Oppo Camp The Hawthorn Racism Report

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CountryLad said:
One of things that has surprised me in this is that if the Hawks board new of the report 2 weeks ago then why wasn’t Jeff Kennett in the country to front the media?
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Because he's a racist old campaigner who has had a colourful life who got involved with beyond blue to white wash his previous behaviours
 

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Tugga27 said:
More to the point, why wouldn't she back him?
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The vulnerability of backing him is that if he goes down it would harm her own reputation, she is effectively taking a side. It is why nobody at Brisbane is prepared to go down backing Fagan.

She is effectively saying she believes his version instead of what the ABC printed and what is likely in the Hawthorn probe. I hope she is right, but to some extent she has entangled her fate with his.

Unless our indigenous players were consulted and agreed with her stance, it could cause problems with that player group, especially if the outcome is bad.
 
Tas said:
The vulnerability of backing him is that if he goes down it would harm her own reputation, she is effectively taking a side. It is why nobody at Brisbane is prepared to go down backing Fagan.

She is effectively saying she believes his version instead of what the ABC printed and what is likely in the Hawthorn probe. I hope she is right, but to some extent she has entangled her fate with his.

Unless our indigenous players were consulted and agreed with her stance, it could cause problems with that player group, especially if the outcome is bad.
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It's possible that Clarko's version and the ABC version are both correct and are a matter of interpretation. I can't see why Sonja Hood would stick her neck out like this if she's quizzed Clarko herself as to do so would be career suicide unless she was confident in Clarko's version of events.
 
Tas said:
The vulnerability of backing him is that if he goes down it would harm her own reputation, she is effectively taking a side. It is why nobody at Brisbane is prepared to go down backing Fagan.

She is effectively saying she believes his version instead of what the ABC printed and what is likely in the Hawthorn probe. I hope she is right, but to some extent she has entangled her fate with his.

Unless our indigenous players were consulted and agreed with her stance, it could cause problems with that player group, especially if the outcome is bad.
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I feel for her, and North, in all this. The problem is not of your creation but you the club stands to lose most from the fallout.

Sonja Hood, is between a rock and a hard place. She was rightly lauded for her role in securing Clarkson as coach, something which few people thought she was capable of

Now she’s forced to either back Clarkson or keep her distance which could create friction should his claims of innocence be vindicated

If he isn’t, the worst that could be said of her is that she took him on face value by believing him. It’d be unfair to criticise her too heavily for that
 
CountryLad said:
One of things that has surprised me in this is that if the Hawks board new of the report 2 weeks ago then why wasn’t Jeff Kennett in the country to front the media?
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mm

is he the president now? he wasnt duirng the period in question. Some bloke (name I can not recall andI didn't know previously) who now works for the AFL was. Lawyers would advise them - say nothing.
 
Barrybran said:
It's possible that Clarko's version and the ABC version are both correct and are a matter of interpretation. I can't see why Sonja Hood would stick her neck out like this if she's quizzed Clarko herself as to do so would be career suicide unless she was confident in Clarko's version of events.
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To some degree, i think both can be a matter of interpretation, but if Clarkson or Fagan told anyone to get an abortion then they are cooked regardless of interpretation.

I've lived in rural NSW for a while and where I lived had a lot of social issues with the indigenous community there, a lot of problems with substance abuse, domestic violence and crime. Everyone has issue with crime but there were substantial youth problems there whilst I was there. I can imagine if any players were exposed to negative social elements it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to protect those players and encouraged them to break up relationships where their partners were abusive.

The ABC article makes it sound like it was all sunshine and rainbows until they went to Hawthorn.

It wouldn't surprise if me if some players had regrets with the choices they made and feel it is easier to blame the football club than to accept they are responsible. However, if there was a pattern with a larger body of players it would be unlikely that it was coincidence.

We can't discount the fact the allegations might be accurate, it would be sad for footy if that was the case. I am sure whatever happens, the AFL will move heaven and earth to buy off the respective parties and try and sweep this under a rug. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more egregious of accusers didn't surface for the investigation.
 

