The Cyril Rioli Myth = The Harley Bennell Reality?

[E Shed]

S Hill from Freo is a good example.. burst onto the scene and looked a million bucks then was tagged and struggled to gather 14-15 touches a game as a mid.

Put Bennell up against C Enright, M Doughty, A Selwood types with real defensive focus and see how he goes..

Having said that love watching Bennell runs like a gazelle!!

Yes good point. A lot of first year players look good till they start hurting the opposition consistently and the clamps go on.
To Hill's credit, he's very fit this year and starting to work really hard both ways again. Has been in our best most weeks are possession numbers are heading northward again. Burnt off Jones against the Saints and put some hurt on in the second half. This is the real test when they have to work their way through it. Bennell will start copping serious attention after that effort.

 

[seysearles]

Do you wanna know the most idiotic thing about it all? All the hate is sooooooooooo misplaced. It actually has nothing whatsoever to do with Rioli. The offended is entirely the fault of commentators like Bruce McAvaney

All of these PEANUTS who whinge about Rioli, Franklin, Judd, Thomas, Riewoldt, Hurley, Cotchin (or any other star who makes watching AFL footy interesting) are really just annoyed at the way the football media pumps up the stars. That's their real beef. They just don't know it.

They can't understand why the game's best players get so much "undeserved praise". They hear Bruce McAvaney's excited jizzfest when Cyril Rioli works another "delicious" miracle. They hear the ex-footballers in the commentary booth laugh out loud in amazement at what they just saw.

These nay-sayers who sit at home alone and whine at their televisions are simply reacting negatively to the excitement generated in the commentary booth by the game's best players.

Pitiful!

Is there anything more worthless as a thread topic?

Good response. And very accurate.

 

[muston09]

This thread really needs to be given a lighten up.
So for laughs I've quoted this beauty from a few pages back.

lol

what has that got to do with, oh wait, i get it! its not about bennell or rioli, its about geelong hating hawthorn, ok

 

[The House]

Rioli 2011 brownlow votes: 7
Betts, Garlett and Yarran combined: 5



EDIT: Rioli total career brownlow votes: 17 in 89 games
Betts, Garlett and Yarran combined: 14 in 257 games

So Rioli polls an average of 4.25 Browlow votes a year, and you're using that as a measuring stick??

I'm pretty sure 4.25 votes a year 'aint great - in fact many players would have had that covered by round 2.



I think the theme of the OP has been a little lost - correct me if i'm wrong but the point is largely that Rioli gets far more kudos from the footy world compared to what he actually delivers.

Yes, I'm sure we all agree that his best is remarkably good....I doubt there's even a single person arguing against that.

But the irregularity of which we see his best compared to how much we hear about it is the key.

Clarkson has challenged him publically for two years in a row to get fit enough and good enough to play primarily as a mid - but the reality is that when he does play mid he doesn't have the discipline or the tank to work hard enough, especially defensively.....his opponent often gets plenty of it, and Rioli runs so far forward that his man is usually the key link man when there's a turn over...

....in short, when Cyril plays in the middle, it often hurts the Hawks so Clarkson rarely does it (despite clearly wanting to).

A small forward who's best effort in 4 years is to kick 29 goals (and who didn't even reach 25 goals 2 of the 4 years he's played) should not be mentioned amonsts the better players in the comp.....the fact that he can produce so much at his best demonstrates how little he is producing for many other weeks of a typical season.

Again I reiterate, I love watching him at his best as much as anyone....his best is great....but that's not really the point, is it?

 

[The House]

Do you wanna know the most idiotic thing about it all? All the hate is sooooooooooo misplaced. It actually has nothing whatsoever to do with Rioli. The offended is entirely the fault of commentators like Bruce McAvaney

All of these PEANUTS who whinge about Rioli, Franklin, Judd, Thomas, Riewoldt, Hurley, Cotchin (or any other star who makes watching AFL footy interesting) are really just annoyed at the way the football media pumps up the stars. That's their real beef. They just don't know it.

