Defenders: Mason Redman, Matthew Guelfi (OM), Lachlan Johnson (SF), Nick Hind; Rookie: Ross McQuillan

Midfielders:

Inside Midfielders: Andrew McGrath (SD), Darcy Parish (SF), Zachary Merrett (OM), Dylan Shiel, Jye Caldwell (SF), Archie Perkins (MF); Rookie: Dylan Clarke (SF),
Outside Midfielders: Kyle Langford (MF), Tom Cutler (MD), Dyson Heppell (IM), Brayden Ham (SF); Rookies: Will Snelling (SF), Thomas Hird (SD)
Rucks: Nick Bryan (KD/KF), Andrew Phillips, Sam Draper

Forwards:

Key Forwards: James Stewart (KD), Harrison Jones, Peter Wright (Ruc), Josh Eyre (KD), Nikolas Cox (KD/OM)
Medium Forwards: Jayden Laverde, Jake Stringer
Small Forwards: Devon Smith (OM/SD), David Zaharakis (SD), Irving Mosquito, Ned Cahill, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

So essentially we have 15 KPP's on the list. Ideally I'd add Trew and Dunkley on top of that.
 

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Draft and stash away 2 last year and 4 this year, I personally think it’s overkill and a good example of how you can have a good night and pick up great talent but still illustrate you’ve got very little idea about how to build something coherent and current.

Either that or the philosophy is that anyone we draft now beyond probably Perkins isn’t playing next year anyway so we may as well go supersized and file them away for later and go boonta with smalls in the next couple of years with next year looking good for mids and the Davey twins in the pipeline.

Loving that they athletic profile we now have with our young talls though, Cody is probably the most unimpressive of the lot but he’s certainly no slouch at all and they all use it really well, I’d almost play Cox in the Sam Docherty loose man role next year and let him scythe teams up with his leg.
 
Megabattimus said:
Think loading up on talls this year will work if two of Hooker, Hurley, and Ambrose retire end of next year and if we load up on mids in the draft.
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Well Hurley is contracted for 2022 so I doubt he retires next year
 
eth-dog said:
Well Hurley is contracted for 2022 so I doubt he retires next year
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That's true, but like Jack Steven got paid out of his final contract year and a couple other guys did as well this year. Hurley could just decide that his body can't go another year. It's pretty unlikely though, at this stage anyway.
 
There is no doubt that not every tall we drafted in the last 2 years will fit on the same team together. That's not as bad as it sounds though because realistically they won't all make it. No team hits every pick and talls fail more often by far particularly when you consider most of them were drafted after pick 20. So I'm not exactly shaking in my boots that we have too many great talls and we won't be able to play them all. Plus you look at our current spine and its really just Draper that looms as both quality and a 3+ year prospect. So we really had a lot of work to do in this area.

I also think our midfield really isn't that bad. Yes we would love an elite bigger bodied mid or two to round it out but we'll no doubt have a real opportunity to go for someone like that next year whether that's by draft or by trade. We'll probably look back at this year and next year as 2 big drafts (one for talls and the next for smalls) that will set us up for our next tilt (hopefully).
 
Towno78 said:
Bryan 19 202cm
Jones 19 194cm
McBride 19 197cm
Cox 18 202cm
Reid 18 202cm
Eyre 18 198cm
Brand 18 196cm

Boy that's a lot of talls in 2 drafts.
+ Crauford also.
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And we will still find a way to bomb the ball long in to Walla and have Gleeson on Jack Darling. You'd have to think some of these guys will work out but also a couple could get washed aside pretty quick which is what happened with Crauford knowing we would get at least 3 talls this draft.
 
It looks to me like our midfield is set to be beaten up again, Dodoro having followed the Kevin Sheedy model by building the spine first. It makes Hibberd's delisting seem premature given we could use him at the coalface. Not sure Gleeson's required now either. Do we bring in Kyle Dunkley? Is that the plan?
 
