Politics The Immigration Debate

[Taylor]

People used to say that about the notions of countries. Just a far off dream.

I think there is too much diversity for a single government, but that is ideological from me because I believe the more you focus power the more you discard the margins to reinforce the majority.

Remember Yugoslavia?

A world government, representative democracy, would have Israel bounced and they would immediately dispute the government's authority over them and claim sovereignty backed by the power of their weapons.

 

[its free real estate]

Why? I already get paid enough.

By Deliveroo?

 

[Seeds]

By Deliveroo?

Sorry im not familiar with a lot of australian slang.

 

[Seeds]

I think there is too much diversity for a single government, but that is ideological from me because I believe the more you focus power the more you discard the margins to reinforce the majority.

Remember Yugoslavia?

A world government, representative democracy, would have Israel bounced and they would immediately dispute the government's authority over them and claim sovereignty backed by the power of their weapons.

Like with most western countries, a world government wont just pop out of thin air. It will be very gradual until all the issues no longer become issues. The world is already on this path to a world government. It could be stopped by the likes of China, Russia and populists but right now we are on the path. The formation of multilateral rules of engagement between countries was the very first step. It will likely slowly happen over hundreds of years. Problems like isreal will no longer be problems when it does eventually happen.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Like with most western countries, a world government wont just pop out of thin air. It will be very gradual until all the issues no longer become issues. The world is already on this path to a world government. It could be stopped by the likes of China, Russia and populists but right now we are on the path. The formation of multilateral rules of engagement between countries was the very first step. It will likely slowly happen over hundreds of years. Problems like isreal will no longer be problems when it does eventually happen.

Nah. Large powers will never give up the option of resorting to force if they don't get their own way. Small and medium powers might be attracted to it but it is wholly unattractive to large powers or anyone else with ambitions in that direction.

Only if there is some key economic resource (like a future alternative for fossil fuel oil) that gets developed by and monopolised by a group of small and medium powers that can hold the larger powers to ransom will we ever get close. but chances are the larger powers will probably be the ones who invent and control it anyway and it will just increase their position.

 

[parsons nose]

Ok do you understand what real incomes mean? Its income adjusted for the cost of living. Developed economy taxi drivers real incomes are multiple times higher than in developing economies. Their lives are far better from an economic standpoint. Even more so when you add on top the better government services available in developed economies.

Anecdotally? Using your taxi driver example, I have grave doubts any taxi driver would consider his lot better than the generation of taxi drivers that went before him. Deregulation has seen to that.

 

[Taylor]

Like with most western countries, a world government wont just pop out of thin air. It will be very gradual until all the issues no longer become issues. The world is already on this path to a world government. It could be stopped by the likes of China, Russia and populists but right now we are on the path. The formation of multilateral rules of engagement between countries was the very first step. It will likely slowly happen over hundreds of years. Problems like isreal will no longer be problems when it does eventually happen.

What if those populists winning elections are a result of populations not wanting to be homogenized?

I think the only thing that will unite the planet is a new party coming onto the scene and threatening us all, an intelligent alien race who we can defeat but only as a united planet sort of thing. Something to hate more than we hate each other.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Just a far left dream not a reality.

Having high levels of imigration or a global governent means you change western civilsation into something backwards which is good for no one rich or poor. I as a wealthy person understand this.

The right want to conserve western civilisation while the left want to tear it down.

Could you please sight some examples of the big bad left wing hippies hating and trying to end western civilisation?
I see crazy people like yourself and Fraser Anningon twitter say this all the time.
But I’ve never seen any actual examples or evidence to support it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Like with most western countries, a world government wont just pop out of thin air. It will be very gradual until all the issues no longer become issues. The world is already on this path to a world government. It could be stopped by the likes of China, Russia and populists but right now we are on the path. The formation of multilateral rules of engagement between countries was the very first step. It will likely slowly happen over hundreds of years. Problems like isreal will no longer be problems when it does eventually happen.

Countries working together and coming up with rules of engagement is very different to a global government. The UN is more of a forum not a global government, the US, China and Russia do almost whatever they want.

Can you explain what a global government would look like ? how is it elected ? what authority does it have ? where is it based ? what type of structure does it take ?

 

[Seeds]

What if those populists winning elections are a result of populations not wanting to be homogenized?

I think the only thing that will unite the planet is a new party coming onto the scene and threatening us all, an intelligent alien race who we can defeat but only as a united planet sort of thing. Something to hate more than we hate each other.

Populations are rejecting the corporatisation of democracy, corporatisation of trade agreements and lack of assimilation of immigrants. Particularly islamic immigrants. Part of the fear of immigrants is also based on false news not accurate news. I agree to a large degree with a lot of these reasons. But im still very much pro globalization. Some adjustments need to be made to the way it is being done. Not a complete rejection of it. The benefits are clear and undisputable.

