Oppo Camp The Hawthorn Racism Report

[Ambrose Burnside]

Some of your information is way off.

You new here?

 

[Lazzas]

Hawks may be bound by conf identiality agreements with those they spoke to. Who knows? The AFL havent seen the report but Gil has read it. It is different to the ABC story.

Now the accusers will not speak.

MMMM

This is fertile ground for lawyers making big cash. I suspect the 'investigation ' is a side show to the courts/legal negotiations.

As for the concept of innocence until proven guilty - the damage is done. Thats what we do know.

Gil is the CEO of the AFL of course the AFL has it.

The point is the post started out with misinformation.

 

[ziad]

Gil is the CEO of the AFL of course the AFL has it.

The point is the post started out with misinformation.

was I too subtle? Its a BGOO.

 

[Lazzas]

was I too subtle? Its a BGOO.

No idea what BGOO means at all.

 

[ziad]

No idea what BGOO means at all.

Ironic

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Herald Sun has the report now and have outlined some of the very serious accusations in it.

The leftie witch hunt continues from…the Murdoch press.

 

[DanWCE]

Herald Sun has the report now and have outlined some of the very serious accusations in it.

The leftie witch hunt continues from…the Murdoch press.

Is it behind a paywall? Anything you can share here?

 

[Forward Press]

Is it behind a paywall? Anything you can share here?

The Herald Sun has exclusively obtained the full report titled Cultural Safety Review: Of Past and Present Indigenous Players and Staff of the Hawthorn Football Club.

Clarkson, who was appointed North Melbourne coach in August, has categorically denied any wrongdoing.

On Tuesday, Brisbane coach Fagan said: “I confirm, as I said in my earlier statement, that I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club, and that I intend to defend myself.’’


It is not possible for the Herald Sun to independently verify the claims or assertions made in the report and the paper does not suggest they are completely true and accurate, only that they have been made and are being investigated by various bodies.

The report asserted that the alleged treatment at the club of First Nations players involved “bullying and intimidation tactics … to be used to isolate First Nations players from their families and communities”.

These “aggressive intimidatory actions were undertaken by the most senior of the coaching and management hierarchy’’, wrote the review’s authors, led by project manager Phil Egan.

A Hawks coach, who the Herald Sun has chosen not to name, told the reviewers: “If you dare question their methods, you were frozen out.”

“I knew this day would come,’’ the insider told the authors, according to the report.

The whistleblower coach, who is not Indigenous, “reached out’’ to the authors of the report who up to that point had only interviewed Indigenous people in order to corroborate parts of the testimonies from players and their partners.

“He went on to say Evans, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt operated the football department like The Russian Mafia,” the report said.

The review includes several pages of harrowing testimony from three partners of players and another player.

As was revealed last week, one testimony claimed Clarkson told a player he should terminate their unborn child.

The report asserts that “partners of players who have tabled the serious allegations were in the early stages of pregnancy, with two mothers losing their unborn child during these traumatic events’’.

The testimony of one partner said: “For three grown men (Clarkson, Fagan and Burt) to have walked into my house with no warning, and intimidate, trap and bully me full well knowing I’m carrying a child is just by no means acceptable.

“I was in complete agony after they left, I felt like my world had just come crashing down.

“If anything was to happen to this baby I would have no choice but to hold the Hawthorn Football Club and those three as individuals responsible and it is the last thing on earth I’d ever want to do.’’

A player told the authors: “My partner and daughter were then not allowed to fly over to Melbourne to come and see me until my daughter was four months old, as the club had told my partner and myself that they would be a distraction to my football career.

“When I was delisted, all my past trauma resurfaced, and I have been extremely unwell since. I am now deemed disabled, and I am on disability support pension, and I am also awaiting NDIS funding for a full time support worker to work with me 7 days a week.

“I have had multiple suicide attempts, multiple stays in the mental health unit at the hospital … the trauma that I deal with every day is because of the way the Club treated myself and my family.’’

Another testimony described a Clarkson visit to their home. “Alister (sic) Clarkson came over to visit us one night. I remember his comments as soon as he entered the house because I was so shocked. Clarko – “Oh (player’s name) this house is nice, you have the kids artwork up and it’s nice and clean. You should invite your teammates over for dinner and things. For all they know you’re living in a shack in the desert somewhere”.

‘’I was insulted straight away. It was clear that this Hawthorn official had a view on how Aboriginal people live and he wasn’t shy in voicing it.’’

Burt issued a statement to the Herald Sun on Tuesday evening.

“I wish to categorically deny the conduct attributed to me in the media. It is difficult to comment more fully in circumstances where I have never seen the report despite my lawyer asking the Hawthorn Football Club and the AFL for a copy,” he said.

“I am aggrieved Hawthorn saw fit to commission the report but did not give me the opportunity to respond to the allegations before the report was finalised and provided to the AFL.

“In my time at Hawthorn, the welfare of all players, including first nation players, was always my primary concern. A number of the first nation players lived in my home with my wife and children.

