The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state our game is in

[NoobPie]

Compared to sides from 20 years ago, only a handful of these players are talented. They’re all fitter and better runners though.

Good lord.

 

[Mootsy]

the cats need something fresh, something new,
something borrowed and something blue.

 

[Duskfire]

Compared to sides from 20 years ago, only a handful of these players are talented. They’re all fitter and better runners though.

There were plenty of shit players back then, no one remembers them. I agree that players are fitter and better runners but that’s because training has gotten so much better. It’s not necessarily in exclusion of talent.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Some good points raised by both sides of this debate.

Personally I hope Menzel gets a gig elsewhere. Would love to see him seal a winner in a final against Geelong in 2019.

The same way Robin Nahas helped sink the Tigers a few years ago. Good times.

 

[Underarm]

Compared to sides from 20 years ago, only a handful of these players are talented. They’re all fitter and better runners though.

If the Geelong of the late 80's and 90's were better athletes maybe they would be premiership players like Jason Castagna. Food for thought...

 

[QuietB]

How does a guy who averages over 2 goals per game get delisted? That would be a first.

It is either Gary, Hawkins or Menzel.

Getting Ablett back was not a good idea for Geelong.

 

[DrEvil_]

The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state Geelong is in

please correct title

 

[Chinacats]

Certainly a crafty, clever player yet he does get cheap goals and no defensive pressure. Cats forward line hasn’t worked for years, hence they’re going in a different direction. Will it be better next year? Not looking likely in my opinion. Need Cocky to be fit!

 

[BruceTempany14]

Bit harsh on the Richmond forwards in the OP.
Riewoldt - AA and Coleman.
Caddy - averaged as many goals as Menzel and did the hard stuff.
Rioli - limited pre-season, one goal and four tackles per game.
Higgins - first year player.
Castagna - similar averages to Rioli.
Butler - see Rioli, Castagna.
Martin - 1.5 goals per game from far less forward minutes than Menzel.

Their talent is sacrificed for the team and lies in how they work together

Let the supporters of the sinking ship that is Geelong espouse their crapola theories . Seriously, try listening to the same drivel put forward by Gerard Whatley. Bitter , nasty people .


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[The Casey Cat]

Is talented but limited. Is true that the way Geelong play doesn't help and there have been plenty of other selfish one way players at Geelong the last few years who remain.

Think one of the main issues is he wants two years. Geelong told him to explore other options to get it via trade. Obviously no one was interested. If not drafted by anyone we will get him again with a late/rookie pick. He will be playing AFL next year.

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[schnoods]

Reminds me alot of Chapman having to move on.

Even Steve Johnson, one of the smartest fowards in the modern era and was forced to play midfield only to be discarded.

Would have thought he was higher in the pecking order, above cockatoo etc..

 

[Aeglos]

Compared to sides from 20 years ago, only a handful of these players are talented. They’re all fitter and better runners though.

20 years ago Aaron Keating played in a premiership.

 

[treefingers]

So which bigfooty poster is Niall?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...-against-talented-menzel-20181025-p50c0o.html

 

[Scotland]

Reminds me alot of Chapman having to move on.

Even Steve Johnson, one of the smartest fowards in the modern era and was forced to play midfield only to be discarded.

Would have thought he was higher in the pecking order, above cockatoo etc..

Chapman and Johnson were both 32, though. When you've got a bunch of players all late 20s/early 30s at once you need to make some hard calls along the way.

Menzel is only 27. He's conceivably got 5 or 6 years left at AFL (or other) level. He's the same age as Scully, Pittard and Hannebery, and a year younger than Dayne Beams and Aaron Hall. All those players moved clubs this trade period for varying prices.

His axing is due to injury history, deficiencies in his game or both.

 

[Seeds]

Luke Lowden says hi, career average of 3 goals a game

He played 1 game. What a stupid statement.

 

[John Who]

In a different reality, Daniel Menzel would be one of the biggest stars of the competition.

Firstly, I am surprised that Geelong held onto Menzel as long as we had. I was someone who thought that maybe we should have delisted Menzel, Vardy, McCarthy and Cowan. It may seem harsh, but for three years, we had four spots on our list with players who didn't play one game. I felt that we should have delisted them after the third season that they were unavailable, and used the spot to draft four youngsters, hopefully more durable, who would be playing in their sixth or seventh season by now, and would have strengthened our team. Cowan and McCarthy especially were clogging our list, and didn't get games even when they weren't injured.

Secondly, my understanding is that Menzel may want to leave Geelong as well. I believe that the main reason, rather than his lack of tackling, is that he wants a two-year contract at least. Geelong are only prepared to give him one year at the most.

I can see both sides. Menzel wants security and to be rewarded for his form by getting a longer contract. It would be a show of faith in him by the club.

However, I can see Geelong's point of view as well. If Menzel does another knee, he is finished in the game. There is no coming back. Geelong don't want to sign Menzel for two years, he do a knee in Round 1 next year, and then that money is tied up in the salary cap for two seasons. Geelong have been prepared to carry him for one season, and even if he goes down again, the club can carry his salary for the rest of the season. But two or more seasons is a big risk for a guy with four knee reconstructions.

Also, notice how no other club tried to trade for him in trade period. That is because he is a risk, and no club wants to give two years to a guy who might go down again.

I wouldn't be surprised, if there are no other takers for Menzel in the draft, then we might re-list him. He will be playing for a club next year, but no club wants to give up picks for someone who is injury-prone, whereas, as a DFA or in the draft, it is a free hit, and a risk worth taking.

