Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[blitzer]

I thought that but was recently reminded that we’ve got Cox, Langford as essentially starting wingers and a number of smaller guys who can roll up there.

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Its an interesting one. It really depends on where you see Cox and Langford playing. Cox its hard to tell where he's going to develop because he could legitimately play any role in the future, although I do like him playing on the wing at the moment whilst he's so skinny. Langford seems like a 50-60% forward who then rotates on the wing the rest of the time.

But others might see Cox as a wing long term and Langford as a guy that could play the role full time (I don't like this as the best use of Langford personally).

 

[eth-dog]

And on evidence this year, a lot can change. Tippa is our only natural small crumbing forward. We don’t seem to have faith in Cahil whilst the abundance of others are not that dynamic small forward I’m suggesting. Davey could be but that is 12 months away.. still


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I'm not worried about small forwards in general. "Natural crumbing forwards" aren't exactly a huge commodity in the AFL. I doubt there would be more than 20-25 currently playing in the AFL. Walla probably has another 5 years left in him given he's missed 1 game of AFL ever, Snelling does a good enough job, Waterman is stylistically a medium but he often gets smaller defenders. Don't really need to focus in on that draft wise. I'd rather get another small defender

 

[Yoda_]

I'm not worried about small forwards in general. "Natural crumbing forwards" aren't exactly a huge commodity in the AFL. I doubt there would be more than 20-25 currently playing in the AFL. Walla probably has another 5 years left in him given he's missed 1 game of AFL ever, Snelling does a good enough job, Waterman is stylistically a medium but he often gets smaller defenders. Don't really need to focus in on that draft wise. I'd rather get another small defender

Small forwards can come on quickly or slowly though. I dunno, get a feeling that if we don't offer Ned Cahil a year we'll be in the market for another one. Small forwards can always role up to the wing and even become an onball rotation (see Narkle @ Cats, Bolton @ Tigers). Our small forwards seem stuck in that almost there mids who are great role players but not as dynamic as someone like our Tippa, Narkle.

 

[Megabattimus]

Cahill will probably get another year if he can keep playing well as a defensive mid in the VFL.

 

[Ants]

He'll be 24 next year. I'm hardly advocating getting a 29 year old with only a couple of years left. He's basically a key defensive version of Peter Wright who is ready made but not in the twilight of his career. Jones has benefitted from having Wright and Hooker beside him.

And Reid/McBride/Brand would have 3 of Stewart, Lav, Francis and Ridley around them. So we don't need a journeyman. If we do, just keep Ambrose and play him.

Unless there is reason to believe he'll be better than the kids we already have, it would be stupid to use a list spot on him, rather than on a small. Hell, we've got nobody behind Heppell/Hind/Redman other than Hird, who is miles off it (or Gleeson who will be gone). With our current injuries, we've got virtually nobody except Cahill who could come in either midfield or up forward. Yet we had Brand, McBride Zerk and Ambrose all play on the weekend.

Talls are just not a priority, especially ones who are just good journeyman.

 

[Ants]

And on evidence this year, a lot can change. Tippa is our only natural small crumbing forward. We don’t seem to have faith in Cahil whilst the abundance of others are not that dynamic small forward I’m suggesting. Davey could be but that is 12 months away.. still

Why do you say this?

 

[fairbump_playon]

In game time sense (125-ish minutes of game time), 78% is a little under 100 minutes on the ground, 61% is a tad over 75 minutes. It's a huge difference in terms of TOG.

I don't think what he's done warrants more than 2 years.

You get hung up on very specific things
sometimes

His current TOG is not going to determine the length of his next contract

His capability and potential are clear. When Draper was contracted for 4 years he hadn’t played a senior game. Bryan has, and acquitted himself well. You could focus on that.

We need to keep him. He’s pretty close to the level already and he is only going to get better. I’d be fine with 4.

I reckon you would save money with 4 because if we give him 2 there will be intense bidding at the end of that one.

 

[Towno78]

Why the desperation to move Phillips on?

I mean, he’s ‘only’ 29, seems content with where his AFL journey is at and with such an exciting duo to teach (Draper + Bryan), I’d be stoked if he stayed another year. Seems a perfect #2 > #3 listed ruck.

Ideally adding an 18 year old long term option wouldn’t be a bad thing. Unless you want to push Bryan down to #4 on the list of our rucks?