They can't understand why the game's best players get so much "undeserved praise". They hear Bruce McAvaney's excited jizzfest when Cyril Rioli works another "delicious" miracle. They hear the ex-footballers in the commentary booth laugh out loud in amazement at what they just saw.

These nay-sayers who sit at home alone and whine at their televisions are simply reacting negatively to the excitement generated in the commentary booth by the game's best players.

Pitiful!

Is there anything more worthless as a thread topic?

I think you're close, but just missing the point.

The point is that re your bolded, many people find it amaizing that so many in the footy world (media, players, coaches and supporters) so casually put Cyril's name amongst the game's best.

His best suggests....or actually screams, that he COULD be amongst the game's best - but so far what he's delivered is a long way away from deserving to be known as one of the game's best players imo.

 

[pantskyle]

Is the "Harley Bennell Reality" based on one brilliant game?
Is the "Cyril Rioli Myth" based on not being brilliant every game?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is the "Harley Bennell Reality" based on one brilliant game?
Is the "Cyril Rioli Myth" based on not being brilliant every game?

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the "myth" is myself.

From another board.

A lot of opposition supporters claim this(inconsistency, and hasn't played well since the GF of 2008), but it's simply not true. Maybe more of you could pay attention, rather than jumping in, mouth wide open.

Missed 6 games in 2011 and still came 7th in the B&F.

In 2010, missed 3 games and finished 4th.

In 2009, was runners up in the B&F.

In 2008, his debut year, as an 18yr old in a Premiership side, he came 6th.

Oh but of course, he's flashy, and inconsistant.

 

[pantskyle]

Makes no sense to me. I can't see how a small forward will ever be great every game.

It Cyril can get 15 touches and 1-2 goals a game then he has done his job.

 

[Cynic]

Other than commentators and once being in Mike Sheean's Top 50 players does Rioli really get that much media praise? :/

 

[Prudster]

So Rioli polls an average of 4.25 Browlow votes a year, and you're using that as a measuring stick??

I'm pretty sure 4.25 votes a year 'aint great - in fact many players would have had that covered by round 2.

Combine that with his comparative BnF results and compare it to Betts and Garlett, who are two of the better small forward in the comp. He stacks up as one of the better small forwards in the competition. Cyril himself could well be on 6 brownlow votes already. That's already more than Betts, Garlett and Yarran's 2011 combined. Is there a single small forward in the game who is consistent? The position is not known for it. Cyril cops it, yet Betts, Garlett, Milne, etc. are all terrible when they have their off days. I can't remember Cyril putting in a performance where he contributed absolutely nothing to the team. That can't be said about all small forwards.

I think the theme of the OP has been a little lost - correct me if i'm wrong but the point is largely that Rioli gets far more kudos from the footy world compared to what he actually delivers.

Yes, I'm sure we all agree that his best is remarkably good....I doubt there's even a single person arguing against that.

But the irregularity of which we see his best compared to how much we hear about it is the key.

Clarkson has challenged him publically for two years in a row to get fit enough and good enough to play primarily as a mid - but the reality is that when he does play mid he doesn't have the discipline or the tank to work hard enough, especially defensively.....his opponent often gets plenty of it, and Rioli runs so far forward that his man is usually the key link man when there's a turn over...

....in short, when Cyril plays in the middle, it often hurts the Hawks so Clarkson rarely does it (despite clearly wanting to).

A small forward who's best effort in 4 years is to kick 29 goals (and who didn't even reach 25 goals 2 of the 4 years he's played) should not be mentioned amonsts the better players in the comp.....the fact that he can produce so much at his best demonstrates how little he is producing for many other weeks of a typical season.

Again I reiterate, I love watching him at his best as much as anyone....his best is great....but that's not really the point, is it?

