Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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Midfield is an interesting thing at AFL clubs, especially at Essendon.

It operates more as a right of passage than any objective indicator of quality.

The annointed get opportunity. How do you get annointed? Sometimes it's draft profile and sometimes it's because you were there first. You get stats and then you are assumed to have the same impact of good players who share those stats. The football industry as a whole cannot see the forrest for these trees.

I recall a match this year in which we were as much as 12 goals down in the third quarter when the performance of our midfielders, with good stats, was being held in high regard.

Hell, I recall a match an All Australian played against West Coast in 2014 in which he missed a target with all but 2 or 3 of the 19 second half touches he had which got him votes for almost every award.

The simple reality is that, at least prior to Covid, the VFL was full of ball magnets who either got dumped from the system or who never got their chance but for who opportunity was the only thing to separate them from their counterparts they routine matched or defeated at the lower level.

I once said that Kobe Mutch was basically Dyson Heppell and was laughed at. I ask, when was the last time Heppell was clearly AFL standard? He has supposedly been in decline since 2014. What is more likely, that a player who was never good was overrated, as a media story, or that absent any issue with his body which would rob him or strength or mobility, he has inexplicably regressed for 8 years of his 11 year career?

It's not like we haven't seen Rising Star winners end up average. Palmer couldn't get a game as a senior player at GWS or even at a struggling Carlton. Lewis Taylor was supposed to be a good player.

Shane Woewodin is a brownlow medallist but I doubt anyone other than his mum regards him as a champion or even as A grade.

We make the same mistake with Parish as we have with Heppell, pretending he is elite. Merrett has been allowed to become a cheap stat merchant who plays with no impact on games despite the potential to kick the eyes out of it.

I doubt any midfield with these 2 can be balanced. At least Dusty, Fyfe, Danger, Bont, Petracca etc break the game apart.

If you gave Kavanagh, Mynott, O'Brien, Aylett, Clarke and Hibberd, to name a few, the absolute freedom we have afforded the likes or Parish, Heppell and Merrett, the absolute lack of defensive accountability, they would all get the ball 30+ times a game and would be considered good.

This is not to say that we should give those players the opportunity to be mediocre. That's a realisation I have come to, certainly about Kavanagh.

The only midfielder Essendon has had since Tim Watson who was genuinely and consistently A grade, who could take a game apart regardless of the attention of opponents, and who was good enough to be excused from defence, happens to be his son Jobe. I'm obviously excluding the likes of Hird and Mercuri because they were forwards as much as they were mids.

It's gets worse. We play a midfield with no physical presence and which can't run. It's staggering we could be is this position. It's actually unforgivable.

It would be a waste of Perkins' talents but he's the only guy we have, currently slated as a potential mid, who has the running power to operate defensively. The only other guy would be Voss and he is probably not considered a mid. That's leaving a lot to wingmen.

I might be wrong, but as long as we build our house on this foundation of sand I'm not sure I will ever have expectations.
 
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How long has it been since we've had a proper functioning forward line? I watched Parish yesterday streaming out of the middle and without any pressure on him at all kick it to no one in particular in the forward line. Is it the way the forwards are setting up, or the delivery, or a bit of both?

We used to joke about Davey being CHF because they'd always pop the ball on his head when kicking into the forward line, but there's an element of truth there that still hasn't changed.
 
How long has it been since we've had a proper functioning forward line? I watched Parish yesterday streaming out of the middle and without any pressure on him at all kick it to no one in particular in the forward line. Is it the way the forwards are setting up, or the delivery, or a bit of both?

We used to joke about Davey being CHF because they'd always pop the ball on his head when kicking into the forward line, but there's an element of truth there that still hasn't changed.

2017 was pretty good.

Then our AA CHF spent 2 years injured, took the piss when he came back, and got traded away.

Now we're rolling out a very inexperienced forward-line with mostly makeshift forwards.
 

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Midfield is an interesting thing at AFL clubs, especially at Essendon.

It operates more as a right of passage than any objective indicator of quality.

