Opinion The greatest trade in history?

[disgruntled goat]

More speculation than how your chosen players that wore red and white in 2013 will deliver superior outcomes into the future? I'll Back the club over your small picture thinking any day. If someone presented you a trade Buddy Franklin for White and Mumford you would jump at it. Your argument and tone smacks of someone who deliberately took a contrarian view because that's the "tough guy" image you seek. Good on you for having the persistence to run with it but I have every right to respectfully disagree with your view.

"Tough guy" image??? Grow up, that's such a mindless, juvenile comment.

Let's look at it another way: before we all knew about the Franklin deal almost every poster on the Sydney board was very optimistic about the future ... we generally accepted 2013 had been cursed by injuries, and that we'd done a really good job blooding young players coverng for the injured players ... we were optimistic about Tippett's development after a season at the club, and about how the likes of Jed Lamb in particular promised so much ... now we have no Lamb, no Mumford, no Everitt and a contract for Franklin that, irrespective of on-field achievement, ties the club's hands considerably in terms of immediate future player deals.

I have no "chosen" players (apart from LRT), I'm a Swans fan who, while cautiously excited about the future, is also realistically concerned. We're on a hiding to nothing on this Franklin deal, whether you choose to believe that or not. How is this being "contrarian"?

Is this a logical enough argument?

 

[Punts]

12 months to work on the contract , I think every little thing would have been taken into account , retention of players , players thoughts blah blah blah and the Voss/Fev situation is totally different

 

[disgruntled goat]

12 months to work on the contract , I think every little thing would have been taken into account , retention of players , players thoughts blah blah blah and the Voss/Fev situation is totally different

So you're saying the club knew that far in advance, and thus figured into its calculations, the loss of, specifically, Mumford, Lamb, Everitt, et al in the face of signing Franklin??? And how could those officials have known players' feelings if, as we're led to believe, the ONLY player who had any knowledge of this was McVeigh? You're talking crap and merely HOPING this situation pans out "totally differently" to the Voss/Fevola/Brisbane debacle. Nothing more than blind hope, which is fair enough, because as fans that's the position we've all been put in by the club's signing Franklin.

We all have to simply hope it works out as a best-case scenario ...

 

[Punts]

So you're saying the club knew that far in advance, and thus figured into its calculations, the loss of, specifically, Mumford, Lamb, Everitt, et al in the face of signing Franklin??? And how could those officials have known players' feelings if, as we're led to believe, the ONLY player who had any knowledge of this was McVeigh? You're talking crap and merely HOPING this situation pans out "totally differently" to the Voss/Fevola/Brisbane debacle. Nothing more than blind hope, which is fair enough, because as fans that's the position we've all been put in by the club's signing Franklin.

We all have to simply hope it works out as a best-case scenario ...

Fev was a debacle of the field that's what ended that ,and the Club was the one who put off contract talks with Mumford so they new he wouldn't be there in 2014 and as for Lamb and Everitt I would trade a 180cm HFF that's played 12 games in 3 years then got dropped for Finals and Everitt who has been a fringe player since joining 3 years ago for Buddy any day of the week

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

So you're saying the club knew that far in advance, and thus figured into its calculations, the loss of, specifically, Mumford, Lamb, Everitt, et al in the face of signing Franklin??? And how could those officials have known players' feelings if, as we're led to believe, the ONLY player who had any knowledge of this was McVeigh? You're talking crap and merely HOPING this situation pans out "totally differently" to the Voss/Fevola/Brisbane debacle. Nothing more than blind hope, which is fair enough, because as fans that's the position we've all been put in by the club's signing Franklin.

We all have to simply hope it works out as a best-case scenario ...

Yep it's why Mumford was bemused there was no urgency from the club to contact his manager to instigate contract renewal talks, as for Lamb he was the one who put off contract talks which makes me believe GWS got in his ear early in the year and offered a much bigger deal.

White wanted out regardless if Franklin came and there was no way the club was gonna offer another 3 year deal to him.

 

[Count Dooku]

"Tough guy" image??? Grow up, that's such a mindless, juvenile comment.

Let's look at it another way: before we all knew about the Franklin deal almost every poster on the Sydney board was very optimistic about the future ... we generally accepted 2013 had been cursed by injuries, and that we'd done a really good job blooding young players coverng for the injured players ... we were optimistic about Tippett's development after a season at the club, and about how the likes of Jed Lamb in particular promised so much ... now we have no Lamb, no Mumford, no Everitt and a contract for Franklin that, irrespective of on-field achievement, ties the club's hands considerably in terms of immediate future player deals.

I have no "chosen" players (apart from LRT), I'm a Swans fan who, while cautiously excited about the future, is also realistically concerned. We're on a hiding to nothing on this Franklin deal, whether you choose to believe that or not. How is this being "contrarian"?

