News The Hawthorn Allegations

[jmac70]

Neither of the first two are set up or appropriate to deal with this matter.

The Human Rights Commission could hear a complaint if any of the players brought one before them.

It depends upon the scope of what the players want. There’s the crux of it, no one as yet knows what they want.

The current investigation is trying to get to the bottom of it, to at least know what everyone has to say for themselves.

We don’t even know if there’s anything yet that needs a hearing or arbitration.

Maybe the players and families just want to tell their story in the hope of educating people.
Which of course, they have already done in the Hawthorn inquiry.

Unless there is something new to share, I wouldn’t be surprised if they let those statements stand and not attend.

The establishment of an authentic truth telling process that is culturally safe and fair to all participants is a tricky thing to set up. Particularly when you factor in the legal system.

Isn’t this partly what Krakouer and Davis are working on at Collingwood?

 

[jonbe54]

Maybe the players and families just want to tell their story in the hope of educating people.
Which of course, they have already done in the Hawthorn inquiry.

Unless there is something new to share, I wouldn’t be surprised if they let those statements stand and not attend.

The establishment of an authentic truth telling process that is culturally safe and fair to all participants is a tricky thing to set up. Particularly when you factor in the legal system.

Isn’t this partly what Krakouer and Davis are working on at Collingwood?

Different first nations have their own particular minor variations as well.

But doesn't a good neighbour take into account the needs of their neighbours?

 

[sideswipe]

Let us start with
1. Yoorrook Justice Commission
2. National Sports Commission
3. Human Rights Commission

These Aboriginal boys are being abandoned by the AFL and set up badly by a panel that is not deemed culturally safe by them.

Not sure there is anything stopping the complainants from approaching Yoorrook to tell their truth? Not sure that path is open to the AFL.

Might be time to stop calling them boys. The complainants are adult men and women. Who have made claims about a sporting organisation. The governing body of that sporting organisation seeking to investigate those claims by appointing an experienced and well-credentialed, “culturally experienced” panel is entirely appropriate.

And yes, they have the capacity to act entirely independently of the AFL. Anyone asserting otherwise doesn’t understand the realities of legal practice. If you want to take it a step further, it’s in the individual panel members’ best interest to act independently.


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[manicpie]

Not sure there is anything stopping the complainants from approaching Yoorrook to tell their truth? Not sure that path is open to the AFL.

Might be time to stop calling them boys. The complainants are adult men and women. Who have made claims about a sporting organisation. The governing body of that sporting organisation seeking to investigate those claims by appointing an experienced and well-credentialed, “culturally experienced” panel is entirely appropriate.

And yes, they have the capacity to act entirely independently of the AFL. Anyone asserting otherwise doesn’t understand the realities of legal practice. If you want to take it a step further, it’s in the individual panel members’ best interest to act independently.


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This isn't going through the legal system though so it's hard to compare it. It will end up going through the legal system once the two coaches sue the shit out of everyone involved, because that's what will happen regardless of the outcome

 

[jmac70]

How can a person who has told the truth about their experience be sued?

 

[sr36]

How can a person who has told the truth about their experience be sued?

If what you've said is defamatory and you can't establish that it's probably true, you can be sued, but no one is going to sue the claimants, it doesn't sound like they've got enough money.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Not sure there is anything stopping the complainants from approaching Yoorrook to tell their truth? Not sure that path is open to the AFL.

Might be time to stop calling them boys. The complainants are adult men and women. Who have made claims about a sporting organisation. The governing body of that sporting organisation seeking to investigate those claims by appointing an experienced and well-credentialed, “culturally experienced” panel is entirely appropriate.

And yes, they have the capacity to act entirely independently of the AFL. Anyone asserting otherwise doesn’t understand the realities of legal practice. If you want to take it a step further, it’s in the individual panel members’ best interest to act independently.


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I will call them what I want. At my age and in my culture they are ‘boys’ The old people don’t understand realities of legal practice’ is being thrown around very loosely. Pretty amusing. The panel is not close to being culturally appropriate. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t understand the realities of being Aboriginal.