Zach Package said:
Draft and stash away 2 last year and 4 this year, I personally think it’s overkill and a good example of how you can have a good night and pick up great talent but still illustrate you’ve got very little idea about how to build something coherent and current.

Either that or the philosophy is that anyone we draft now beyond probably Perkins isn’t playing next year anyway so we may as well go supersized and file them away for later and go boonta with smalls in the next couple of years with next year looking good for mids and the Davey twins in the pipeline.

Loving that they athletic profile we now have with our young talls though, Cody is probably the most unimpressive of the lot but he’s certainly no slouch at all and they all use it really well, I’d almost play Cox in the Sam Docherty loose man role next year and let him scythe teams up with his leg.
Click to expand...

We picked the shit out of the better rated talls rather than speculative mids. We didn’t get a chance later in the draft anyway (NGA Bids) plus leaving one (possibly two) list spots open for SPP additions if not mid season drafts.

I’d also like to reiterate to everyone that Cox is an athletic freak who may be tall but is more a running man than a hulking KPP whilst Eyre showed he is more than just a tall at the state combine.

Brand came into the year highly rated and could have been higher if he played and Reid is that supersized prototype AFL defender.


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Zach Package said:
Draft and stash away 2 last year and 4 this year, I personally think it’s overkill and a good example of how you can have a good night and pick up great talent but still illustrate you’ve got very little idea about how to build something coherent and current.

Either that or the philosophy is that anyone we draft now beyond probably Perkins isn’t playing next year anyway so we may as well go supersized and file them away for later and go boonta with smalls in the next couple of years with next year looking good for mids and the Davey twins in the pipeline.

Loving that they athletic profile we now have with our young talls though, Cody is probably the most unimpressive of the lot but he’s certainly no slouch at all and they all use it really well, I’d almost play Cox in the Sam Docherty loose man role next year and let him scythe teams up with his leg.
Click to expand...
In a vaccuum thats a lot, however in context it makes sense.

Hooker is OOC next year and is likely to retire or be moved out end of next year. Ambrose is 30 and cant get on the park, Hurley OOC the year after.
On the other end of the field our two main key forwards project to be a guy who has played 55 games in 8 years (Stewart) and a guy we just traded a future 4th rounder for (Wright). If two of those 5 on our list in 3 years i would be stunned.

This was an investment into the future, the only young tall with senior exposure is BZT, who the jury is still well and truly out on.

We dont expect to contend for finals for the next two years, so give them time to develop, a game every now and then, and focus our picks in the supposed 'superdraft' on gun mids likely to go around our pick (Sinn, Johnson etc).

Talls are a bit of a lottery when it comes to development. Take as many good ones as you can and see who develops
 

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Yoda_ said:
We picked the sh*t out of the better rated talls rather than speculative mids. We didn’t get a chance later in the draft anyway (NGA Bids) plus leaving one (possibly two) list spots open for SPP additions if not mid season drafts.

I’d also like to reiterate to everyone that Cox is an athletic freak who may be tall but is more a running man than a hulking KPP whilst Eyre showed he is more than just a tall at the state combine.

Brand came into the year highly rated and could have been higher if he played and Reid is that supersized prototype AFL defender.


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Click to expand...

And that’s fine, I really believe in all these guys, but it’s a midfielders game and it has been a midfielders game for a couple of decades, until we get that right we cannot be competitive, we’re essentially electing to be crap.
 
Ati Tude said:
And we will still find a way to bomb the ball long in to Walla and have Gleeson on Jack Darling. You'd have to think some of these guys will work out but also a couple could get washed aside pretty quick which is what happened with Crauford knowing we would get at least 3 talls this draft.
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Of our current young talls, we can bank on Ridley and Draper. Doubts on Francis and BZT.
So we probs need at least 3 of the 7 from above list to become genuine quality.
 
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Zach Package said:
Draft and stash away 2 last year and 4 this year, I personally think it’s overkill and a good example of how you can have a good night and pick up great talent but still illustrate you’ve got very little idea about how to build something coherent and current.

