Opinion The greatest trade in history?

[SM]

There is a few people

Unless your are apart of the board , which your not how do u no this will cripple us , your going over top a little mate

See my reply after yours.

 

[Punts]

So let's go over 2009:

OUT: Hall, O'Loughlin, Barry, Crouch, Fosdike (all retired)
IN: Seaby, Bradshaw, Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn, Rohan, Jetta, Reid, TDL, Sumner

And 2013:

OUT: Mumford, Lamb, White, Armstrong (probably), Everitt (probably)
IN: Franklin

Hm.

So in 09 we completely regenerated our ruck, brought in a forward who, when playing, played his role in 2010, and was signed to a measley 3 year contract. We brought in Kennedy, who is now one of our gun midfielders. We brought in McGlynn, 30 goals a season for his past three seasons. Jetta, goes without saying. Reid, goes without saying. Rohan, goes without saying.

In 13 we got rid of our number one ruckman, leaving our ruck division depleted. We got rid of a forward who was just starting to prove his worth. We got rid of a promising young forward. And we're likely to get rid of a utility who was just starting to prove his worth to the team.

Jessie was never staying regardless of Buddy , was always competing with Reid , Armstrong didn't get a game with all our injuries in Mattner , Shaw , AJ and then they played a rookie in Biggs before him , so the way I see it Armstrong was never a plan of the future.

 

[AlibiMonday]

Goodes is no longer paid as a match winner, and 2013 is a testament to that fact. Going by your formula, how many matches did he win for us in 2013? Goodes earned his salary off field this year, but still has the capacity to have a destructive impact on the field. I have no doubt he will bob up in 2014 and provide some champion performances.

Well we can agree on your statements here. You're right, he probably didn't obtain 4 match winning BOG games in 2013 and was probably a bit shy in 2012 too. But over the journey, he's easily made up the value we're paying him. The ledger is well balanced and if anything, in favour of the club rather than Goodes.

But our ledger over the journey with Buddy will be out by leagues! Hawthorn have taken most of the value already. Buddy's a great player. But he's not Gary Ablett. Yet, we're paying him like he's Gary Ablett. And because he's not going to have the same elite consistency as Ablett, we're going to find our team's performance constrained by his salary particularly in 4 years time.

You say we'll get 4-6 years of good out of him. I think you're probably right, but I can't imagine it being better than his last two years which were high class, but not breathtaking. Even then, that's not nearly commensurate enough to artificially throttle our list's capacity for the remaining 3-5 years.

Anyway, at what point did this club feel they needed to bet the house? I thought we were doing just fine. Crazy me.

 

[Bonz]

Even that's a ******* joke.

2009 was easily our best off-season list management wise. 2012-13 will haunt us for a long time to come.

Agree that 2009 was our best off-season list management wise, it won us a flag and collected several real starts for us.

But not going to agree with the fact that 2012-2013 will haunt us for a long time, with the increases in our salary cap I think we should be able to retain most of our players.

You also have to look at the players we have lost and the reasons why they left and it should explain to everyone that they haven't left because of the Franklin funds.

Mumford - We didn't want to offer him a 3-4 year deal due to his injury troubles (GWS Did)
Lamb - Earning three times the amount of money at GWS than he would of at Sydney (No Brainer)
White - Always looked like he was going to leave to pursue greater opportunities.
Everitt? - We have offered him a new contract but he may choose to leave to chase better playing opportunities elsewhere (And he is still known to be making up his mind)

If your worried about loosing Hanners, Mitchell, Parker or another young gun remember most of our kids are contracted for at least another 2 years (And most of them 3 or 4) and by the time they are out of contract the likes or Goodes, ROK, Shaw, LRT and Malceski would have retired hence freeing up a fair bit of space in our cap.

Franklins contract may hurt us a bit in the 7th, 8th and 9th years of his contract... But at that point we are likely to be rebuilding and focusing on youth (Who won't probably be paid a huge amount of the cap_ so we really should be fine.

 

[Swandwagonner]

So let's go over 2009:

OUT: Hall, O'Loughlin, Barry, Crouch, Fosdike (all retired)
IN: Seaby, Bradshaw, Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn, Rohan, Jetta, Reid, TDL, Sumner

And 2013:

OUT: Mumford, Lamb, White, Armstrong (probably), Everitt (probably)
IN: Franklin

Hm.

So in 09 we completely regenerated our ruck, brought in a forward who, when playing, played his role in 2010, and was signed to a measley 3 year contract. We brought in Kennedy, who is now one of our gun midfielders. We brought in McGlynn, 30 goals a season for his past three seasons. Jetta, goes without saying. Reid, goes without saying. Rohan, goes without saying.