 

[Cyclops]

It can be hard to cover up something that wasn't illegal. You'll probably get "insufficient evidence" on anything that's not on the banned list. Self reporting is for illicet drugs. but I agree that hird is a halfwit and Thompson a drug pig

Essendon stated they were taking stuff off the books which is, by itself, a 2 year ban. It beggars belief these amateurs thought they could get away with anything but that, and they used the immortal words that they "weren't comfortable" there had been an offence. I think they were trying to say they weren't satisfied, but were too stupid to use the correct legal jargon.

No one tested positive for anything, the offence was taking drugs and not noting them (players have to record every aspirin they take).

The fact Thompson's part was glossed over and great pains were taken to fit up Hird was diabolical. From the word go his 2 drug flags at Geelong were protected, suggesting Costa got involved early.

But by all means lets trust the same flog that protected Thompson, smeared Hird, protected Geelong and tried (with amateurish incompetence) to cover up the whole shebang investigate a four time premiership coach and a former premier from a politically important club. He'll probably discover "Hawthorn did nothing wrong and North were at fault".

If what you've said is defamatory and you can't establish that it's probably true, you can be sued, but no one is going to sue the claimants, it doesn't sound like they've got enough money.

Yes our libel and slander laws are pretty skewed in favour of the bastard with the most money.

 

[sideswipe]

I will call them what I want. At my age and in my culture they are ‘boys’ The old people don’t understand realities of legal practice’ is being thrown around very loosely. Pretty amusing. The panel is not close to being culturally appropriate. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t understand the realities of being Aboriginal.

Explain to me how this panel isn’t going to act independently?

Then go ahead and explain the cultural practice that allows for allegations of the most serious nature to be made and then not afford the other party the right to address those allegations?




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[sr36]

Essendon stated they were taking stuff off the books which is, by itself, a 2 year ban. It beggars belief these amateurs thought they could get away with anything but that, and they used the immortal words that they "weren't comfortable" there had been an offence. I think they were trying to say they weren't satisfied, but were too stupid to use the correct legal jargon.

No one tested positive for anything, the offence was taking drugs and not noting them (players have to record every aspirin they take).

The fact Thompson's part was glossed over and great pains were taken to fit up Hird was diabolical. From the word go his 2 drug flags at Geelong were protected, suggesting Costa got involved early.

But by all means lets trust the same flog that protected Thompson, smeared Hird, protected Geelong and tried (with amateurish incompetence) to cover up the whole shebang investigate a four time premiership coach and a former premier from a politically important club. He'll probably discover "Hawthorn did nothing wrong and North were at fault".

Wasn't the big thing that there was evidence that they had taken a substance that had become prohibited. Dank had been slack and hadn't kept up to date with the new drugs that had been added to the prohibited list and they were taking it.

 

[jonbe54]

Wasn't the big thing that there was evidence that they had taken a substance that had become prohibited. Dank had been slack and hadn't kept up to date with the new drugs that had been added to the prohibited list and they were taking it.

That would really set the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Would love to see Dank jailed but the AFL will be working overtime to bury it just like they warned Richmond before the axe fell.

 

[sr36]

That would really set the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Would love to see Dank jailed but the AFL will be working overtime to bury it just like they warned Richmond before the axe fell.

I was talking about at the time whenthe investigation took place. One of the substances they were taking had made it's way onto the prohibited list by the WADA code, but not the criminal code.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Explain to me how this panel isn’t going to act independently?

Then go ahead and explain the cultural practice that allows for allegations of the most serious nature to be made and then not afford the other party the right to address those allegations?




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As they are another AFL stooge and the AFL have burnt Aboriginal players for decades and decades. There is none and there lies the biggest issue. The system is designed for highflyers who dress in suits and talk legal jargon. As soon as a power imbalance is present Aboriginal people are disadvantaged. Aboriginal people have been mistreated in this country for hundreds of years and they continue to be today. If Clarkson made an accusation against an Aboriginal player there would be no questions asked. He would be sent packing with comments about his upbringing and lifestyle. There is not a chance he would be asked his side of the story. The power will always lie with the wealthy white in this country.