“It is my hope that the investigation to be conducted by the AFL is both fair and transparent, and that I will be given the opportunity to both give my account and test the accounts of those who have apparently made allegations against me.”

Evans was contacted for comment, but did not respond before publication.

 

[JackOutback]

Fagan issued another statement today, through his lawyers. The ABC better be ready to go to court.

I’d put my money on the ABC every day of the week. This story would have been in the works for a while, put under every microscope and run through every lawyer. Fagan is reacting to save his career.

But I’d put more money on it never reaching court.

 

[Biggie]

Damien Barrett says both Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan ‘won’t be back by round 1’

‘Won’t be coaching Round 1’: Hawks investigation tipped to force two clubs into ‘plan B’

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[southcoast]

‘Whistleblower coach’ - situation gets more intriguing as time goes on.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Keys]

I’m a little uncomfortable with the identity of the whistleblower coach being withheld whilst there’s no qualms about naming Clarkson, Fagan, Evans and Burt

 

[Forward Press]

I’m a little uncomfortable with the identity of the whistleblower coach being withheld whilst there’s no qualms about naming Clarkson, Fagan, Evans and Burt

I'm fine. Whistleblowers require the protection of their identity but I do concede it must be balanced with the damage caused to the reputations of the accused when they are named.

 

[Keys]

I'm fine. Whistleblowers require the protection of their identity but I do concede it must be balanced with the damage caused to the reputations of the accused when they are named.

I have a fundamental issue with someone being accused by an anonymous source and then being identified. It denies them natural justice and no matter what happens from here they will never be fully exonerated in some sections of the public even if the investigation concludes they aren’t culpable

This is not to say the whistle blowers should be named, they shouldn’t. But rather the alleged perpetrators should not have been named

I would hate to be accused of something and then have to wait potentially months for my name to be cleared whilst sitting by helplessly whilst it gets trashed based on one side of the story

 

[Forward Press]

I have a fundamental issue with someone being accused by an anonymous source and then being identified. It denies them natural justice and no matter what happens from here they will never be fully exonerated in some sections of the public even if the investigation concludes they aren’t culpable

This is not to say the whistle blowers should be named, they shouldn’t. But rather the alleged perpetrators should not have been named

I would hate to be accused of something and then have to wait potentially months for my name to be cleared whilst sitting by helplessly whilst it gets trashed based on one side of the story

Although I think the balance is fine as it is, I respect your opposing opinion.

 

[UseR2006]

In addition who is leaking this to the Media? Has to be either Club staff or the Complaining Parties.
Whoever is doing so shouldn't be able to hide behind the whistleblower label of anonymity. Not when they don't afford the accused that same courtesy.

At this point it's very likely to end up in courts for defamation and good luck hiding behind anonymity then.

 

[Forward Press]

At this point it's very likely to end up in courts for defamation and good luck hiding behind anonymity then.

Clarkson and Fagan and Burt (and now Evans) aren't going to sue the families making the allegations - they wouldn't have much money and of course the optics would be terrible.

The ABC and NewsCorp are now reporting factual contents of the results of the external investigation. They are clearly confident enough in their sources and evidence and testimony with corroboration that naming the Hawthorn staff will not backfire on them in terms of litigation - this is not mere conjecture or rumour or hearsay any more, otherwise obviously they would not have published.

 

[UseR2006]

Clarkson and Fagan and Burt (and now Evans) aren't going to sue the families making the allegations - they wouldn't have much money and of course the optics would be terrible.

The ABC and NewsCorp are now reporting factual contents of the results of the external investigation. They are clearly confident enough in their sources and evidence and testimony with corroboration that naming the Hawthorn staff will not backfire on them in terms of litigation - this is not mere conjecture or rumour or hearsay any more, otherwise obviously they would not have published.

Why wouldn't you sue the families? you don't need to for money but if clearing your name is important then of course you would sue.
How would the optics be worse? "lets not fight the false accusations of racism and worse because it's bad for my public image"... What nonsense.

Suing the media at the moment would be difficult mostly because all the reporting is blatantly putting in huge qualifying language to say " none of this is FACT"

From the West:
"The report does not say if the claims are true, just that they have been made."
Herald Sun:
"It is not possible for the Herald Sun to independently verify the claims or assertions made in the report and the paper does not suggest they are completely true and accurate, only that they have been made and are being investigated by various bodies."

The ABC is probably most at risk as they haven't qualified any of their reporting in such a way so they are most likely at risk should it come out there is a bunch of false stuff reported.

 

[Seadog]

Why wouldn't you sue the families? you don't need to for money but if clearing your name is important then of course you would sue.
How would the optics be worse? "lets not fight the false accusations of racism and worse because it's bad for my public image"... What nonsense.