How many players can win a game off their own boot in 5 minutes? How many can have so much impact with so few touches. The reason people (aka commentators) get so excited when he gets the ball, is because of the chance that something magical is about to happen. It doesn't make him a better player than Sam Mitchell. Nobody is saying he is better than some of these consistent, top line players. But people don't pay money to go see Mitchell have 30 touches. They go to see somebody like Cyril, or Bennell, or Stevie J do something amazing.

For the record, the consistent, top line midfielders do get their kudos. These are the guys who win the brownlow, and all the media awards. The flashy, but generally inconsistent guys, are the ones who do the wowing.

 

[The House]

Combine that with his comparative BnF results and compare it to Betts and Garlett, who are two of the better small forward in the comp. He stacks up as one of the better small forwards in the competition. Cyril himself could well be on 6 brownlow votes already. That's already more than Betts, Garlett and Yarran's 2011 combined. Is there a single small forward in the game who is consistent? The position is not known for it. Cyril cops it, yet Betts, Garlett, Milne, etc. are all terrible when they have their off days. I can't remember Cyril putting in a performance where he contributed absolutely nothing to the team. That can't be said about all small forwards.




How many players can win a game off their own boot in 5 minutes? How many can have so much impact with so few touches. The reason people (aka commentators) get so excited when he gets the ball, is because of the chance that something magical is about to happen. It doesn't make him a better player than Sam Mitchell. Nobody is saying he is better than some of these consistent, top line players. But people don't pay money to go see Mitchell have 30 touches. They go to see somebody like Cyril, or Bennell, or Stevie J do something amazing.

For the record, the consistent, top line midfielders do get their kudos. These are the guys who win the brownlow, and all the media awards. The flashy, but generally inconsistent guys, are the ones who do the wowing.

For what it's worth, i agree with most of what you're saying....yes he can win a game off his own boot, primarily because his best is outstanding....

....and yes the top mids do get their kudos...but i believe in terms of reputation Cyril often gets similar kudos/respect/reputation....and that's what i think is drawing a long bow (not on your part neccessarily, more the overall perception that Cyril is a star etc).

Again i agree when you say Cyril is one of the better small forwards - Milne, Rioli, Betts, Garlett, Ballantyne etc - in no particular order and in their own unique way, I'd say they all deliver similar outputs in terms of how valuable they are to their side over the course of a season.

Rioli's best is better than any of them, but what he actually delivers is similar.

I would say what any of them deliver over the course of a season is very good, but i definitely would not say that any of them are stars, or that what they deliver is amongst "the game's best players".

 

[Roby]

Do you wanna know the most idiotic thing about it all? All the hate is sooooooooooo misplaced. It actually has nothing whatsoever to do with Rioli. The offended is entirely the fault of commentators like Bruce McAvaney

All of these PEANUTS who whinge about Rioli, Franklin, Judd, Thomas, Riewoldt, Hurley, Cotchin (or any other star who makes watching AFL footy interesting) are really just annoyed at the way the football media pumps up the stars. That's their real beef. They just don't know it.

They can't understand why the game's best players get so much "undeserved praise". They hear Bruce McAvaney's excited jizzfest when Cyril Rioli works another "delicious" miracle. They hear the ex-footballers in the commentary booth laugh out loud in amazement at what they just saw.

These nay-sayers who sit at home alone and whine at their televisions are simply reacting negatively to the excitement generated in the commentary booth by the game's best players.

Pitiful!

Is there anything more worthless as a thread topic?

Commentators are human beings and have favourite players, deal with it.



As far Bennell goes, the term "class" or "classy" gets bandied around a lot but Bennell epitomises the definition of class.

 

[Furuncle]

Commentators are human beings and have favourite players, deal with it.

Yes, that was my point.

You've summarised my thoughts entirely.

Other than commentators and once being in Mike Sheean's Top 50 players does Rioli really get that much media praise? :/

It's just jealousy. Nothing more, nothing less.

