The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[dogwatch]

How do you feel about the backflip on the immunity issue ?

Should Biden now have the 6 judges arrested ?

Because I know who would if ever he needs to .

I know you're not literally proposing it KH (at least I hope you're not) but if Biden did that, the public response would make the storming of the Capitol look like a kid's birthday party. It'd be close to a second civil war.

 

[bresker]

Australians look to America for many obvious and not so obvious reasons. What happens in the US is often important to us. So this debate here is very relevant to Australia. The US is still the cultural capital of the world. Whether we personally like that culture sometimes or not. I don’t listen to too much American music or Hollywood movies and I hate their sports especially their sports stars. But I can’t help knowing about them.
The ‘woke’ movement is brought to us from the US, especially their colleges and quickly infiltrates here. We can all remember how we weren’t allowed to socialise but that was thrown out by the BLM protestors in one week. The internet and tech giants are all located there. What happens there matters to us.
But we also get the good from there too. Even though we don’t have those important democratic ideals enshrined in our constitution we still are able to leverage off the ideas of ‘freedom of speech, press, religion, body, association etc’ because they are the highest ideals and we demand them philosophically too.
We actually took ideas from the US constitution when setting up our own. Because we are also a federation of states, we don’t have an inherited House of Lords we have a Senate and each state has the same number of members regardless of their size and then proportional representation in the House of Representatives, even the same names as US use.
As many have mentioned here we don’t seem to have the extremes they have and should use them as a warning. And a wise people have often said it is imperative the ‘left’ call out the far left and all the silly woke nonsense just as the ‘right’ call out the far right. Sometimes people are so entrenched in their politics that anything to one side of them is extreme, but usually the people here in Australia bring that into a real perspective.

Facebook, Apple, YouTube and Google are American products. Forget American TV and movies. Kids don't watch TV any more.

The ' Bad Actors' spreading disinformation might come from anywhere in the world, but they're using US products.

Who knows what's coming next.

 

[King Harold]

I know you're not literally proposing it KH (at least I hope you're not) but if Biden did that, the public response would make the storming of the Capitol look like a kid's birthday party. It'd be close to a second civil war.

No im not,
But let’s not misunderstand, this is a ruling specific to Trump.
They have never had to consider this before. This new ruling may well have got Nixon off ?
The world ,including those justices ,know he is guilty of all the crimes he has been charged with.

My point is , given the complete immunity for so called official Presidential duties, could anybody trust a morally bankrupt like Trump not to abuse this power.

The beauty of him is ,he tells you who he is.
The irony is his supporters everywhere don’t believe he is that person.

 

[darklake]

How long is a piece of string? 2 ways, one voluntary and one involuntary. They choose to retire or they die.

Internet states congress has the power to expand or reduce the members of the Supreme Court, and has done so in the past.

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

You've answered your own question.



Yes. He's talked out of both sides of his mouth by claiming it's a states rights issue. Safe in the knowledge that the Supreme Court that he and Mitch McConnell crookedly had a hand in stacking nullified Roe V Wade and has and will continue to erode the choices of women when it comes to their reproductive rights.



What's the alternative? Let the aggressor negotiate from a position of strength and use the current points of contact as the basis of any new border. Coincidentally the stance of both Putin and Trump. All this does is freeze the conflict until Russia can rebuild its military until it's ready for another crack at expanding Russias borders back to Imperial times. Or the US can withdraw its support and allow the same outcome to unfold, just much more rapidly. Combined with the redistribution of Russian overseas assets .Of course the Ukrainian people will pick up the tab for much of the time expired or old equipment that is being sent to them. However I suspect the choice between that and becoming a vassal state to a country that is prepared to use its citizens lives in a meat grinder as Russia so readily does is an easy choice to make.



Of course. These are the same people who moan about their taxes being used on anything that isn't of direct benefit to them. Until they need that thing, then they want the gold plated version at any cost.

You know. Unthinking Morons.



Should it happen Justices Alito and Thomas have been making noises about cashing out (in Thomas' case quite literally) soon after Trumps re-election. Opening up the seats to people who will hold them for 40+ years.

Its a dog that cannot be un****ed now.



