Politics The Immigration Debate

[geelong_crazy26]

Why are rich chinese buying up homes here?

are they migrants and how many of them are there ? we also don't really need more investment in our property market, we need more investment in business creating more jobs and higher wages.

Most of the 300,000 migrants are low skilled workers with limited amounts of capital.

Australia is close too if not the most expensive place in the world to do business in when you factor in taxes, wages, red tape and energy costs.

 

[Seeds]

are they migrants and how many of them are there ? we also don't really need more investment in our property market, we need more investment in business creating more jobs and higher wages.

Most of the 300,000 migrants are low skilled workers with limited amounts of capital.

Australia is close too if not the most expensive place in the world to do business in when you factor in taxes, wages, red tape and energy costs.

Try doing business in africa or india. The costs there are astounding.

Im surprised you would want to attract capital given it would make your family worse off. If i was a lefty i would say good for you for caring more about others than yourself.

 

[Admiral Byng]

The real crux of the problem is how we do urban development, immigration is a secondary thing that can make a bad situation worse.

The problem is having mega-cities. We have two of them, that have largely grown organically without any real long term vision or planning, and treating each city as one functioning entity. The problem is moving people around, especially in having low and medium paid workers living on the outer fringes of the metro area and doing the long commute to and from work.

The solutions lie in either decentralising the big cities into a number of functionally distinct cities, or investing heavily in ultra-modern high tech rapid transport a generation ahead of conventional heavy urban rail.

I've heard people talking about the half-hour city, where everyone lives within half an hour of their work. Even if we aim for a 1 hour city it will require a huge investment. That is, people should be able to commute door-to-door from home to work within 1 hour. If we stay on the model of lower paid workers living on the fringes of the cities it probably means that traditional heavy urban rail is inadequate. It may require a complete restructure with faster speeds and fewer stops as the backbone of the system, with a system of light rail/tram/buses providing a feeder service to the major stations on the fast route.

In going down the decentralsing route, there needs to be a way found for low and medium paid workers to live closer to work. If you take Sydney for example and split it into several functional zones like Harbourside, Parramatta, North coast etc, you need to find a way for someone who works in Harbourside to live within that region an hour (ideally half an hour) away of their place of work. That could get really tricky.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Try doing business in africa or india. The costs there are astounding.

Im surprised you would want to attract capital given it would make your family worse off. If i was a lefty i would say good for you for caring more about others than yourself.

I am not a globalist, that is a left wing ideology. I am a nationalist who believes in putting Australian citizens first, other governments can focus on there citizens.

 

[Seeds]

I am not a globalist, that is a left wing ideology. I am a nationalist who believes in putting Australian citizens first, other governments can focus on there citizens.

A nationalist is someone who makes everyone worse off including themselves. A nationalist increases the likelihood of war by creating and us vs them mentality between countries and increasing the incentives of resource accumulation from war. A nationalist increases prices of production by not enabling the gains from trade and technology transfer. Nationalism is a socialist ideology that doesnt understand the benefit of the capitalist system. Look at who all the great nationalists are. Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Putin. Some company you have there.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

A nationalist is someone who makes everyone worse off including themselves. A nationalist increases the likelihood of war by creating and us vs them mentality between countries and increasing the incentives of resource accumulation from war. A nationalist increases prices of production by not enabling the gains from trade and technology transfer. Nationalism is a socialist ideology that doesnt understand the benefit of the capitalist system. Look at who all the great nationalists are. Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Putin. Some company you have there.

Those people you named are all socialist, lets be clear when the left advocate for large numbers of immigrants to come in they don't expect them to stand on their own 2 feet but rather we spend massive amounts of taxpayer money on them via welfare, education and healthcare. They than want most of the burden for these costs placed on the top 10% of income earners, this is socialism.

Nothing wrong with a government focusing on looking after its own people first and securing its borders so it has an immigration program that keeps us safe and the economy strong. Fact is western civilisation has produced the best quality of life that any civilisation has ever seen, if people come to a western civilisation they need to be able to fit into life in a western nation and not take as backwards.