The annointed get opportunity. How do you get annointed? Sometimes it's draft profile and sometimes it's because you were there first. They get stats and then they are assumed to have the same impact of good players who share those stats. The football industry as a whole cannot see the forrest for these trees.

I recall a match this year in which we were as much as 12 goals down in the third quarter when the performance of our midfielders, with good stats, was being held in high regard.

Hell, I recall a match an All Australian played against West Coast in 2014 in which he missed a target with all but 2 or 3 of the 19 second half touches he had which got him votes for almost every award.

The simple reality is that, at least prior to Covid, the VFL was full of ball magnets who either got dumped from the system or who never got their chance but for who opportunity was the only thing to separate them from their counterparts they routine matched or defeated at the lower level.

I once said that Kobe Mutch was basically Dyson Heppell and was laughed at. I ask, when was the last time Heppell was clearly AFL standard? He has supposedly been in decline since 2014. What is more likely, that a player who was never good was overrated, as a media story, or that absent any issue with his body which would rob him or strength or mobility, he has inexplicably regressed for 8 years of his 11 year career?

It's not like we haven't seen Rising Star winners end up average. Palmer couldn't get a game as a senior player at GWS or even at a struggling Carlton. Lewis Taylor was supposed to be a good player.

Shane Woewodin is a brownlow medallist but I doubt anyone other than his mum regards him as a champion or even as A grade.

We make the same mistake with Parish as we have with Heppell, pretending he is elite. Merrett has been allowed to become a cheap stat merchant who plays with no impact on games despite the potential to kick the eyes out of it.

I doubt any midfield with these 2 can be balanced. At least Dusty, Fyfe, Danger, Bont, Petracca etc break the game apart.

If you gave Kavanagh, Mynott, O'Brien, Aylett, Clarke and Hibberd, to name a few, the absolute freedom we have afforded the likes or Parish, Heppell and Merrett, the absolute lack or defensive accountability, they would all get the ball 30+ times a game and would be considered good.

This is not to say that we should give those players the opportunity to be mediocre.

The only midfielder Essendon has had since Tim Watson who was genuinely and consistently A grade, who could take a game apart regardless of the attention of opponents, and who could be excused from defence, happens to be his son Jobe. I'm obviously excluding the likes of Hird and Mercuri because they were forwards as much as they were mids.

It's gets worse. We play a midfield with no physical presence and which can't run. It's staggering we could be is this position. It's actually unforgivable.

It would be a waste of Perkins' talents but he's the only guy we have, currently slated as a potential mid, who has the running power to operate defensively. The only other guy would be Voss and he is probably not considered a mid. That's leaving a lot to wingmen.

I might be wrong, but as long as we build our house on this foundation of sand I'm not sure I will ever have expectations.
a little unfair on Parish and Merrett, who I consider to be good (reigning AA's too).
But your last line is spot on. They are the house. Our foundations this year are sand.

With Shiel, Caldwell and McGrath out last year, and Stringer having what was an AA 2/3 of the year, it was a solid base to build on.
Add, you had Jones and Tippa in the forward line and Heppell was playing well as a HBF.

Take Stringer away and replace him with Shiel/Caldwell/McGrath and you change what worked. And all of a sudden, it doesn't. Those 3 don't equal what Stringer was able to do. And the good teams have those players. Most have 2. We have .5 when you consider Stringer can't play full games in the middle and we do need him forward.

Suppose two moves come off in the last 2 years
1) we get Dunkley at the expense of Hobbs & Cox
2) we get Brodie & Pick 19 instead of Freo

Draper Dunkley Brodie
Merrett Parish Shiel
w/Caldwell, Perkins, Martin, Durham, Pick 19 (Johnson, Knevitt, etc) as your support cast & Stringer still cameo'ing

Those 2 roles we need filled and we can't be jamming square pegs into round holes. Need specialists....and if it costs us a Shiel or McGrath (or both) to make it happen, we need to make it happen.
 
a little unfair on Parish and Merrett, who I consider to be good (reigning AA's too).
But your last line is spot on. They are the house. Our foundations this year are sand.