...He's not one for sharing the spotlight with anybody.

I just thought I would chime in because I don't think the shove video really evidences the point you are making about his character.

With the "shove" video, there is a bit of context. It was a NATO related meeting and all the European leaders, the European media, diplomats, etc were ropeable that Trump was telling them they had to increase their NATO contributions to meet agreed levels. They sought to snub him in various ways, including shunting him down the back and off to the side. Usually, the US President is front and centre and generally feted. The Euro leaders queue up for photo ops with the president and his wife and flatter or press them to grease the funding wheels from the USA. But Trump had gone to the US Election with a very public policy of making Europe pay more of NATO, making him persona non grata.

 

[Next Waiting]

Internet states congress has the power to expand or reduce the members of the Supreme Court, and has done so in the past.

Found this

https://www.markey.senate.gov/news/...macy-alongside-sen-smith-reps-bush-and-schiff


Didn't know that. Always assumed 9. Would require Congress and then there's the senate confirmation process.

Can dream I suppose. The Dems by some miracle win the presidency and also control the congress and senate and increase the SC judges to lucky 13, adding 4 Dem endorsed judges to the 3 already there.

And then, for the good of their country, they dismantle the whole system like turkeys voting for an early Christmas.

 

[StringyDog]

Internet states congress has the power to expand or reduce the members of the Supreme Court, and has done so in the past.

Needs 60 vote majority which will never happen in current political state

 

[Next Waiting]

Needs 60 vote majority which will never happen in current political state

Just as well because it could work the other way. A 60 vote majority to the Republicans and they could do the same and further increase their majority, or possibly worse, reduce it to 5 and eliminate completely any democratic influence and then maintain that in perpetuity with strategic resignations under Republican Presidents.

 

[darklake]

GLad we're under the Westminster system tbh.. for the most part.

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

Joe Biden has beens so poorly treated by his own party and their media allies since the debate, I think he will dig his heels in and won't budge at all. Stupid tactic on their part to pile in on him like that and they appear oblivious to the fact.

 

[BrisDog]

Unfortunately there are a couple of doggies fans who are not well. Intellectually, morally etc.

 

[dogwatch]

GLad we're under the Westminster system tbh.. for the most part.

Maybe.

The concern is that Trump and his backers have shown the world how it's done.

Be divisive. Create fear and alarm and position yourself as the saviour. Tell lies and spin whatever narrative works (all politicians tell fibs but as the saying goes "the bigger the lie the more likely people are to swallow it"). Flat out deny any allegations no matter how much evidence there is. Use whatever dirty tricks and underhand measures you can muster - morality doesn't come into it. It's all about empowering and enriching you and your clique but make people believe you are concerned about them. Tell them what they want to hear - promise whatever you want and don't worry about ever fulfilling the promise. You can always blame somebody else for it not happening. Step outside political convention. Do and say things so outrageous that people gasp in disbelief but are too stunned to counter them. Shut down/victimise dissenting voices and any exposure of the facts (FOI, investigative media, whistleblowers, auditors, prosecutors). Seek vicious retribution on anyone standing in your way. Listen only to your sponsors and corporate backers. Surround yourself with sycophants and coat-tail riders. The list goes on.

The Westminster system is not impervious to any of this. We have seen a good deal of it in Australia already.

The world has seen how Trump can make this work in what was supposed to be the model of a robust modern democracy. So he now has his imitators all over the world. Brazil. Hungary. Probably France where the Far Right is on the cusp of seizing power. Farage in the UK. Even Dutton is now trying to replicate the destructive techniques that worked so well for Trump.

The Westminster system does have a few protections not available under the US system but we are still susceptible to most of what we have witnessed since 2016 in the USA.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Obama and the dems did not fight hard enough when McConnell refused to even acknowledge the Garland nomination in 2016. Whatever political persuasion, this was an egregious and unconstitutional stand by the GOP. Obama needed to force the vote…..specify a reasonable timeframe on the confirmation hearing, with failure to proceed to a vote by this deadline resulting in Garland’s presumptive confirmation. If it gets to a vote it’s likely the GOP endorse or some republicans cross the aisle and he’s confirmed. A ‘no’ vote likely provokes ‘non-voters’ into a Democratic win in the presidential and senate elections later that year.