In 13 we got rid of our number one ruckman, leaving our ruck division depleted. We got rid of a forward who was just starting to prove his worth. We got rid of a promising young forward. And we're likely to get rid of a utility who was just starting to prove his worth to the team.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Trade period is not yet finalised. And we have not yet picked up players in the national draft.

You also forgot to include all the retirements, and the drafting of Lloyd Perris (who by all accounts is a very promising player).

And even on the players you have listed, Mumford is the only one on that list who is possibly a loss to the club, and even he was on the slide. The others are just not important players. They are not best 22 players, and they may never be. And we have given them all a bloody good go.

The club has a great reputation for its list management for a reason. That reason does not include throwing ridiculous money at spuds. White had plenty of chances at our club, so good luck to him elsewhere.

 

[Punts]

Pyke went passed mummy and they where never going to play , Tippett , Pyke , Mummy all in the same side come 2014. Everitt could still stay

 

[SM]

Mumford - We didn't want to offer him a 3-4 year deal due to his injury troubles (GWS Did)
Lamb - Earning three times the amount of money at GWS than he would of at Sydney (No Brainer)
White - Always looked like he was going to leave to pursue greater opportunities.
Everitt? - We have offered him a new contract but he may choose to leave to chase better playing opportunities elsewhere (And he is still known to be making up his mind)

Mumford - We did offer a 3 year deal. He got more money at GWS. Money we used on Franklin.
Lamb - We could have offered him more money to stay. Money we used on Franklin.
White - Was never going to get an opportunity next year with us. Because of Franklin.
Everitt - If he leaves, it will also be because we couldn't match his contract offer. Because of Franklin.

 

[SM]

Pyke went passed mummy and they where never going to play , Tippett , Pyke , Mummy all in the same side come 2014. Everitt could still stay

Pyke went past Mumford as a forward-resting ruckman, he was never the number one tap ruckman.

 

[Tuhob]

So let's go over 2009:

OUT: Hall, O'Loughlin, Barry, Crouch, Fosdike (all retired)
IN: Seaby, Bradshaw, Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn, Rohan, Jetta, Reid, TDL, Sumner

And 2013:

OUT: Mumford, Lamb, White, Armstrong (probably), Everitt (probably)
IN: Franklin

Hm.

So in 09 we completely regenerated our ruck, brought in a forward who, when playing, played his role in 2010, and was signed to a measley 3 year contract. We brought in Kennedy, who is now one of our gun midfielders. We brought in McGlynn, 30 goals a season for his past three seasons. Jetta, goes without saying. Reid, goes without saying. Rohan, goes without saying.

In 13 we got rid of our number one ruckman, leaving our ruck division depleted. We got rid of a forward who was just starting to prove his worth. We got rid of a promising young forward. And we're likely to get rid of a utility who was just starting to prove his worth to the team.

You can only look at this trade/draft period in hindsight. You have listed the draft picks from 2009 (Rohan, Jetta, Reid etc) but have conveniently not listed our 2013 draft picks (15, 35, 39 etc) who could conceivably turn out to be good players.

 

[AlibiMonday]

Mumford - We did offer a 3 year deal. He got more money at GWS. Money we used on Franklin.
Lamb - We could have offered him more money to stay. Money we used on Franklin.
White - Was never going to get an opportunity next year with us. Because of Franklin.
Everitt - If he leaves, it will also be because we couldn't match his contract offer. Because of Franklin.

More to the point - because of our severe financial situation with the Franklin contract, we're getting very very soft trade value. I wouldn't mind so much if other clubs paid the right price, but we're getting shafted because of Franklin.

 

[Swandwagonner]

Anyway, at what point did this club feel they needed to bet the house? I thought we were doing just fine. Crazy me.

I do not think it is a crazy move. Nor is it betting the house. It is a calculated play by some very smart people at our club, who have run a very professional unit for the past decade, and delivered a period of success that is the envy of most of the other clubs.

You're entitled to your opinion. Franklin works for the club at this point in time. He will almost certainly contribute to a couple of flags over the term of his contract. And his salary will be a small investment considering the revenue that it will generate for the club, for the tv rights deal, and for the game in NSW.

It only works in the short term because we are looking at the retirements of so many of our older players (Bolts, Marty, Goodes, ROK, LRT - oh and Morton), and it works in the long run because the club know what they are doing. In real terms he will be earning coin equivalent to what Hall was on.

I think the club have the runs on the board with regard to list management and call me crazy but I'll back a winning horse.