Either that or the philosophy is that anyone we draft now beyond probably Perkins isn’t playing next year anyway so we may as well go supersized and file them away for later and go boonta with smalls in the next couple of years with next year looking good for mids and the Davey twins in the pipeline.

Loving that they athletic profile we now have with our young talls though, Cody is probably the most unimpressive of the lot but he’s certainly no slouch at all and they all use it really well, I’d almost play Cox in the Sam Docherty loose man role next year and let him scythe teams up with his leg.
Click to expand...


It all seems like a bit of an indulgence, we didn't really have to take all 4 talls this year but there are at least 2 key issues:

1. potential unavailability of a functional set of tall defenders for 2022. Hooker can barely move, Hurley is a shadow of what he was and Ambrose is not durable. BZT is not a long term option and Francis doesn't have the size or athleticism. It left us with an Irishman (McBride), a ruckman (Bryan) and our number 1 forward (Stewart) as the options. It's not inconceivable to me that Reid, Brand and Cox raffle spots as mainstays in our defence in 12 months time.

2. a seeming lack of options that really screamed out as a must pick or other best available selection who addressed one of the areas of need. There was a lot of uncertainty surrounding a lot of players and no midfield that really jumped out, having regard to the reality that Essendon rates the midfielders it has. While we are screaming out for quick half back the only apparent option was tied to Port. Listening to Rendell, the only mid he spoke about that made me nervous about overlooking was Stone (who sounds like another dynamic inside mid in that Callan Ward-ish mould). Where would Stone fit in the next 3 years, we can't fit many more mids into the team. I doubt I could have been convinced that there is a small forward who we ought to pick in the top 10 of a draft.


In terms of the overall balance of the list, we are going to have to let the dust settle a little bit. In light of the above, I'm going to say we've almost certainly made the right calls last night. I don't like the middle of the ground as things stand but the club does. Perkins is a dream fit based on what it looks like he can bring. Maybe Caldwell will surprise. In defence we have Hind to add to Redman but it is McQuillan who I think is the bolter over the next 18 months. Ridiculously quick, doing the times the likes of McInness did at the Metro combine with a tail wind (that means the results don't count in the record books). His kicking is a thing beauty.

I'd still like another quick small/mid-sized player for defence. Whether we're still interested in Stoddart or we can nab Duval, I think is the mature ager from the SANFL. We probably just sit on our small forward stocks another year. Tippa, Smith and Cahill is enough with Mozzie to return.


I have to say I thought Rendell was fascinating last night. For a start the things he values translates to really good players so it was a great perspective to have. The recruiters mostly all have an eye for it but some are seduced by flashy things more than others (e.g. Dodoro and Scott Clayton). Rendell seems to be much more about fundamentals. He almost spoke most glowingly about flashy players he ranked on the wrong side of 40. But what was most interesting is hearing him him rationalise a position. It really just shoots the notion of "best available" as an objective standard to pieces.

Look at all of the factors that could be crucial. Did the recruiter attend "that game" or "those few games"? Particularly significant for the interstate games. What does the club need? What attributes does the recruiter value? He was talking about McDonald as a generational key forward and he didn't seem to be enamoured with him.
 
blitzer said:
There is no doubt that not every tall we drafted in the last 2 years will fit on the same team together. That's not as bad as it sounds though because realistically they won't all make it. No team hits every pick and talls fail more often by far particularly when you consider most of them were drafted after pick 20. So I'm not exactly shaking in my boots that we have too many great talls and we won't be able to play them all. Plus you look at our current spine and its really just Draper that looms as both quality and a 3+ year prospect. So we really had a lot of work to do in this area.

I also think our midfield really isn't that bad. Yes we would love an elite bigger bodied mid or two to round it out but we'll no doubt have a real opportunity to go for someone like that next year whether that's by draft or by trade. We'll probably look back at this year and next year as 2 big drafts (one for talls and the next for smalls) that will set us up for our next tilt (hopefully).
Click to expand...