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Absolutely. With Draper Phillips Bryan and Wright, we'll be fine for rucks next year.
I highly doubt we take a ruck next year, but it'd be an 18yo project if at all.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

You get hung up on very specific things

Hi fairbump, have you met eth?

 

[Towno78]

Haven't done one of these in a few weeks so here goes:

3+ years: Darcy Parish, Jake Stringer, Mason Redman
2 years: Jayden Laverde, Harrison Jones, Nick Bryan, Ned Cahill, Will Snelling, Cian McBride
1 year: Martin Gleeson, Patrick Ambrose, Andrew Phillips, Kaine Baldwin, Alec Waterman, Tom Hird, Greg Clark (who I think we take in the MSD)

Delist/retire: David Zaharakis (ret), Tom Cutler, Irving Mosquito, Cale Hooker (ret), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Lachlan Johnson, Dylan Clarke

Trade/FA:

1. Zach Merrett (still think he goes) to whomever, get pick 5/6 back.

2. Matthew Guelfi to Freo/WC (rumours last year that he might go home) for a future 3rd or something, otherwise 2 years

3. George Hewett for a future second round pick (or sign as a FA if Merrett stays)

4. Lewis Young for a future 3rd round pick

Given after the MSD we'll be essentially +2 players for the year that means we have 5 places to fill, all of which can be ND picks I believe.

Pick 5: Josh Sinn (186/72 OM/Utility)
Pick 6: Matthew Johnson (191/80 IM)
Pick ~43: Inside Midfielder
Pick ~50: Small defender
RD 5: Small defender

I think we need to get the midfield and defence right this year. I think a couple of young small defenders will be important, even if Sinn can play as a sort of half back. Willing to wait on getting another small forward with the Davey twins (having no idea where they'll be next year) unless Tex is that sort of player as well.

Another year for Gleeson lol. Your love runs very deep.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Hi fairbump, have you met eth?

LOL. I haven't but I would genuinely like to. Love his passion and singlemindedness

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

New players this year:
- Wright
- Hind
- Cox
- Perkins
- Waterman
- Caldwell
- Reid
- Eyre
- Brand
- Baldwin

So far the additions have been remarkably positive and met needs. Caldwell looked excellent but a history of soft tissue injuries is concerning. Reid looks good but no real chance to assess yet. Baldwin, Eyre and Brand were always meant to take a little longer.

However just as big a success story for us list wise this year is seeing the coaching panel utilise existing players in better ways:
- Hooker: Looked shot but is now essential to the success of our functioning forward group.
- Laverde: Astounding success so far down back. Thought likely to be delisted this year by most.
- Stewart: Always had size and athleticism but stagnated as a forward. We needed someone of his size down back and he seems to be improving quickly.
- Parish: Maybe fortuitous in terms of coaches hands were forced, but his breakout has flow on effects when Shiel/Caldwell come back that should benefit all.
- Heppell: Has worked into the year well, improving a lot after long term injury and helped the defensive group have more calm and leadership. Was also not suited to the middle anymore.

Worth noting the way they are using the senior players is not preventing the development of the promising kids. Another tick there.

Not to mention the return to form of Redman.

Then you add existing players who are now best 22:
- Draper
- Jones

To me what this shows is what a lot of us have banged on about for a long time. Cohesive vision and clear communication between list management and coaching staff is essential to success. It's always seemed obvious to me but there was disconnect for so long. They are both so intertwined. There are times when a good coaching group will look at what they have and adjust plans to that and times when list managers need to acquire the types of players that suit what the coaching group need.

We have a long way to go, but I feel so positive about the senior coach and coaching group this year and feel like they've played a large role in making the best of our list, in co-operation with Dodoro and company.

I'm interested in what they do mid and off-season. I hope this is a trend and not a one off.

 

[andleanback]

Oscar Clavarino is another one I’m watching intently on if/when he debuts.


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Struggles at vfl level. Phillips should get another year great cover as a 3rd option. If we delisted him we’d just have to pick up another one off the ruck merry go round.

 

[andleanback]

He can't run or defend anymore. Unless he marks it he's a liability.

He’s done exactly what’s required of him this year, and it means Jones gets the 3rd tall every week. Great for his development.