 

[SM]

You can only look at this trade/draft period in hindsight. You have listed the draft picks from 2009 (Rohan, Jetta, Reid etc) but have conveniently not listed our 2013 draft picks (15, 35, 39 etc) who could conceivably turn out to be good players.

I'm not conveniently doing anything. We haven't brought those players in yet so they haven't been listed. When we do, they come into the equation. I'm talking right here, right now. And those draft picks have zero bearing on the Franklin pick up as that didn't involve draft picks. It's kind of part of my point that a thread labelling the Franklin pick up as a trade is stupid.

 

[Punts]

Mumford - We did offer a 3 year deal. He got more money at GWS. Money we used on Franklin.
Lamb - We could have offered him more money to stay. Money we used on Franklin.
White - Was never going to get an opportunity next year with us. Because of Franklin.
Everitt - If he leaves, it will also be because we couldn't match his contract offer. Because of Franklin.

How long has Jessie had FFS and every 1 was still not sold on him in 2013
Mumford had a shit year that's a fact, and will never get to what he was 3 years ago , Hawks didn't take him due to knees.
Lamb with a full list never would have been in the best 22 , they played 3 rookies before him come Finals and a Rohan who had been out for 18 months ,has gone for more game time and money , can ya blame him.
Everitt will stay

 

[Swandwagonner]

More to the point - because of our severe financial situation with the Franklin contract, we're getting very very soft trade value. I wouldn't mind so much if other clubs paid the right price, but we're getting shafted because of Franklin.

Actually that is false. Mumford went cheap, but we could not have given White away last year if we had paid his contract at another club. The others are not best 22, and you don't get early round picks for players that do not earn their spot in the 22. They have had their chances at this club and they have not taken them. Let them go and wish them well, as we wished Veszpremi well when we traded him out.

Pound for pound, the trade cost of Franklin, even if we have had to give up the players listed as a consequence of the deal - which is not factual, is cheap. Would any other club have given up these players for Franklin plus the picks we have in the National Draft. You bet they would. In a heartbeat.

 

[AlibiMonday]

I do not think it is a crazy move. Nor is it betting the house. It is a calculated play by some very smart people at our club, who have run a very professional unit for the past decade, and delivered a period of success that is the envy of most of the other clubs.

You're entitled to your opinion. Franklin works for the club at this point in time. He will almost certainly contribute to a couple of flags over the term of his contract. And his salary will be a small investment considering the revenue that it will generate for the club, for the tv rights deal, and for the game in NSW.

It only works in the short term because we are looking at the retirements of so many of our older players (Bolts, Marty, Goodes, ROK, LRT - oh and Morton), and it works in the long run because the club know what they are doing. In real terms he will be earning coin equivalent to what Hall was on.

I think the club have the runs on the board with regard to list management and call me crazy but I'll back a winning horse.

Well, we'll find out in 5 years who was right. In the meantime, I'll be hoping I turn out to be wrong.

 

[Swandwagonner]

When we're singing the club song at the last game in 2016 having successfully pulled off a threepeat, all this hand wringing is going to look pretty stupid. Get on board, get excited. It is going to be great.

 

[Swandwagonner]

Well, we'll find out in 5 years who was right. In the meantime, I'll be hoping I turn out to be wrong.

I should add that I was never a fan of Franklin, mainly due to his wayward kicking. But having seen him play at the GF in 2012, and looking at the highlights reel, I have changed my tune. I can't wait to see him run out for us, and let's hope the highlights reel is updated in years to come to feature a majority of his plays (if not all) wearing our jumper.

 

[SM]

When we're singing the club song at the last game in 2016 having successfully pulled off a threepeat, all this hand wringing is going to look pretty stupid. Get on board, get excited. It is going to be great.

It's like the old gamble about Christianity. If I'm proven wrong, then woohoo I get to celebrate a threepeat, but if I'm proven right then I haven't gotten my hopes up over nothing.

 

[Bonz]

Mumford - We did offer a 3 year deal. He got more money at GWS. Money we used on Franklin.
Lamb - We could have offered him more money to stay. Money we used on Franklin.
White - Was never going to get an opportunity next year with us. Because of Franklin.
Everitt - If he leaves, it will also be because we couldn't match his contract offer. Because of Franklin.

Mumford - He is getting 650,000 a year at GWS, He wouldn't of been worth those funds on our list, We still offered Mumford a contract that we thought was appropriate to his value.

Lamb - Offering over 300,000 per year on a player that has played 12 games is reck
less.

White - Has had several opportunities to get game time on out list, We wouldn't of offered him the same 3 year deal that Collingwood offered him, Would of still started behind Tippett, Goodes and Reid, Franklin is far more mobile and a better option up forward.