Alas, they all thought Hillary was unbeatable and deferred to a cavalier, we’ll work it out later approach. Same cavalier, she’ll be right approach RBG took by not retiring her-post during Obama’s final term (well north of 80yo mind you) rather than risking what eventually transpired.

 

[Sentinel]

Interesting to see who the bookies now have as 2nd favourite to win office:

 

[Doggy Dan]

How long is a piece of string? 2 ways, one voluntary and one involuntary. They choose to retire or they die.

Well there is a 3rd. They can be impeached and removed……..but again, requires 60 senate votes and won’t be happening.

 

[Pugz89]

How do you feel about the backflip on the immunity issue ?

Should Biden now have the 6 judges arrested ?

Because I know who would if ever he needs to .

I don't know what the immunity issue is.

 

[King Harold]

I don't know what the immunity issue is.

Ok , fairly consequential ruling , but here’s the abbreviated version.
A President is now immune from ANY CRIMINAL ACT if it is “deemed a part of his duty as President “
So no one else in the country is immune from prosecution for crime except now for whoever is President.
USA effectively now has a monarch.

The Supreme Court has not needed to consider this issue in over 200 years , I wonder why now ?

But make no mistake this corrupt court only has one guy in mind to protect !
Look how difficult it is to litigate all his obvious crimes now and how long it takes.
This ruling , I believe will shut down or indefinitely delay almost all of Trumps current criminal woes

You can come up with a million scenarios of how a corrupt President can milk this system now in place.
And if there’s anyone going to do it , Trumps the one.

I urge people to read the dissenting paper .

 

[King Harold]

At the time it was decided law, and the law of the land. They changed it after. So they didn't actually commit perjury, technically speaking.

Your probably not interested , by there is YouTube coverage of the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearing.
A then TRUMP nominee for the Supreme Court, and now a member.
These hearings by the way are under oath , so subject to perjury.

Hearing his answers on this very subject of immunity is staggering in its dishonesty.
He lied through his teeth , and just confirms they are in the pocket of the MAGA movement.

By the way there is vision of all the “ Trump “ judges lying at their hearings.

They all should be charged with perjury !

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I just thought I would chime in because I don't think the shove video really evidences the point you are making about his character.

It was an illustration showing his incessant need to be in the spotlight and at the centre of every conversation. Something that to my eternal shame I am perpetuating in this thread. He's done this his entire life. One only has to look how he had to insert himself into the Central Park Five tragedy too understand this.

But if you insist.

With the "shove" video, there is a bit of context. It was a NATO related meeting and all the European leaders, the European media, diplomats, etc were ropeable that Trump was telling them they had to increase their NATO contributions to meet agreed levels. They sought to snub him in various ways, including shunting him down the back and off to the side. Usually, the US President is front and centre and generally feted. The Euro leaders queue up for photo ops with the president and his wife and flatter or press them to grease the funding wheels from the USA. But Trump had gone to the US Election with a very public policy of making Europe pay more of NATO, making him persona non grata.

Yes. I fully understand the context of the shove video and why his posturing was already redundant by the time of its happening. Just as I understand why Prime Ministers Trudeau, Johnson and President Macron were caught on a hot mic mocking his buffoonery at another NATO summit. And Boris is an expert at buffoonery, so he'd know.

I also understand the difference between NATO countries agreeing to a goal of spending 2% of their GDP on defence expenditure after Russian invaded Crimea in 2014. Something that pre-dated Trumps presidency by nearly 3 years and Donald Trumps continued delusion that somehow this, with a war very near members borders still hasn't happened when in fact between 20 and 24 of 32 aligned countries will have met or exceeded the 2% target by the end of this year. Some others will reach the target in the coming years. And some will never reach it due to their own economies or agendas. However, other than perhaps the New Zealand of the north. Canada this doesn't include any of the major players.