Suing the media at the moment would be difficult mostly because all the reporting is blatantly putting in huge qualifying language to say " none of this is FACT"

From the West:
"The report does not say if the claims are true, just that they have been made."
Herald Sun:
"It is not possible for the Herald Sun to independently verify the claims or assertions made in the report and the paper does not suggest they are completely true and accurate, only that they have been made and are being investigated by various bodies."

The ABC is probably most at risk as they haven't qualified any of their reporting in such a way so they are most likely at risk should it come out there is a bunch of false stuff reported.

The ABC aren't at risk for reporting on the contents of an inquiry.
Anyway things aren't looking any better for Hawthorn after this.

‘Bullying, intimidation’ claims allegedly part of Hawthorn report

Top Hawks were allegedly accused of running the football department like a ‘Russian mafia’.

www.theage.com.au

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I have a fundamental issue with someone being accused by an anonymous source and then being identified. It denies them natural justice and no matter what happens from here they will never be fully exonerated in some sections of the public even if the investigation concludes they aren’t culpable

This is not to say the whistle blowers should be named, they shouldn’t. But rather the alleged perpetrators should not have been named

I would hate to be accused of something and then have to wait potentially months for my name to be cleared whilst sitting by helplessly whilst it gets trashed based on one side of the story

The issue with that in this specific scenario is it would have been unbelievably easy to ID Clarkson as one of the accused. Perhaps it casts a net over all the assistant coaches that had been at the program rather than naming Fagan outright (is that better?), but it wouldn’t be difficult to work out Clarko’s role.

Then you’ve got the issues of ‘Clarko has been accused of this’ and the AFL/North having to play the stupid game of pretending we don’t specifically know it’s Clarko, it could have been any coach who was at that club from these years, who has access to these players etc etc, so of course we can’t sanction him or stand him down pending investigation.

Broadly speaking I know what you mean but given the nature of this specific beast I think any attempts at anonymity were pretty much cooked from the start.

 

[Keys]

The issue with that in this specific scenario is it would have been unbelievably easy to ID Clarkson as one of the accused. Perhaps it casts a net over all the assistant coaches that had been at the program rather than naming Fagan outright (is that better?), but it wouldn’t be difficult to work out Clarko’s role.

Then you’ve got the issues of ‘Clarko has been accused of this’ and the AFL/North having to play the stupid game of pretending we don’t specifically know it’s Clarko, it could have been any coach who was at that club from these years, who has access to these players etc etc, so of course we can’t sanction him or stand him down pending investigation.

Broadly speaking I know what you mean but given the nature of this specific beast I think any attempts at anonymity were pretty much cooked from the start.

True, Clarkson would have been easily guessed and all the other assistants would have been under suspicion

So then I’ll ask, are we better off for this information becoming public knowledge?

Hawthorn only received the report 2 weeks ago and forwarded it directly to the AFL as they realised it was serious and beyond their capacity to deal with. And I’m as big a critic of the AFL administration as anyone but it’s not like they’ve been sitting on it hoping it would all blow over

If they’d had it for months without doing anything I could understand someone wanting to expose the story and then it’d be fair enough.

The allegations are such that eventually they should see the light of day but I’d be far more comfortable had that occurred after they’d been fully explored for their veracity

There are two sides to every story and we’ve only had one, albeit from three separate people, which has now tarnished the previously unsullied reputations of now four men

Does our right to know trump their right to something approaching natural justice. It’s a big price to pay for those men when you consider that if the allegations are true then they may well have been appropriately dealt with in due course

 

[KBLT]

Herald Sun has the report now and have outlined some of the very serious accusations in it.

The leftie witch hunt continues from…the Murdoch press.

Damn liberals


wait

 

[ziad]

True, Clarkson would have been easily guessed and all the other assistants would have been under suspicion

So then I’ll ask, are we better off for this information becoming public knowledge?

Hawthorn only received the report 2 weeks ago and forwarded it directly to the AFL as they realised it was serious and beyond their capacity to deal with. And I’m as big a critic of the AFL administration as anyone but it’s not like they’ve been sitting on it hoping it would all blow over

If they’d had it for months without doing anything I could understand someone wanting to expose the story and then it’d be fair enough.

The allegations are such that eventually they should see the light of day but I’d be far more comfortable had that occurred after they’d been fully explored for their veracity

There are two sides to every story and we’ve only had one, albeit from three separate people, which has now tarnished the previously unsullied reputations of now four men

Does our right to know trump their right to something approaching natural justice. It’s a big price to pay for those men when you consider that if the allegations are true then they may well have been appropriately dealt with in due course

Would we rather a guilty man walk free or punish an inocent man? The only winner are lawyers. Both coaches are mud regardless of later outcomes, as the Hawks are seen as culpable and the AFL will enquire. The AFL brand is damaged significantly. The only independance in the enquirey is from the Hawks who are linked to the AFL so its that that independent. The 'families' are unknown and will likely stay that way.

 

[FKASC]

The 'families' are unknown and will likely stay that way.

If the coaches are mud imagine how ****ed the families would be once the pitchforks came out for them.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Imagine if the whistleblower coach was Simmo