With Shiel, Caldwell and McGrath out last year, and Stringer having what was an AA 2/3 of the year, it was a solid base to build on.
Add, you had Jones and Tippa in the forward line and Heppell was playing well as a HBF.

Take Stringer away and replace him with Shiel/Caldwell/McGrath and you change what worked. And all of a sudden, it doesn't. Those 3 don't equal what Stringer was able to do. And the good teams have those players. Most have 2. We have .5 when you consider Stringer can't play full games in the middle and we do need him forward.

Suppose two moves come off in the last 2 years
1) we get Dunkley at the expense of Hobbs & Cox
2) we get Brodie & Pick 19 instead of Freo

Draper Dunkley Brodie
Merrett Parish Shiel
w/Caldwell, Perkins, Martin, Durham, Pick 19 (Johnson, Knevitt, etc) as your support cast & Stringer still cameo'ing

Those 2 roles we need filled and we can't be jamming square pegs into round holes. Need specialists....and if it costs us a Shiel or McGrath (or both) to make it happen, we need to make it happen.



Probably an unpopular opinion but this award really doesn't mean anything. It's like when people get up in arms when their player doesn't get nominated for the Rising Star. Is this just a thing with club's supporters who have done nothing of note for 20 years care about? Remember the whole Shuey vs Heppell and McGrath vs Burton pissing contests? Does anyone know what date they are unveiling the 'Dylan Clarke tagged Cripps out of the game' pennant from the rafters at the Hangar?
 
a little unfair on Parish and Merrett, who I consider to be good (reigning AA's too).
But your last line is spot on. They are the house. Our foundations this year are sand.

With Shiel, Caldwell and McGrath out last year, and Stringer having what was an AA 2/3 of the year, it was a solid base to build on.
Add, you had Jones and Tippa in the forward line and Heppell was playing well as a HBF.

Take Stringer away and replace him with Shiel/Caldwell/McGrath and you change what worked. And all of a sudden, it doesn't. Those 3 don't equal what Stringer was able to do. And the good teams have those players. Most have 2. We have .5 when you consider Stringer can't play full games in the middle and we do need him forward.

Suppose two moves come off in the last 2 years
1) we get Dunkley at the expense of Hobbs & Cox
2) we get Brodie & Pick 19 instead of Freo

Draper Dunkley Brodie
Merrett Parish Shiel
w/Caldwell, Perkins, Martin, Durham, Pick 19 (Johnson, Knevitt, etc) as your support cast & Stringer still cameo'ing

Those 2 roles we need filled and we can't be jamming square pegs into round holes. Need specialists....and if it costs us a Shiel or McGrath (or both) to make it happen, we need to make it happen.


The problem you end up facing with Brodie and Dunkly is that you add 2 more players who are not runners and who cant defend.

It sures up our ability to win contested ball and adds physicality but we're then giving minutes to guys who are still going to leak defensively.

That's the problem. You can't balance a midfield where 2 or the top 4 are unaccountable accumulators. You need both the big body and massive running power in the other 2 members of each rotation.

If you want to balance it, and maybe that is not necessary, you need 2 sets of Taranto/Hewett hybrids. Where does that fit with Hobbs, Perkins, Caldwell, McGrath?

Parish and Merrett are the foundation of sand.

Edit: the reason Dodoro needs to be dismissed from the Hanger, fired from cannon for ceremonial purposes, is because he already did this before, created a one dimensional midfield that couldn't be balanced.
 
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Probably an unpopular opinion but this award really doesn't mean anything. It's like when people get up in arms when their player doesn't get nominated for the Rising Star. Is this just a thing with club's supporters who have done nothing of note for 20 years care about? Remember the whole Shuey vs Heppell and McGrath vs Burton pissing contests? Does anyone know what date they are unveiling the 'Dylan Clarke tagged Cripps out of the game' pennant from the rafters at the Hangar?