The extraordinary offended over Chris Judd dwarfs anything Hawthorn fans have to put up with in regard to Cyril Rioli. For years I've seen people knocking Judd and getting their panties in a twist over the Juddy love from the media. Especially Hawthorn fans. People just invent all sorts of bullshit reasons why he's no good, when the reality smacking you right in the face is that he is one of the all-time greats.

Rioli is nowhere near Judd's level in terms of overall impact, but when he's fit, he is still comfortably inside the best 22 players in the game. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

 

[Pies12]

Cyrils a good footballer, with flashes of brilliance.
Nothing more

Bennell is just a jet, consistency seems so far this year his biggest improvement

 

[Off The Couch]

Cyrils a good footballer, with flashes of brilliance.
Nothing more

Bennell is just a jet, consistency seems so far this year his biggest improvement

What is it exactly that makes Bennell a jet in comparison with Rioli. It's easy to put the statement out there but at least back your opinion up with a bit of substance.

For the record, I think Bennell now that he appears to have had a change of attitude, will develop into a good player but to say he has already surpassed Cyril is laughable - lets revisit this thread in a couple of years and then you can all gloat at us ridiculous hawk posters.

 

[exile]

Is the "Harley Bennell Reality" based on one brilliant game?
Is the "Cyril Rioli Myth" based on not being brilliant every game?

hi, watched any gold coast games this year?

 

[Furuncle]

The funniest thing about the idiots in this thread is how they whine about Rioli hype and say he is overrated, but they're all guilty of hyping up a teenage gun who has played one great game.

Talk about "pot calling the kettle black".... Maybe next week someone will start a thread about how the Bennel Myth = Coniglio Reality

You just gotta shake your head and laugh at the level of intelligence of some people here on Big footy

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Cyrils a good footballer, with flashes of brilliance.
Nothing more

Bennell is just a jet, consistency seems so far this year his biggest improvement

The most disappointing thing about the hype that commentators like McAvaney have created is that people like the above genuinely believe that Rioli is 'just a good player', while others are "jets" or "guns".

Perhaps people just see what they want to see, but in the meantime they are underselling just how brilliant a player Rioli is.

 

[Sunny_]

Plenty of highlights from Harley in his 2012 season. Managed to catch a few and put them on YouTube.

He finished with the 2012 season averaging 23 touches, 2 tackles and a goal a game. Also pulled in 6 brownlow votes. His games were against Freo (37D and 3 goals) and Melbourne (38D and 4 goals).



How do people think Harley will go in 2013?

 

[Hens Hall]

How do people think Harley will go in 2013?

Depends on what sentence he receives?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Harley Bennell is the player everyone's expecting Cyril to be.

If only Cyril got more touches...if only he got involved in games more..

The Rioli myth is that he doesn't get involved in games more.

 

[Partridge]

The most disappointing thing about the hype that commentators like McAvaney have created is that people like the above genuinely believe that Rioli is 'just a good player', while others are "jets" or "guns".

Perhaps people just see what they want to see, but in the meantime they are underselling just how brilliant a player Rioli is.

Bennell's got a long way to go before he deserves any kind of hype or adulation. He's a promising young player, nothing more. Rioli is better right now, but is absolutely overrated. He's not alone though.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Bennell's got a long way to go before he deserves any kind of hype or adulation. He's a promising young player, nothing more. Rioli is better right now, but is absolutely overrated. He's not alone though.

Probably one of the most underrated players in the league actually. The only overrating is done by people like MacAvaney and that's not even a rating, it's just patronizing commentary.

 

[Jade's]

Probably one of the most underrated players in the league actually. The only overrating is done by people like MacAvaney and that's not even a rating, it's just patronizing commentary.

In what capacity is he underrated/

 

[Jaeger]

In what capacity is he underrated/

This thread is a perfect example of how criminally underrated Rioli is.