A capitalist approach would mean we select people based on merit that will make us better off.

 

[Malifice]

Immigration policy doesn't exist to make you feel better about yourself. Can I suggest .. sit ups? learning to cook? a nice walk?

What are you on about?

My point was Australia can afford to help out genuine Asylum seekers and Refugees (in addtion to a skilled migration scheme).

We all share the same planet mate, and they're people too. Just because they might have different colored skin doesnt make them any less human, or in need of any less help or protection.

 

[Seeds]

Those people you named are all socialist, lets be clear when the left advocate for large numbers of immigrants to come in they don't expect them to stand on their own 2 feet but rather we spend massive amounts of taxpayer money on them via welfare, education and healthcare. They than want most of the burden for these costs placed on the top 10% of income earners, this is socialism.

Nothing wrong with a government focusing on looking after its own people first and securing its borders so it has an immigration program that keeps us safe and the economy strong. Fact is western civilisation has produced the best quality of life that any civilisation has ever seen, if people come to a western civilisation they need to be able to fit into life in a western nation and not take as backwards.

A capitalist approach would mean we select people based on merit that will make us better off.

Um i think you will find its the conservatives who want large number of unskilled immigrants not the left. Unskilled workers lead to lower labour costs and higher profits. The unions hate immigrants cos they lead to lower wages. The left like refugees but refugees are such a small part of overall immigrants that you can simultaneously slash immigration and massively boost refugees at the same time. Your immigration policies are leftist.

All your arguments in favour of nationalism seem to be solely around immigration. Nationalism is far more than that. Its about trade, capital transfer and the embrace of facism. All those nationalists are leftists because nationalists are anti capitalism

 

[Seeds]

What are you on about?

My point was Australia can afford to help out genuine Asylum seekers and Refugees (in addtion to a skilled migration scheme).

We all share the same planet mate, and they're people too. Just because they might have different colored skin doesnt make them any less human, or in need of any less help or protection.

Why skilled migration? Wouldnt it be better to keep the skilled jobs for ourselves and use immigrants to do the jobs we dont want instead?

 

[Admiral Byng]

Why skilled migration? Wouldnt it be better to keep the skilled jobs for ourselves and use immigrants to do the jobs we dont want instead?

wait, that would require investing in education and training for our own young people...?

 

[parsons nose]

Why skilled migration? Wouldnt it be better to keep the skilled jobs for ourselves and use immigrants to do the jobs we dont want instead?

Its social capital. The idea that attracting the brightest minds grows the economy.

 

[Malifice]

Why skilled migration? Wouldnt it be better to keep the skilled jobs for ourselves and use immigrants to do the jobs we dont want instead?

Im all for borders being as open as they can be. I ****ing hate having to get a Visa when I travel. We all share the same planet, why we need stupid fictional dotted lines on a map getting in the way I have never understood.

As for skilled migration, I'm down with it. At least you know they're going to be working (and thus getting taxed) so they're contributing. And it's not about 'us' and 'them' (or at least it shouldnt be). A job should be open to any applicant, anywhere (assuming they're prepared to move etc). Best person for the job and all that.

 

[its free real estate]

Im all for borders being as open as they can be. I ******* hate having to get a Visa when I travel. We all share the same planet, why we need stupid fictional dotted lines on a map getting in the way I have never understood.

Because some people will contribute less to a polity than others, and will take advantage of kindness.

Your small inconvenience for a gadabout lifestyle is immaterial.

 

[Seeds]

Its social capital. The idea that attracting the brightest minds grows the economy.

True for scientists and capital owners. Not really the case for doctor and lawyers though. There is only a limited amount of them we want. Although i suppose you could argue that hiring more doctors from overseas would push down doctors wages and could push more intelligent people into science and becoming entrepreneurs. It could equally push them into not going to uni and just being an unskilled worker instead though.