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Keys said:
I feel for her, and North, in all this. The problem is not of your creation but you the club stands to lose most from the fallout.
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We are already paying for it regardless of the outcome, we don't have a coach and he is unlikely to be available until end of November at the earliest. That being said, if there is any substance to the allegations then it is a bigger issue than us.

Keys said:
Sonja Hood, is between a rock and a hard place. She was rightly lauded for her role in securing Clarkson as coach, something which few people thought she was capable of

Now she’s forced to either back Clarkson or keep her distance which could create friction should his claims of innocence be vindicated

If he isn’t, the worst that could be said of her is that she took him on face value by believing him. It’d be unfair to criticise her too heavily for that
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Yeah, I don't think this was entirely her call, it would have had to be approved by the board and the club lawyers.

I guess we will just have to see how this pans out. Gilligan alluded to the fact there were differences between the probe and the ABC article, it will be interesting to see how they differ and what Hawthorn's version of events were.

I think the public can wear some stuff, like attempts to protect players because they are young and leaving family, etc. There is some stuff that is a bridge too far, it is those details which will be significant in this investigation. I am sure a lot of the investigation will revolved around education/cultural awareness, etc but it will be if there are any plausible career-ending things that occurred.
 
While not wanting to write too much about the First Nations players in this instance, I would like to share some other background information that I have encountered, while working in the system underneath the AFL.

I speak only about non indigenous kids, that I was associated with.

Side note, those of you who haven't ever lived in Melbourne, may well be surprised to hear this.
There are very few indigenous people that actually live in the State, let alone the City.
I coached in the feeder competition to the NAB League ( TAC Cup as it was known then ) and I cant remember seeing an indigenous players in any of the teams that I coached against and I never coached one in my time in Melbourne.
The Nab League, however does have a few indigenous kids that play in the competition, they are either kids that have scholarships to some of the Private Schools , or a few that live on the extreme eastern perimeter of the Melbourne Metro area, in general they will be playing either for the Eastern Rangers or the Dandenong Stingrays.

Back to the topic at hand.

I can tell you that the non indigenous kids, at Club Level are certainly given strong advise on lifestyle matters ranging from their friends, their diet and their general attitudes.

Kids that I know, have been told by their Junior and NAB League Clubs, that if they want to seriously be considered for an AFL career that they need to:

  • Get rid of their drop kick mates.
  • Pull their heads in, as massive egos are a real turn off for AFL Clubs, it's a fine line for these kids between confident and being overly cockie.
  • Get off the piss, and or stop smoking weed.
  • Change their diets.
  • Stop being a " know it all smart arse" .... AFL Clubs like kids that are open to learning and they also need the kids to be fast learners.



I know in person, one former Vic Country player that was specifically told by, the General Manager of one NAB League Team, to request a transfer from his local home Club, as it had such a bad reputation, that it would affect his chances of being drafted.

I have also been questioned by AFL Club recruiters about some kids that I coached ( these kids played Vic Metro ).
The range of questions that they asked were almost 100% non football ability questions, ( lets face it if they were interested in them as players they already knew what the footy ability and footy IQ was).
The raft of questions that were asked were pretty invasive:

  • Their family dynamics....parents ....siblings.
  • Opinions of their parents and in some cases the kids from split homes and those who were in blended families.
  • Questions about the kids emotional quirks and their maturity.
  • The kids reactions too positive criticism and hard feed back in relation to coaching.
  • Their standings in the playing group.
  • How hard did they train
The list above is shared to set the tone of the level of background checks that are done on prospective draftees.

On another front.

I haven't coached in the system I mentioned above, for over 15 years but at the time it was well know that AFL Clubs estimated that it cost 200 K - 250 K of investment on average, to scout, develop and find kids from the Nation Wide draft pool, from the complete unknown stage, to being able to stay on an AFL list.

Clubs were very mindful of the significant cost and investment in the entire process from start to finish, to produce an AFL footballer.