Is this a logical enough argument?

Obviously hit a nerve given you had to respond twice with same drivel in different words. The more you try and artculate logic the more it confirms you just blurt for effect. Masking this latest post with a softer tone doesnt hide the fact you remain a bully. Oh and by the way I sat in the stands and watched Peter Bedford run around the Lakeside oval in the early 1970's so I am greatful you have shaved off a few years for me.

 

[Swandwagonner]

You're talking crap and merely HOPING this situation pans out "totally differently" to the Voss/Fevola/Brisbane debacle.

This situation is completely different to the scenario to which you refer, and quite frankly you do yourself, the club and this forum a disservice to attempt to make this tenuous connection.

Fevola was a lazy player who never worked for anything. He wasted every opportunity given to him, and was kicked out of Carlton after the death of his famous patron and biggest fan. In reality he should have been thrown out much earlier. He left Carlton in disgrace after a very poor performance at the Brownlow medal count that year. There are more similarities between Fevola's attitude and that of two of the players who have left the club (White onfield, and Mumford off it) than with Franklin, and even those similarities are tenuous.

Aside from the playing stats comparison in which similarities can be found, both have won the Coleman twice, and the fact that they were of a similar age and number of games/goals when recruited to their respective new clubs, the comparison ends there.

Perhaps you think that our club does not deserve the reputation it has earned for superior list management. Perhaps you think that we have been lucky to have enjoyed the period of success including two flags over the past decade. Perhaps you think that Lance Franklin is lucky to have played in two premierships, and consistently been regarded as one of the best players in one of the best teams under one of the best coaches in the league - a team in which Fevola would likely not have not lasted 5 minutes.

This is the third thread in which these comments have been raised. And beside the points made above, we might have lost/traded the players you mention in any case.

Would Sydney have paid Mumford 650K a season (with or without Buddy)? - probably not.
Would Sydney have paid Lamb (who has had only 12 games) $1mill over 3 years? - probably not.
Is Everitt or Lamb in the same calibre as Hanners, Mitchell, Jack, Rohan, Parker, Jetta?
I will not mention White because there is enough commentary on BF alone regarding White's performance at our club over the years to explain why he would not be offered another contract at the Swans.
Why are we still talking about this?

 

[Swandwagonner]

It is stupid to make a comparison to Fevola. How many clubs were interested in Fevola when Brisbane took him? Very few I would suggest. Franklin would likely be recruited by any club in the league if they could afford him. Frankly it is disrespectful to mention the two players in the same post, and I apologise.

 

[RW]

In fact, the thread title is ridiculous.

It needs a question mark I reckon, a little punctuation can make all the difference!

 

[Tuco]

Without getting too personal regarding Fevola, the main difference I see is that Brisbane had a coach who was fooled into thinking his Premiership window was open by a premature finals appearance, and was prepared to sell the farm to add on top. He brought in Xavier clarke, Amon, Staker, Raines, Matt Maguire and Fev. Gave away some top picks. Cut Bradshaw for spite, traded away Lachie Hendersen etc etc.

I might be wrong but just about the only player they drafted up who stuck around from that year was Pearce Hanley as a promoted rookie?

There is no way you can compare the actions of the Swans here to Brisbane. We've traded an ageing starting 22 ruckman, a promising but erratic FWD, a promising starting 25 defender and a 12 game rookie for a great player, and a bunch of picks which we plan to use wisely - I imagine. And unlike Bribane we are actually in a Premiership window.

The concern in chatterland is that we've had too many retirements and our depth is gone.

Well this could be true, but it is also just as likely to only be as true as 2002 when we lost the bulk of our '96 veterans and everyone thought we'd be cooked.

And to remind everyone about 2002:

We lost Lockett, Kelly, Dunkley, Schwass, had a miserable season and everyone picked us to bottom out in 2003.

But we traded for Nick Davis, got Craig bolton in the PSD. And we brought in a large number of future players that year in the drafts: Mal, Macca, Demspter, Bevan etc.

We relied on improvements from debutants like Schnieder, Amon, LRT etc and from in-house improvements from players like Bolton, Kirk and co.

I predict we'll be looking to do something similar. We'll be fine

 

[Swandwagonner]

And to remind everyone about 2002:

We lost Lockett, Kelly, Dunkley, Schwass, had a miserable season and everyone picked us to bottom out in 2003.

But we traded for Nick Davis, got Craig bolton in the PSD. And we brought in a large number of future players that year in the drafts: Mal, Macca, Demspter, Bevan etc.

We relied on improvements from debutants like Schnieder, Amon, LRT etc and from in-house improvements from players like Bolton, Kirk and co.