Everitt - We have put forward a contract offer and he is still considering it, I wouldn't want to break the bank for him as I wouldn't be able to guarantee that he is best 22 next year and beyond.

 

[Numbered Days]

So in 2009 we lost a number of great players and built a flag winning side. So why are we worried about losing a group of players where most aren't even in our best 22?

We gain one of the best players in the game and lose players that are good but replaceable. Given the 2009 precedent, where is the negativity coming from?

 

[SM]

Mumford - He is getting 650,000 a year at GWS, He wouldn't of been worth those funds on our list, We still offered Mumford a contract that we thought was appropriate to his value.

Lamb - Offering over 300,000 per year on a player that has played 12 games is reck
less.

White - Has had several opportunities to get game time on out list, We wouldn't of offered him the same 3 year deal that Collingwood offered him, Would of still started behind Tippett, Goodes and Reid, Franklin is far more mobile and a better option up forward.

Everitt - We have put forward a contract offer and he is still considering it, I wouldn't want to break the bank for him as I wouldn't be able to guarantee that he is best 22 next year and beyond.

Mumford - And he didn't take it. Them's the breaks.
Lamb - Like the amount we offered 0-gamer Mitchell?
White - Goodes will be a bit-parter if he ever gets on the park, Reid will play more in defence, so would have been a position for White if/when Goodes went down.
Everitt - No but he's good depth to have, and if we lose all our depth then they're as valuable as Best 22ers.

 

[Swandwagonner]

It's like the old gamble about Christianity. If I'm proven wrong, then woohoo I get to celebrate a threepeat, but if I'm proven right then I haven't gotten my hopes up over nothing.

Geez mate why so glum? I'd hate to see what happened if you won the lottery. "Shit, all my family will want some of my money now, and I have to choose what sort of sportscar to buy, then I won't have so much money to spend. Woe is me..."

For me, you have to back the form of our club. We have a great reputation and are experiencing the most competitive era for a very long time. Two flags in 8 years from 3 Grand final appearances, and our list is packed with talent. It is time to be optimistic about the future, not worry about what happens if things do not go to plan.

It's more than 1 player. Take Bradshaw for instance. From the totality of his on field performances over his contract, we might have made better use of the salary cap. The same could definitely be said of White, and Barlow, and Playfair... The list goes on. But you have to back the club. Surely recent history warrants this.

 

[SM]

Geez mate why so glum? I'd hate to see what happened if you won the lottery. "Shit, all my family will want some of my money now, and I have to choose what sort of sportscar to buy, then I won't have so much money to spend. Woe is me..."

For me, you have to back the form of our club. We have a great reputation and are experiencing the most competitive era for a very long time. Two flags in 8 years from 3 Grand final appearances, and our list is packed with talent. It is time to be optimistic about the future, not worry about what happens if things do not go to plan.

It's more than 1 player. Take Bradshaw for instance. From the totality of his on field performances over his contract, we might have made better use of the salary cap. The same could definitely be said of White, and Barlow, and Playfair... The list goes on. But you have to back the club. Surely recent history warrants this.

No you're missing the point. In your analogy my current state is what I would be after buying a ticket of, "Well, chances are I won't win." You're the one dancing around the newsagent shouting "I've won the lotto!" after buying your ticket.

 

[Swandwagonner]

Mumford - And he didn't take it. Them's the breaks.
Lamb - Like the amount we offered 0-gamer Mitchell?
White - Goodes will be a bit-parter if he ever gets on the park, Reid will play more in defence, so would have been a position for White if/when Goodes went down.
Everitt - No but he's good depth to have, and if we lose all our depth then they're as valuable as Best 22ers.

You can't compare Lamb to Mitchell. Mitchell is a gun, and would have gone to another club but for the father-son pick. He should play every game next year if fit. The jury is out on Lamb.
Likewise I would play Goodes on crutches ahead of White. And there is a good chance that Reid will still play forward. Horse loves his forwards - he used to be a pretty decent one.
Everitt may stay - handy depth player but hardly best 22.

 

[SM]

You can't compare Lamb to Mitchell. Mitchell is a gun, and would have gone to another club but for the father-son pick. He should play every game next year if fit. The jury is out on Lamb.
Likewise I would play Goodes on crutches ahead of White. And there is a good chance that Reid will still play forward. Horse loves his forwards - he used to be a pretty decent one.
Everitt may stay - handy depth player but hardly best 22.

My point is Mitchell hadn't even played an AFL game and was struggling with injuries at the time, so using the excuse that Lamb hasn't played enough AFL games to justify that coin is wrong.