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

What are you on about?

My point was Australia can afford to help out genuine Asylum seekers and Refugees (in addtion to a skilled migration scheme).

We all share the same planet mate, and they're people too. Just because they might have different colored skin doesnt make them any less human, or in need of any less help or protection.

I don't care what unskilled migrants or people learning to cut hair on a student visa look like - I am more concerned on the effect they have on the wages and living standards on the people already here.

You don't honesty believe that these high levels of immigration are mandated by the Labor and Liberal uniparty because they like blackfellas and authentic kebabs do you?

 

[Seeds]

Because some people will contribute less to a polity than others, and will take advantage of kindness.

Your small inconvenience for a gadabout lifestyle is immaterial.

This is an issue today. Not an issue once a global government is achieved however as living standards and rights will be similar everywhere.

 

[its free real estate]

This is an issue today. Not an issue once a global government is achieved however as living standards and rights will be similar everywhere.

When will that be?

 

[Seeds]

I don't care what unskilled migrants or people learning to cut hair on a student visa look like - I am more concerned on the effect they have on the wages and living standards on the people already here.

You don't honesty believe that these high levels of immigration are mandated by the Labor and Liberal uniparty because they like blackfellas and authentic kebabs do you?

I hope unskilled wages fall. Why should unskilled workers effectively get a subsidy due to borders. It makes skilled workers, capital owners and people born in other countries unjustly worse off. Its time this unjustice ends.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Um i think you will find its the conservatives who want large number of unskilled immigrants not the left. Unskilled workers lead to lower labour costs and higher profits. The unions hate immigrants cos they lead to lower wages. The left like refugees but refugees are such a small part of overall immigrants that you can simultaneously slash immigration and massively boost refugees at the same time. Your immigration policies are leftist.

All your arguments in favour of nationalism seem to be solely around immigration. Nationalism is far more than that. Its about trade, capital transfer and the embrace of facism. All those nationalists are leftists because nationalists are anti capitalism

The liberal party certainly do want high levels of immigrants for low wages, conservatives seem to recently be talking about the need to cut back on immigration.

Labour also wants high level of immigration because in the age of identity politics it means more votes eventually for them. They cant just depend on the unions and blue collar workers anymore. The CFMEU loves immigration because it means more homes.

Greens and the far left of Labour want high levels of immigration because they believe that by brining in large numbers of people who don't share western values that they can tear down western civilisation.

I think the term nationalism has a different meaning than it did 50 years ago. Over the past 10 year we have seen this new anti-western grievance culture from the left.

 

[its free real estate]

I hope unskilled wages fall. Why should unskilled workers effectively get a subsidy due to borders. It makes skilled workers, capital owners and people born in other countries unjustly worse off. Its time this unjustice ends.

What makes you think you’re a skilled worker?

 

[Seeds]

When will that be?

Once it happens no one will care how long it took.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I hope unskilled wages fall. Why should unskilled workers effectively get a subsidy due to borders. It makes skilled workers, capital owners and people born in other countries unjustly worse off. Its time this unjustice ends.

Do you support minimum wages and award rates ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

What are you on about?

My point was Australia can afford to help out genuine Asylum seekers and Refugees (in addtion to a skilled migration scheme).

We all share the same planet mate, and they're people too. Just because they might have different colored skin doesnt make them any less human, or in need of any less help or protection.

This is where people like trump can win over blue collar people from the left. The left cant look after high levels of immigrants and the working class at the same time, it is 1 or the other not both.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Once it happens no one will care how long it took.

Not a practical reality, the idea of countries like the US, China and Russia all coming under 1 government is too stupid for words.

 

[Seeds]

What makes you think you’re a skilled worker?

Went to uni and paid 400 thousand dollars a year in the field i studied in. I could just be incredibly lucky and have great social networks although given my networking ability sucks cos Im a di** to people in real life its unlikely.