It's purely partisan from a fan perspective.
 
Our forward line last year was decent.

1. Jones injured

2. Snelling injured

3. Tippa injured

4. Stringer injured / very underdone

5. We haven’t replaced Hooker. He played 18 games and kicked 33.24. You can’t just take that out of the forward line without an impact.

There’s your issues. 5 points that cover it all.
 
Probably an unpopular opinion but this award really doesn't mean anything. It's like when people get up in arms when their player doesn't get nominated for the Rising Star. Is this just a thing with club's supporters who have done nothing of note for 20 years care about? Remember the whole Shuey vs Heppell and McGrath vs Burton pissing contests? Does anyone know what date they are unveiling the 'Dylan Clarke tagged Cripps out of the game' pennant from the rafters at the Hangar?

AA speaks to the perceived value of a player, yes.

I'm not sure how the Dylan Clarke example is relevant to that.

If you're an AA midfielder, that would suggest the industry values you as one of the best midfielders in the game. Those midfielders aren't without flaws, but the list of midfielders better than Merett or Parish is a short one.
 
Our midfield doesn’t have a point of difference. That’s not a huge problem if we have a point of difference elsewhere ie a rock solid defence, or a stacked forward line. But we don’t. In fact our most highly paid players are our midfielders. It’s a list balance issue that is going to hamstring us moving forward
 
AA speaks to the perceived value of a player, yes.

I'm not sure how the Dylan Clarke example is relevant to that.

If you're an AA midfielder, that would suggest the industry values you as one of the best midfielders in the game. Those midfielders aren't without flaws, but the list of midfielders better than Merett or Parish is a short one.


It's true.

But you're also just selecting the GWS midfield every year. The closest it got was 10 goals in a losing GF which relied on a fairly significant choke in by the Pies in a prelim. It was also overwhelmed and outworked by the Dogs of 2016 in a prelim.

The Dogs last year are another example of talent being destroyed by system.

And the Dogs and GWS have the foundation we do not.

Almost everything the industry values has nothing to do with winning big finals. Tom Stewart and most intercept defenders for another example.
 
AA speaks to the perceived value of a player, yes.

I'm not sure how the Dylan Clarke example is relevant to that.

If you're an AA midfielder, that would suggest the industry values you as one of the best midfielders in the game. Those midfielders aren't without flaws, but the list of midfielders better than Merett or Parish is a short one.


Fans who are starved of success will literally celebrate anything.


Club just rang me for a $39.95 add on to get a DVD box set of Mark Bolton curbing Adam Goodes' influence.
 
It's true.

But you're also just selecting the GWS midfield every year. The closest it got was 10 goals in a losing GF which relied on a fairly significant choke in by the Pies in a prelim. It was also overwhelmed and outworked by the Dogs of 2016 in a prelim.

The Dogs last year are another example of talent being destroyed by system.

And the Dogs and GWS have the foundation we do not.

Almost everything the industry values has nothing to do with winning big finals. Tom Stewart and most intercept defenders for another example.

GWS has a midfield of great individual players, at times close to the best group in the league, but has never been well coached to maximise results IMO, and have suffered from injuries at inopportune times.

They'd have won the 2016 GF if they got there IMO, and Clarkson coaching them would have delivered at least 1 Premiership if not multiple.

Ward, Coniglio, Kelly, Hopper, Taranto, with Whitfield, Scully, Shiel, Wilson and Williams on the wings / flanks all played in the 2017 Prelim loss to Richmond for example.

Any coach would have killed for that list of midfielders to work with.
 

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GWS has a midfield of great individual players, at times close to the best group in the league, but has never been well coached to maximise results IMO, and have suffered from injuries at inopportune times.

They'd have won the 2016 GF if they got there IMO, and Clarkson coaching them would have delivered at least 1 Premiership if not multiple.

Ward, Coniglio, Kelly, Hopper, Taranto, with Whitfield, Scully, Shiel, Wilson and Williams on the wings / flanks all played in the 2017 Prelim loss to Richmond for example.