 

[brutus76]

I'd be happy to swap our 1st rounder for one of Richmond's late 1st, a 2022 2nd and a 2021 3rd

2022 2nd stockpile for Davey x2

You take a mid with the 1st from the Tigers (Matt Johnson, Braden Andrews or Josh Goater)

Would be sad to lose Mozzie if he's not dong his rehab right - i think he and Johnno's kid should at least be rookied coming off knees

BZT, Clarke, Cutler, Gleeson and Ambrose would be on the chopping block

Guelf maybe if he wanted to go home say Freo straight swap for Blakely or Tucker

Hooker, Zaka, Hurls retiring would save some dosh (around 2 million)

So maybe turn pick 5-9, and two picks in the 40s/50s into 15, 3 picks in the 40s/50s and banking a second rounder for 2022 is smart.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Hooker, Jones, Walla, Snelling, Stringer, Waterman, Perkins, Langford, Wright, Smith

I love our forward line

 

[Zach Package]

Comms between list management and coaching in terms of Rutten and the silver foxes (great band name) laying out what he wants and Dodoro and RFK going out and finding it seems to be much, much improved

 

[Zach Package]

Imbalance is about to rear it’s ugly head again by the looks of it.

Can hardly plan for this many injuries in the best 22 midfield rotation but there is not only no one really pushing up from beneath apart from Cahill, but no one physically on the list.

It’s pretty clear what we need to do, but we can’t do that until draft time unfortunately.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Any talk of the AFL increasing list sizes to their pre-covid levels?

 

[Yoda_]

It's been pretty clear what each player in the best 18 bring to the team. Its that next group of guys with many question marks on we need answers to.

Replace guys like Johnson, Cahill with genuine midfield personell and the list balance has much more clarity to it.


Ideally another 7 - 8 players are moved on at years end (from both lists) and we get specific player types in for specific roles.

 

[Zach Package]

Ideally another 7 - 8 players are moved on at years end (from both lists) and we get specific player types in for specific roles.

Interesting that you would phrase it in that way, have we not already done a lot of this but just refused to get those like for like replacements in the middle?

We’ve done it for every other part of the ground, the issue is injuries basically have not hit anywhere but the midfield, which is not only where the least coverage is, there is literally no coverage.

 

[Yoda_]

Interesting that you would phrase it in that way, have we not already done a lot of this but just refused to get those like for like replacements in the middle?

We’ve done it for every other part of the ground, the issue is injuries basically have not hit anywhere but the midfield, which is not only where the least coverage is, there is literally no coverage.

Depth in this part is tearing it’s ugly head. You turn a Johnson into a Charlie Constable and we’re all frothing at the bit.

Cahil was brought in with exposure as a small fwd, plays VFL as a mid. Two most evident examples for mine.


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[eth-dog]

Depth in this part is tearing it’s ugly head. You turn a Johnson into a Charlie Constable and we’re all frothing at the bit.

Cahil was brought in with exposure as a small fwd, plays VFL as a mid. Two most evident examples for mine.


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Okay, seriously. Charlie Constable was seen as a slider at pick 36 and was talked as someone who could have been late first round or early second round as late as August of his draft year. Johnson was seen as a late to rookie selection.

 

[Keystone agony]

Bye:

Cahill
L.Johnson.
BZT
Zaharakis
Cutler

Potentially a Mosquito, Ambrose, Brand, Eyre, Hurley moved to rookie list if needed

Think we need to add to
Quality Big Inside mid (Probs has to be through the draft)
Small forward
Running defenders

Happy to draft mids though and turn them into backs/fwds if they cant crack it in the middle

Bit like what West Coast do with guys like Cole, Duggan ect

 

[Zach Package]

Depth in this part is tearing it’s ugly head. You turn a Johnson into a Charlie Constable and we’re all frothing at the bit.

Cahil was brought in with exposure as a small fwd, plays VFL as a mid. Two most evident examples for mine.


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You said we don’t have like for like replacements, I would argue we’ve got basically every position covered at either end but literally nothing in the middle.

Outside the best 22 the depth/understudy picks would probably look something like

B: Hird Brand BZT
HB: Gleeson Reid Durham
C: Cutler
R: Phillips Clarke
HF: Guelfi Hurley Zaharakis
F: Cahill Ambrose Waterman
I: Bryan Johnson Mosquito McBride Baldwin Eyre

Notice how that structures up pretty normal with blends of sizes and shapes but I left the middle blank? Well that’s because I didn’t leave the middle blank, there’s just literally no one else. Pretty bloody dire if you ask me. Especially given the ones that can conceivably go through there are not much chop, close to the end or rotational at best.