Does this all sound like a soulless environment, yes it does and it highlights the hard nosed business like attitudes, that Clubs adapt in their approach to Recruiting and Drafting.

Given what I know about some of the background checks that occur and the player management issue that Clubs face and are concerned about, I must say that sadly, I wasn't surprised that some questionable matters have been raised and that allegations had been made .

However I was deeply shocked at the severity of the subject matter and the brutal invasiveness of its nature...... absolutely gobsmacked.

Saddened
Disappointed
Angry


These are the prevailing emotions, that best sum up how I felt after having read the article about the specific players and their partners that was published.

As a country, it would seem we have learnt little from our past and our checkered history.
 
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Barrybran said:
It's possible that Clarko's version and the ABC version are both correct and are a matter of interpretation. I can't see why Sonja Hood would stick her neck out like this if she's quizzed Clarko herself as to do so would be career suicide unless she was confident in Clarko's version of events.
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It's possible that some of what they said in meetings or house visits was misinterpreted I suppose, but aren't Clarko and Fagan (definitely Fagan is) denying knowledge of some/all of the meetings?

There is a point where evidence stops, and it becomes he-said/she-said, but surely it can be worked out fairly clearly if the reported house visits took place.

I mean if the player was visited, taken away from his house and changed his sim card - that is a fairly strong circumstantial case that some of the alleged statements during the visit may be true.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
shooshka said:
It's possible that some of what they said in meetings or house visits was misinterpreted I suppose, but aren't Clarko and Fagan (definitely Fagan is) denying knowledge of some/all of the meetings?

There is a point where evidence stops, and it becomes he-said/she-said, but surely it can be worked out fairly clearly if the reported house visits took place.

I mean if the player was visited, taken away from his house and changed his sim card - that is a fairly strong circumstantial case that some of the alleged statements during the visit may be true.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app
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I've seen both deny wrongdoing and Fagan deny knowledge of maybe one of the alleged meetings. Reading between the lines I suspect much of what has been said has happened but Clarko/Fagan's view of events may be one of trying to help the players involved.
 
Barrybran said:
I've seen both deny wrongdoing and Fagan deny knowledge of maybe one of the alleged meetings. Reading between the lines I suspect much of what has been said has happened but Clarko/Fagan's view of events may be one of trying to help the players involved.
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I guess the question will be were they trying to help them as people of were they trying to help them be valuable football players?
 


This is a good idea and would be fair. I think the AFL has already rightly confirmed they’ll have an indigenous person on the panel so a past coach/administrator would make sense

Not sure who though. Ross Lyon for the lols maybe
 
southcoast said:
Sheeds? Malthouse? Parkin? Roos? McKenna? Bolton? Hird?

Any other recent sacked coaches?

Be interesting to see who gets this gig.


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Sheeds eliminated due to his pathological hate for all things Hawthorn.
Malthouse old man shouting at clouds.
Parkin too close to Hawthorn.
Bolton too close to Hawthorn.
Roos good suggestion but doubt he would do it.
McKenna not a bad suggestion.

James Hird and an investigation into issue of truth, ethics and integrity, should never be used in the same sentence.
He is a piece of work that should have been banned from ever holding any position in the AFL, ever again.

I suggest that Buckley would be a good choice.
 
Monocle said:
Sheeds eliminated due to his pathological hate for all things Hawthorn.
Malthouse old man shouting at clouds.
Parkin too close to Hawthorn.
Bolton too close to Hawthorn.
Roos good suggestion but doubt he would do it.
McKenna not a bad suggestion.

James Hird and an investigation into issue of truth, ethics and integrity, should never be used in the same sentence.
He is a piece of work that should have been banned from ever holding any position in the AFL, ever again.

I suggest that Buckley would be a good choice.
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It will be interesting to where the spinning wheel stops. Cupboard of ‘candidates’ seems a little light on.

Can’t see a current coach doing the job.

Wonder if they would look at a highly regarded former assistant coach. Got no suggestions but………


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Oppo Camp The Hawthorn Racism Report

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