Any coach would have killed for that list of midfielders to work with.


No doubt. It's an assumption I'd make too.

I would love to see it as terrifying as that reality might be.

What would he do with a midfield that can dominate? Could he get all those guys to buy in to defence? Would we be wondering why crazy Clarko wont play Hopper and Cognilio? Would he get seduced by the talent and shift his focus on defence?

Does he know deep down he needs his team and do a bit of a Malcolm Blight and clear a few players out just to create space for what he needs.

I dont think it would necessarily look the way we think it would. Though I want to believe he gets buy in and GWS don't lost a game for 4 years.
 
The problem with our midfield is that we have some nice pieces but none of them fit together. Our four main midfielders - Merrett, Parish, Shiel and McGrath - are all basically the same person. They do the same things well and the same things poorly. Their skill sets don't complement each other.

Each player has value - and is a good player in isolation - but they'd be more valuable to another team than to Essendon. None of them are good enough to be the first or even second best midfielder in a premiership team.

But since Essendon list management is more about hoarding talent rather than creating a strong list of talent that complements one another we won't do anything about that. Instead, we'll stick with a midfield rotation of Merrett and Parish furiously handballing the ball between themselves - generating huge stats but providing no defensive pressure or genuine hurt - until it's time for them to move on and we rebuild again.
 
If you're an AA midfielder, that would suggest the industry values you as one of the best midfielders in the game.
Sure, if you define "the industry" as "Gillon McLachlan (chairman), Kevin Bartlett, Jude Bolton, Nathan Buckley, Kane Cornes, Andrew Dillon, Glen Jakovich, Chris Johnson, Cameron Ling, Nick Riewoldt and Brad Scott."

It's not like this is the AFLCA medal.
 
Sure, if you define "the industry" as "Gillon McLachlan (chairman), Kevin Bartlett, Jude Bolton, Nathan Buckley, Kane Cornes, Andrew Dillon, Glen Jakovich, Chris Johnson, Cameron Ling, Nick Riewoldt and Brad Scott."

It's not like this is the AFLCA medal.


The weird thing about the coaches is that they either troll the ALFCA award or they're in on it.

They routinely give 7 to 10 votes to players who run riot on the stat sheet, because they're not paid any attention, not tagged, etc.

I don't know what it says but I can't reconcile the 2 positions.
 
ok my Coaches hat on (this is just my opinion)

IMO our best forward line would be Tippa, Wright, Stringer, Martin, Jones, Perkins - not possible presently

You need two talls, one/two mediums and two smalls but who are agile, good at ground level and can tackle and put pressure on to lock the ball I50

Melbourne show how it's done: Brown and McDonald/Weideman, Fritsch (who plays tall), Pickett/Spargo/Neale-Bullen/Sparrow

If Cox isn't tried at CHF (i think he and Reid should be KPD and nowhere near the forward line) until Jones comes back try something different

Like bring back the U shaped forward line of 1993 reworked (6-6-6 has no formation restriction)

Bryan/Draper in the Goal square DOES NOT MOVE

2MP 25 metres out in front - runs forward
Stringer and the Guelf RHS of the forward line - Jake can lead wherever he wants - Guelf to pay attention to crumb for every player

Martin and Perkins LHS of the forward line - whomever has the mismatch plays deeper (sort it out themselves) - both of them have to be front and square for every player

If it was soccer it would look like:

1651463061745.png

GK is Bryan/Draper
CD is 2MP - he leads up the ground
LD is Martin/Perkins (whomever has a mismatch) - can go up the ground upon centre bounce but must be able to crumb and rove both talls
RD is Stringer he can go wherever he like and can use the space behind the CD (2MP) to lead into if Wright leads up the ground
CMx2 are The Guelf and either Perkins/Martin - can go up the ground upon centre bounce but must be able to crumb and rove both talls
 
A 195cm/94kg midfielder debuted for West Coast on the weekend. Captained his state at underage level before forging a reputation an an elite two way mid in the WAFL over the next few years. There’s not a single doubt in my mind if we picked him up he’d be our most important midfielder right now. He is the antithesis of our current midfield group. Instead we pick a 25 year old back flank not even ready for AFL football. That’s an idea of the value this recruiting department puts on building a proper midfield.
 