 

[Taylor]

Populations are rejecting the corporatisation of democracy, corporatisation of trade agreements and lack of assimilation of immigrants. Particularly islamic immigrants. Part of the fear of immigrants is also based on false news not accurate news. I agree to a large degree with a lot of these reasons. But im still very much pro globalization. Some adjustments need to be made to the way it is being done. Not a complete rejection of it. The benefits are clear and undisputable.

If there was a means of polling the entire world population asking them if we should have equal wealth and way of life, with a description of what it meant for them - I think you'd have a massive support in voting numbers for that.

That's the attraction of socialism.

People will protect what they have, which is why I think they won't go for a world government that has an equal value for each vote. The West currently hold the power and the wealth, when those without the wealth come for it I expect there to be resistance.

I think people in the west are happy for charity until it takes the meal out of their children's tummy.

 

[its free real estate]

What would a one world government look like? A liberal democracy, a caliphate, communism, or something else?

 

[Seeds]

If there was a means of polling the entire world population asking them if we should have equal wealth and way of life, with a description of what it meant for them - I think you'd have a massive support in voting numbers for that.

That's the attraction of socialism.

People will protect what they have, which is why I think they won't go for a world government that has an equal value for each vote. The West currently hold the power and the wealth, when those without the wealth come for it I expect there to be resistance.

I think people in the west are happy for charity until it takes the meal out of their children's tummy.

Um that is an incredible leading question. Ofcourse if you frame it like that everyone will cheer for socialism. Frame it as a system where those who work harder will have to subsidise those who dont, the growth in global wealth will come to a screaming halt, people will be constrained in what they are allowed to produce and the price they can sell it for and resources will be so poorly allocated that you will have to stand in lines to get bread and almost no one will vote for it.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I was just hunting around for facts and figures. Seems most years we don't reach the cap of 190,000 permanent visa places anyway, and of those that are granted about half of them are already here living on a temporary visa.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Could you please sight some examples of the big bad left wing hippies hating and trying to end western civilisation?
I see crazy people like yourself and Fraser Anningon twitter say this all the time.
But I’ve never seen any actual examples or evidence to support it.

Nearly all the key pillars of western society are under attack

1.preaching in schools and university western society has a shameful history mostly from imperialism.

2.Attacks on christanity, for example we have seen misleading stories from the ABC, the greens want the lords prayer removed and even on this forum you see the constant putdown of christanity.

3.Open borders with high levels of immigrants who refuse to embrace and adapt to western culture.

4.Constantly siding with Palestine and condemning Israel every time they try to defend themselves.

5.Fighting against cheap and reliable energy in the name of climate change.

6. The idea that gender is not natural but a social construct.

7. Attacking nearly all national symbols.for example change the day.

8.the constant obssesion with white male privilage.

9.the push for more and more global institutes with more power.

10. Using pc to sanitize humour and ordinary language often found un western nations.

11. Trying to cut back on military expenditure.

I am sure there are many more.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Nearly all the key pillars of western society are under attack

1.preaching in schools and university western society has a shameful history mostly from imperialism.

2.Attacks on christanity, for example we have seen misleading stories from the ABC, the greens want the lords prayer removed and even on this forum you see the constant putdown of christanity.

3.Open borders with high levels of immigrants who refuse to embrace and adapt to western culture.

4.Constantly siding with Palestine and condemning Israel every time they try to defend themselves.

5.Fighting against cheap and reliable energy in the name of climate change.

6. The idea that gender is not natural but a social construct.

7. Attacking nearly all national symbols.for example change the day.

8.the constant obssesion with white male privilage.

9.the push for more and more global institutes with more power.

10. Using pc to sanitize humour and ordinary language often found un western nations.

11. Trying to cut back on military expenditure.

I am sure there are many more.

None of these things are close to being the pillars of western civilisation.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Nearly all the key pillars of western society are under attack

1.preaching in schools and university western society has a shameful history mostly from imperialism.

2.Attacks on christanity, for example we have seen misleading stories from the ABC, the greens want the lords prayer removed and even on this forum you see the constant putdown of christanity.

3.Open borders with high levels of immigrants who refuse to embrace and adapt to western culture.

4.Constantly siding with Palestine and condemning Israel every time they try to defend themselves.

5.Fighting against cheap and reliable energy in the name of climate change.

6. The idea that gender is not natural but a social construct.

7. Attacking nearly all national symbols.for example change the day.

8.the constant obssesion with white male privilage.

9.the push for more and more global institutes with more power.