Whether players make it or not will come down to opportunity as often as not, and opportunity tends to get given to players clubs invest in.

I would be more surprised if the crop of 6 taken in the last 2 years are not all on the list long term.
 
We were certainly thin on talls entering the draft - particularly given the likelihood that none of Hooker, Hurley and Ambrose will be there in two-years - and that is no longer the case.

It's very hard to judge the talent since so few of them actually played any games this year. My immediate reaction to Perkins was to shake my head - another flanker with midfield aspirations (really?) - only to remember that had he played this year he likely has much greater exposed form as a midfielder. Talls are even harder to judge.

None of the picks really help us in the near-term - talls are inevitably projects - so unless there is significant growth within the playing group or Rutten ends up being more effective as a solo act then we are heading for another top 5 pick next year. That would hopefully allow us to grab an exciting midfield prospect ideally not child-size.
 
Zach Package said:
And that’s fine, I really believe in all these guys, but it’s a midfielders game and it has been a midfielders game for a couple of decades, until we get that right we cannot be competitive, we’re essentially electing to be crap.
Click to expand...


Already sort of addressed this but the election is to have the shit midfield. It's a matter of preference at this stage. The age profile, investment, etc means that's what we're stuck with for the next 3 to 5 years.

It doesn't change the reality that we needed the talls.

I agree in the sense that I would rather not be hoping that 3 to 4 players I would never have brought to the club end up coming good. Given the midfield we have, I think we're probably out of any real running for that 3 to 5 years. The spots just wont open up to justify a raid of midfielders in the draft.
 
The club may not be saying it publicly but this draft indicates that we’ve just begun a full-scale Sheedy-method rebuild. Dodoro knows it.

Also indicates Rutten’s influence, he does seem partial to KPDs. I take it he doesn’t rate too many of the ones that were on the list before last night (bar Ridley).
 
Oh also, it looks like we still hold a candle for J.Dunkley, being that we haven’t acquired anything else like him.

What do we look like in 12 months if we just add Dunkley and the Davey twins? What holes will we still have, best case/worst case scenario?
 
My realistic player comparisons:

Nik Cox: Peak Justin Westhoff (200cm wing version)
Archie Perkins: 2018-9 Christian Petracca
Zac Reid: Lachie Keefe with better skills
Josh Eyre: Nick Larkey?
Cody Brand: Alex Keath
 
Zach Package said:
Draft and stash away 2 last year and 4 this year, I personally think it’s overkill and a good example of how you can have a good night and pick up great talent but still illustrate you’ve got very little idea about how to build something coherent and current.

Either that or the philosophy is that anyone we draft now beyond probably Perkins isn’t playing next year anyway so we may as well go supersized and file them away for later and go boonta with smalls in the next couple of years with next year looking good for mids and the Davey twins in the pipeline.

Loving that they athletic profile we now have with our young talls though, Cody is probably the most unimpressive of the lot but he’s certainly no slouch at all and they all use it really well, I’d almost play Cox in the Sam Docherty loose man role next year and let him scythe teams up with his leg.
Click to expand...
Another way of looking at it is this.

Oliver is OOC next year and Dunkley is a year closer to being OOC. We are in a better position next year to be spending draft picks to land the big bodied mid we need given we're set for KPPs for probably 10 years. The Davey twins coming in 2022 means we can trade out our future first if we need. If we don't land an Oliver or Dunkley type, then next year's draft is far better for inside mids anyway so we can make it a focus.

In the meantime, Shiel, Merrett, McGrath, Caldwell, Parish and Heppell with Stringer rotating through is still a decent midfield.

If I were Rutten, I'd be demanding for players like Laverde, Stringer, Walla and Redman to improve their tank to increase their midfield time if we need it. I'm also hoping we pick up Kyle Dunkley and maybe Maher for some midfield depth.
 
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