 

[sr36]

As they are another AFL stooge and the AFL have burnt Aboriginal players for decades and decades. There is none and there lies the biggest issue. The system is designed for highflyers who dress in suits and talk legal jargon. As soon as a power imbalance is present Aboriginal people are disadvantaged. Aboriginal people have been mistreated in this country for hundreds of years and they continue to be today. If Clarkson made an accusation against an Aboriginal player there would be no questions asked. He would be sent packing with comments about his upbringing and lifestyle. There is not a chance he would be asked his side of the story. The power will always lie with the wealthy white in this country.

You might want to look more closely at the panel. They're not AFL stooges.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You might want to look more closely at the panel. They're not AFL stooges.

I know half the panel members personally and extremely well. There could not be more of a divide between them and the Aboriginal boys concerned. An AFL appointed panel will always have AFL stooges. They are good people but the gap exists AGAIN

 

[ExcitementMachine]

As they are another AFL stooge and the AFL have burnt Aboriginal players for decades and decades. There is none and there lies the biggest issue. The system is designed for highflyers who dress in suits and talk legal jargon. As soon as a power imbalance is present Aboriginal people are disadvantaged. Aboriginal people have been mistreated in this country for hundreds of years and they continue to be today. If Clarkson made an accusation against an Aboriginal player there would be no questions asked. He would be sent packing with comments about his upbringing and lifestyle. There is not a chance he would be asked his side of the story. The power will always lie with the wealthy white in this country.

That's not true mate.

 

[South of the Yarra]

That's not true mate.

What is not true?

 

[ExcitementMachine]

What is not true?

If clarkson made an accusation against an indigenous player there would be no questions asked...
Just a bit hyperbolic in parts.

 

[sr36]

I know half the panel members personally and extremely well. There could not be more of a divide between them and the Aboriginal boys concerned. An AFL appointed panel will always have AFL stooges. They are good people but the gap exists AGAIN

I'm going to ignore the stooge part, as I think that's underselling the professionalism of the selected panel. On the other part, are you referring to the reality that regardless of ancestry, those in the legal profession are always going to have lived, been trained, worked and thus been assimilated into Western culture? Are you referring to a desire for a non-Western legal framework for an inquiry into the matter?

 

[South of the Yarra]

If clarkson made an accusation against an indigenous player there would be no questions asked...
Just a bit hyperbolic in parts.

Absolute rubbish. I know at least ten Aboriginal players sent back across borders with reputations in tatters and no questions ask. I truly don't think you know what many Aboriginal people experience. If Clarkson said an Aboriginal player was lazy, had disrupted the team, was ..... he would not have a chance to respond.

 

[sideswipe]

As they are another AFL stooge and the AFL have burnt Aboriginal players for decades and decades. There is none and there lies the biggest issue. The system is designed for highflyers who dress in suits and talk legal jargon. As soon as a power imbalance is present Aboriginal people are disadvantaged. Aboriginal people have been mistreated in this country for hundreds of years and they continue to be today. If Clarkson made an accusation against an Aboriginal player there would be no questions asked. He would be sent packing with comments about his upbringing and lifestyle. There is not a chance he would be asked his side of the story. The power will always lie with the wealthy white in this country.

It is probably impossible for some not to do this - but conflating historical wrongs with the appointment of this panel is not helpful when looking at the setup of this investigation.

Nor is constantly referring to a power imbalance. These are serious allegations that need to be properly investigated by appropriately qualified people. If that creates a divide, well, it can't be any other way.

 

[jonbe54]

I was talking about at the time whenthe investigation took place. One of the substances they were taking had made it's way onto the prohibited list by the WADA code, but not the criminal code.

Roger that sr -

I'd still love to see that twat do hard time though

 

[sr36]

Absolute rubbish. I know at least ten Aboriginal players sent back across borders with reputations in tatters and no questions ask. I truly don't think you know what many Aboriginal people experience. If Clarkson said an Aboriginal player was lazy, had disrupted the team, was ..... he would not have a chance to respond.

That power imbalance goes beyond race though. That's any recruit who the coaches think has character traits that will stop them from making it.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Sadly this thread demonstrates the divide will never be healed until both sides genuinely want it. At the moment that isn't the case.

 

[gouki88]

I don’t think you answered a single thing I said in my post.

You don’t understand the process and you just repeated your rant.

Lawyers bad