10. Using pc to sanitize humour and ordinary language often found un western nations.

11. Trying to cut back on military expenditure.

I am sure there are many more.

I appreciate you answering, but just as I expected it’s just unhinged ranting that made me laugh.

By the way an independent review just came out that shows renewable energy is not only better for the environment but cheaper as well.

 

[Taylor]

Um that is an incredible leading question. Ofcourse if you frame it like that everyone will cheer for socialism. Frame it as a system where those who work harder will have to subsidise those who dont, the growth in global wealth will come to a screaming halt, people will be constrained in what they are allowed to produce and the price they can sell it for and resources will be so poorly allocated that you will have to stand in lines to get bread and almost no one will vote for it.

I think it represents the reality of the situation. With a representative government of the world there would be a movement to gain power by gathering the support of all those who feel lesser than, they would sweep into power on the back of billions of poor votes and begin their work for a standard level of lifestyle - selling the dream of the west to the developing and third world but in reality the west is supported by the abundance of cheap work performed in the developing world and we can't support our own lifestyles paying everyone the same let alone raise them up to our level.

The global government would absolutely try, because it's an easy vote winner and someone will mobilise the poor for their own means very quickly.

But on the bright side it will make those who feel oppressed and poor in the west really angry when they are lined up against the wall with everyone else and that will give me some solace.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

None of these things are close to being the pillars of western civilisation.

What rubbish mate. Christianity was the foundation for western society. Gender is a key pillar for western society as it underpins our relationships with each other. Borders are a key pillar as they keep out those who dont fit in with western culture.

I could go on, while a few are not pillars without most of what i listed western civilisation would not exist.

None the less can you let me know what you consider pillars of western society because i can promise you the left is out to destroy them.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I appreciate you answering, but just as I expected it’s just unhinged ranting that made me laugh.

By the way an independent review just came out that shows renewable energy is not only better for the environment but cheaper as well.

Yeah sure it was independent, notice how south australia had close to the worlds highest electricity costs and had blackout after blackout ?

I mean for goodness sakes they couldnt even keep the power on in hospitals because renewables are so unreliable.

Get rid of subsidise on renewables and taxes on coal and lets see what happens

 

[Admiral Byng]

What rubbish mate. Christianity was the foundation for western society. Gender is a key pillar for western society as it underpins our relationships with each other. Borders are a key pillar as they keep out those who dont fit in with western culture.

I could go on, while a few are not pillars without most of what i listed western civilisation would not exist.

None the less can you let me know what you consider pillars of western society because i can promise you the left is out to destroy them.

Nah. I trace Western Civilisation back to ancient Greece and then the empire of Rome. They were pagan originally and only transitioned to Christianity in the late Roman period. I see our current time as being another transition: to a post-Christian society. All of the things that have brought this about have sprung up and been developed within western civilisation itself, not the result of some dominant foreign imposition. Secularism, rational thought, democracy, freedom of expression, scientific inquiry, the printing press and the distribution of knowledge, and the democratisation of learning - all part of western civilisation. I don't think gender issues are that important, it is an issue on the margins, as are most of your other gripes. They are not the end of civilisation, merely the end of Christianity. Civlisation managed quite well enough before it, and will manage quite well enough after it.

 

[its free real estate]

Nah. I trace Western Civilisation back to ancient Greece and then the empire of Rome. They were pagan originally and only transitioned to Christianity in the late Roman period. I see our current time as being another transition: to a post-Christian society. All of the things that have brought this about have sprung up and been developed within western civilisation itself, not the result of some dominant foreign imposition. Secularism, rational thought, democracy, freedom of expression, scientific inquiry, the printing press and the distribution of knowledge, and the democratisation of learning - all part of western civilisation. I don't think gender issues are that important, it is an issue on the margins, as are most of your other gripes. They are not the end of civilisation, merely the end of Christianity. Civlisation managed quite well enough before it, and will manage quite well enough after it.

Except secular societies seem to undergo demographic collapse.

 

[Proud SJW]

What would a one world government look like? A liberal democracy, a caliphate, communism, or something else?

That's what all the fighting is about. Trying to figure that out.
There is less and less fighting every year, though.

Is that a good or a bad thing?

 

[nut]

You got to laugh at “my parents arrived with nothing and have never asked for a hand out....the immigrants of today just come here for hand outs”.

Well my father came here in 1967, was handed out free flights, free accommodation at Benagilla, free train rides to look for work. zero unemployment level and cheap housing.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Except secular societies seem to undergo demographic collapse.

If you're talking about low birth rates and an aging population, all advanced industrialised societies seem to have this problem, not just the secular ones. One of the reasons why they resort to immigration of young adults who can start working and paying taxes immediately.