Although of course he did, It's not Trump who can claim credit for this. It's Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine in 2022 that can. That he is still banging this drum on the election stump shows that One: Like how tariffs work, he clearly has no understanding of geo-political issues, unless they are on a quid pro quo basis (another character trait). Two: He so bound up in them, that he believes his own lies. Three: He knows that his supporters are low information rubes, who without question cheer on anything that falls out of his mouth. Like his assertion that the US was directly owed money by anybody not he alone adjudged as delinquent. Oh, the irony! And Four: All Demagogues. Demagogue.

Google Trumps NATO summit visits and I challenge you to find an image where he is shunted down the back and off to the side. Every single image has him either standing front and centre as a US President should. Sitting directly next to or opposite Jens Stoltenberg. The Secretary General of NATO. Or in one on one meetings with other world leaders.

The idea that with the spectre of a soon to be hot war simmering away on their borders that they'd sideline any President of the United States is as absurd as it is idiotic. Would some avoid having a photo op with somebody using them as a political cudgel back home? Possibly, but I'd do the same if that person was needlessly trying to extort me.

The US expends more on its defence, not because its forced to or because all its allies are somehow like a delinquent renter during his days as a slum lord. As is Trumps view. Thats an easily digested sideshow for imbeciles without an understanding as to why those countries allowed spending to fall to historic lows after the so called post cold war peace dividend. Something that proved as misguided as Russia being a reliable supplier of cheap energy.

The US spends 40% of the worlds defence expenditure because it's in its own economic and geo-political interests to do so.

 

[bresker]

Trump's foreign policy is straight from his 'Appentice' character playbook. It's child Trump, if there is any other.

'This isn't a good deal, they're not pulling their weight. Let's cut them.'

Or in the case of North Korea and Russia.

'I'm a deal maker. I know how to talk to these people. I can work something out.'

It reduces foreign policy to Facebook marketplace.

That said, the Ukrainian war can't go on forever. Wars only finish when one side wins by complete overwhelming victory, or the two sides parley. Some say Ukraine is a proxy war fought by the US and Europe against Russia using Ukraine as the middleman. That's not a notion shared by the Ukrainians on the ground, and is disrespectful to their struggle.

Not that any wars are fun, but since you can watch this one on YouTube it brings you right into the horrorible reality. It's a WW1 slog with drones.
The war seems to be fought by 35 - 50 year old Ukrainian soldiers & dirt poor Russian cannon fodder. I feel despair for both. Not that Trump gives an arse about what's happening on the ground. But a second presidency might bring some sort of closure closer.

 

[King Harold]

Trump's foreign policy is straight from his 'Appentice' character playbook. It's child Trump, if there is any other.

'This isn't a good deal, they're not pulling their weight. Let's cut them.'

Or in the case of North Korea and Russia.

'I'm a deal maker. I know how to talk to these people. I can work something out.'

It reduces foreign policy to Facebook marketplace.

That said, the Ukrainian war can't go on forever. Wars only finish when one side wins by complete overwhelming victory, or the two sides parley. Some say Ukraine is a proxy war fought by the US and Europe against Russia using Ukraine as the middleman. That's not a notion shared by the Ukrainians on the ground, and is disrespectful to their struggle.

Not that any wars are fun, but since you can watch this one on YouTube it brings you right into the horrorible reality. It's a WW1 slog with drones.
The war seems to be fought by 35 - 50 year old Ukrainian soldiers & dirt poor Russian cannon fodder. I feel despair for both. Not that Trump gives an arse about what's happening on the ground. But a second presidency might bring some sort of closure closer.

You make some good points, but as for Trump helping closure for the Ukraine war , let’s just say it may not be good news for Ukraine.

 

[grassman75]

grassman75 - in spite of the similar sentiment in the 3 replies to your post (the other 2 even partly sounded like something I might write!), I'd just like to clarify that King Harold dogwatch and I are not the same person. At least I don't think we are!

Sure sure - I’ve met the King….so I know who he is

 

[grassman75]

If Michelle is a true patriot, she needs to run. Only hope of sanity prevailing.

Don’t you mean if Michelle truly has a big set of nuts, he, I mean she, will step up and put Biden out of his misery and spice this thing up

 

[King Harold]

Sure sure - I’ve met the King….so I know who he is

We shared a burrito together in the good old days
You are one of the special posters along with fossie, the only two l have met .

 

[King Harold]