A 195cm/94kg midfielder debuted for West Coast on the weekend. Captained his state at underage level before forging a reputation an an elite two way mid in the WAFL over the next few years. There’s not a single doubt in my mind if we picked him up he’d be our most important midfielder right now. He is the antithesis of our current midfield group. Instead we pick a 25 year old back flank not even ready for AFL football. That’s an idea of the value this recruiting department puts on building a proper midfield.
Nuh man, taking punts on flankers we could turn into midfielders is our speciality. It's funny, even after the amount of flankers we have tried, none have actually ever succeeded.
 
Nuh man, taking punts on flankers we could turn into midfielders is our speciality. It's funny, even after the amount of flankers we have tried, none have actually ever succeeded.

It just blows my mind that guys like Clark and Long are available that late in the draft and we seemingly look the other way. For the draft pick + salary required there’s literally no better investment in the future to make. A 195/94 mature ager and a 194/92 youngster, both of which have top end running and best attributes are their defensive actions. We could’ve split our McDonagh pick for two in the 50’s and got both.

We have two midfielders that were All-Australians way back in 2021. Whether this distinction means anything is debatable, but at the very least you can safely say we had two of the better midfielders in the competition last year. This all leads to my main question, of which I cannot figure out for the life of me. Why aren’t we building a midfield to complement these guys? The only other clubs to have multiple mids in the AA team were last years grand finalists. This supposed position of strength has turned into an undeniable weakness for us as we have 5 physically identical players running through there. Not one of them can break a tackle. Not one of them is an elite runner. Not one of them is a threat aerially. Not one of them bases their performance on defensive metrics. Not one of them regularly hits the scoreboard. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch because I feel like with a couple of tweaks we could be such a good side, however I have no confidence in this ever happening.
 
The weird thing about the coaches is that they either troll the ALFCA award or they're in on it.

They routinely give 7 to 10 votes to players who run riot on the stat sheet, because they're not paid any attention, not tagged, etc.

I don't know what it says but I can't reconcile the 2 positions.
Maybe the coaches know that they only let the best players on their list run around racking up possessions.

Your point that anyone can do it, it's just a consequence of being a midfielder just doesn't quite sit with me. Yes, that imaginary midfield of Mynott, Mutch, Kavanagh, Clarke, Hibberd would probably still get the footy a bit.. because someone has to have it. But it's a fantasy that it's a good midfield.

Hibberd got half a dozen goes.. yes he wasn't playing on ball much, but fumbled like crazy and looked well off the pace. Was that going to be magically fixed by starting in the centre square? Clarke can't kick, at all.

They would be midfielders if they played there yes, but not good ones. Not even as good as the mess we have now.
 
I think we can all agree that the current 4 cannot play in the same midfield (Merrett, McGrath, Shiel, Parish)


Which one of these guys sacrifices there game and re invents themselves as a wingman, thinking like Brayshaw (Melbourne) has done to help get a guy like Petracca more midfield minutes?
 
I think we can all agree that the current 4 cannot play in the same midfield (Merrett, McGrath, Shiel, Parish)


Which one of these guys sacrifices there game and re invents themselves as a wingman, thinking like Brayshaw (Melbourne) has done to help get a guy like Petracca more midfield minutes?
The way it currently seems to be supposed to work, Shiel rotates with Caldwell (forward), Merrett rotates with McGrath (half-back), and Parish rotates with Stringer (CBAs only). Injuries mean the ideal doesn't always translate to reality, but that seems to be the ideal.

I actually think we're just straight up missing two midfielders from our list. Without delisting or replacing anyone that's already on the list, but just add two more midfielders to it. There isn't enough midfield depth in the first place, and two more mids if chosen carefully should also help with the balance of the midfield as it currently stands.
 
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