Things were hampered by him missing weeks this year, because of the infection. If the club are going to delist Menzel, they should also let go the incompetent medic who injected Menzel in the wrong area. Someone like that is dangerous, and who knows what other medical stuff-ups they could do, and Menzel could have had a worse reaction to the needle.

Maybe Menzel is sick of the imcompetence of our medical staff. Firstly, after his first knee reconstruction, they wanted him to get LARS, and then he did his knee in first quarter back, when he came back to early IMO. He then missed the next eighteen months, and I feel that it increased his chance of getting the third and fourth ACLs.

Our medical team has done him no favours, and maybe at another club, he might get proper treatment which will let him play regularly, to the point where he gets a two year contract. But while we persist with such dolts running our medical team, our players will continue to spend a lot of time getting injury recurrences, and I hold our medical and conditioning staff majorly responsible for our horror injury run and our performance this year. We need to put the broom through it.

Yes, Daniel Menzel is talented, and if he had not had knee problems, he would have been a superstar, and we wouldn't have delisted him. He would have got more than two years, and would be happy. But fate has dealt him a cruel hand, and like Alex Johnson at Sydney, we will never see how good he could have been.

Thanks for the very insightful post! I can imagine his recurrent injuries has really hampered his ability to do the necessary chasing/tackling over the years. A lot of people don’t really understand that tackling is dependent on speed and core strength, which no doubt is affected in the case of D. Menzel with the injuries.

Regarding your mention of the “incompetent” medical staff, another possibility is that Menzel himself may have a genetic weakness with his knees making him prone to these sorts of injuries. Not everyone is born to cope with the rigours of a full season of AFL, despite all their talents. Think along the lines of many other AFL potential stars with recurring injuries who has had to make a premature retirement.

 

[romeohwho]

73 games in 9 years probably tells anyone sensible that Geelong supported Menzel for a long time for, unfortunately, insufficient return.
Would have been a wonderful footballer if hadn’t been so injured. Best of luck to him.

 

[GroggSquad]

I think you and many others are underestimating him and the value of players that can consistently kick goals.

Before the Geelong medical team made their rather large stuff up this year, Menzel had:

15 touches, 4.2 and a goal assist in a 3 point win in Round 1. (was Geelong's best forward IMO)
17 touches, 4.1 and 3 goal assists in Round 2. (was Geelong's best forward IMO)
8 touches and a goal against eventual premiers in Round 3
16 touches, 5 goals 3 and 3 Brownlow votes in Round 4 (Geelong's best forward IMO)
13 touches, 1 goal and 2 assists in Round 5.

At that point of the season, Menzel was 2nd in Geelong's B&F (ahead of all fwds and all mids), top 3 in the Coleman (maybe leading, can't remember?) and mentioned in every side posted in the AA thread on Bigfooty.

People (including you) say "only a couple of goals a game" not realising how few players manage that. In fact, half the teams in the competition don't have a single player on their list that averaged as many goals as Menzel did in 2018 (and Menzel was a top 20 goalkicker in the comp in 2017 despite missing games).
Even his assists are comparable to other forwards.

Not saying he is a superstar but surely with 42 spots on a list and the fact that he is best 22 whenever fit (and Geelong have just traded for an inferior player) he could have been kept on (particularly in place of guys who look like they may never play a game).

Just my 2c

Great post, you have summed up the situation perfectly.

It is basically unfathomable that Geelong wouldn’t keep Menzel on their 42-man list with a minimum wage 1 year deal if that option was available to them. Like you say, he offers more than players ~35-42 who are unlikely to ever play an AFL game.

He must have a better offer lined up elsewhere and has given the Cats his blessing to let him go, surely...

 

[Crankyhawk]

People who are bagging the sacking of Menzel weren't crying when we traded out Travis Varcoe.

Many here wanted Varcoe gone from Geelong, called him a spud, and blamed him for us missing the 2013 GF, and seemed to forget his efforts in the 2011 GF, and his pivotal role of handballing to Chapman for THAT goal in the 2009 GF.

Varcoe was a tackling machine, and put forward pressure on, and he has carried that, and even improved, at Collingwood.

Where were many of you crying then, when we traded out a tackling machine who kicked goals AND put on forward pressure, but now you all moan about getting rid of a guy with dodgy knees and who doesn't apply forward pressure.

Just a theory maybe then bigfooty assumed Geelong knew what they were doing, then after seeing Varcoe improve are now going wtf? Making a similar mistake.

But to the main question perhaps the needle and infection has led to permanent damage.

 

[Freshwater]

I hope we pick him up. We need some X factor. They can’t be all dour pressure lock down types.

 

[Roobs321]

If you can't apply defensive pressure, you are not a forward.

 

[QuietB]

If you can't apply defensive pressure, you are not a forward.

You still can, but there are only so many you can carry. And you certainly cannot carry 3 like Geelong try too

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Menzel should slot in easily at a number of clubs. In fact positionally speaking the best place for him should be Geelong. God knows they need players that can kick a goal.

As others have said hes a direct victim of Seagull Ablett returning to Kardinia Park.

Off the top of my head I would have thought North or the Dogs or possibly Demons would be the best fits as regards Melbourne based clubs. Hed also be a great get at a lot of the interstate teams.

 

[tigertigertiger]

The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state Geelong is in

please correct title

This

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[Scotland]

73 games in 9 years probably tells anyone sensible that Geelong supported Menzel for a long time for, unfortunately, insufficient return.
Would have been a wonderful footballer if hadn’t been so injured. Best of luck to him.

You just recruited Gary Rohan who has played 106 in 9 and played at least one in all of them. He also played fewer games than Menzel this year.