I predict we'll be looking to do something similar. We'll be fine

I agree with you, and probably should not have gone as hard as I did on Fev.But I will add to your post in that we expect our players to contribute on and off the field, and Bolton and Davis are testament to that. As are injured players Goodes and Shaw during 2013, who contributed to the club whilst being unable to contribute onfield.

But back to the 2002 recruits.

Craig Bolton contributed as a leader and premiership defender during his playing days, but also provided leadership off the field and mentored some of the current crop of defenders, passing on the benefit of his experience.

Incidentally, Nick Davis ended up playing more games than his dad, played in three Grand Finals and ended up with a medal around his neck in 2005. Despite some hiccups he has continued to contribute to the club after his career ended, including this year as a forwards coach helping some of the youngsters develop. And given his erratic form, nobody would have predicted he would be the player to step up in 2005 when we needed him - yet he did.

The club would expect much of Franklin, both on the field and also in supporting and developing youngsters during his playing days, and beyond. Hopefully there will be some collaboration between him and Micky O at the academy, to help us continue to develop and register interest in promising players before they even get to the draft, as we did with Lloyd Perris.

 

[Swandwagonner]

[Voss] ...brought in Xavier clarke, Amon, Staker, Raines, Matt Maguire and Fev. Gave away some top picks. Cut Bradshaw for spite, traded away Lachie Hendersen etc etc.

I think they may have had some inside info on Bradshaw as well regarding his knee. I think they knew he was cooked. I liked Bradshaw though - who can forget that torp.

 

[bungee]

Lot of talk in this thread about marquee players, Buddy replacing Goodes as our top dog and so on. IMO Macca will be the most important player in our team for the next 3-5 years. He's a genuine Brownlow contender and there's nothing to indicate he's reached his peak. Following his peak he'll move forward to add a few last years of polish to a glittering career. Let's hope we still have plenty of cap space to pay him what he's worth as well as retaining the other talents we have incubated over the last few years. Buddy and Tippet are very handy players but they won't be what makes the Swans truly great.

 

[swansfan51]

IMO Macca will be the most important player in our team for the next 3-5 years. He's a genuine Brownlow contender

Absolutely nowhere near being a Brownlow contender. 12 votes this year which was only 4th from our club, and that is his highest ever total.

 

[Wolftone]

I do not agree with your formula in any case: the game has changed and it is a business as much as it is a competition performed on field.

That said, on field, I would argue that Goodes has a similar skill set to Buddy: agility, speed and cunning. Buddy is rat cunning, can perform amazing feats onfield and like Goodes, he is a champion player. He has performed consistently throughout his career because he is very, very good. He is ranked among the very best players in the league because he is very, VERY good.

I will return to the final point in my last post. Not all games are equal. Goodes is no longer paid as a match winner, and 2013 is a testament to that fact. Going by your formula, how many matches did he win for us in 2013? Goodes earned his salary off field this year, but still has the capacity to have a destructive impact on the field. I have no doubt he will bob up in 2014 and provide some champion performances.

If Buddy can provide us with 4-6 REALLY good years, then his deal will have been worth it, particularly when you factor in the increases to the salary cap that will occur over time. His final years will be paid at a high salary, but in terms of the cap, it will be much less as a percentage than it would be in respect of today's cap.

There is a lot of hand wringing by certain fans over the recruitment of Franklin, but at the end of the day, you have to put faith in our footy department. They have a very good reputation for a reason. This deal is great for our club. It is equivalent to bringing an in form Carey or Ablett to the Swans in their prime, with a team in a position to win already. He dominated at Hawthorn, and I can't wait to see Buddy dominate for our club.

I have to disagree with one sentiment. Yes AFL is a business but in business you only make money if the business is successful. In AFL to be successful you have to win premierships. Making the finals is not going to expand the membership like winning a premiership. In 2013 the membership increased considerably due to winning the 2012 flag. Sponsorship also increased due to winning a premiership. This in the hardest market in Australia to make a success. If we drop out of the top four our membership and sponsorship drop accordingly. The idea of AFL is to win the premiership, as many times as possible. It does not matter that it is a business it is still a game and the most important thing in a game is to win. Winners are see as successful and losers are not. To say that with Buddy coming to Sydney it is not important if we win the premiership is ridiculous. If we don't win a premiership or two are the new members that Buddy has attracted going to stay around? No they will go back to whatever they did on a weekend before Buddy came along and he will be relegated to the experience page of people's book of life, bad or good.

 

[bungee]

Absolutely nowhere near being a Brownlow contender. 12 votes this year which was only 4th from our club, and that is his highest ever total.

I think the Brownlow voting reflects the fact that Macca sacrificed his natural midfield game this year to shore up our half-back line. The club knew that and recognised it with the club award. His play in the midfield in the earlier part of the semi against Carlton gives a better idea of where his game is at. He's gone from frustrating cameos of brilliance to consistent displays of pure silkiness. Purrrrrr....