Analysis The rebuild of Carlton and Brisbane and their future prospects

[blitzer]

Weitering has probably been close to our best player this year apart from Cripps - watch some games. Also he was drafted as a bottom ager and doesn't turn 22 until November playing as a KPD, but yeah shit draft pick that one.

Our drafting and trading is fine - SOS has done as much as he can with what little currency he had to start off with.

For one reason or another we are simply not clicking on field and (in my pessimistic opinion) aren't progressing as quick as we should be.

I think Weitering will be a reasonable player but you can easily get key position defenders later in the draft or in the rookie draft. Not worth using a #1 pick for them. #1 picks should be reserved for bonofide midfielders and key forwards or maybe a really freakish generational talent in rucks/flanks.

Hahahaha little drafting currency - you do realise Carlton have more top draft picks on their list than literally every other club in the league besides GWS right? I hope you were taking the piss with that comment.

 

[chunkylover53]

I think Weitering will be a reasonable player but you can easily get key position defenders later in the draft or in the rookie draft. Not worth using a #1 pick for them. #1 picks should be reserved for bonofide midfielders and key forwards or maybe a really freakish generational talent in rucks/flanks.

Hahahaha little drafting currency - you do realise Carlton have more top draft picks on their list than literally every other club in the league besides GWS right? I hope you were taking the piss with that comment.

What are you basing your first point off? Weitering was a clear #1 pick and is developing into our #1 KPD and one of the better ones in the comp. at 22 he’s coming into his prime just when we’re (supposed to be) rising up the ladder. Did you see any generational midfielders in that draft we should’ve taken at the time?

Ah you’re not bright are you? Read the initial post. SOS came to the club with little currency or draft picks. He’s done exceptionally well to trade what currency we had and turn them into high draft picks and/or players. IE Menzel, Bell, Henderson, Touhey, Gibbs.

Do some research.

 

[Jeremias]

Even Gold Coast have a stronger culture than Carlton.

A club that has been around for 8 years with all of their good players leaving is more professional than a club that has been around since 1864.

Quite sad really.

The earth will cease to exist long before I contemplate taking an Essendon fan seriously when they talk about club culture.

Go away troll.

 

[Black Stripe]

Totally concur on Brisbane talent ID, people seem to forget yeo, docherty and Polec (beams as well)in their side would see them Just about in flag calculations now

As for Carlton well I’m not sure winning games has been their highest priority.

Following sos’s “groundbreaking” list management model that simply involves gathering as many high picks as possible, trading older players for more high picks and then playing as many as said high picks as possible has seen Carlton struggle to “break” the cycle of losing, similar to melbourne.

They at least look like through sheer number of high picks( now more than gws) on the list and with some experience under their belts are finally starting to look like a climb up the ladder isn’t too far off - tho again as shown by melbourne this season ,this type list build takes along time for a club to shake the mental weight of consistent losing.

Harsh on Melbourne as they made a preliminary final last year.

When was the last time Carlton played in a preliminary final?

 

[RUNVS]

Harsh on Melbourne as they made a preliminary final last year.

When was the last time Carlton played in a preliminary final?

I remember Carlton playing a final against the Swans at ANZ Stadium. Trent Dennis-Lane kicked an important goal.

 

[fnerd]

Harsh on Melbourne as they made a preliminary final last year.

When was the last time Carlton played in a preliminary final?

Oh my reference to melbourne was along the lines of , having gone through a very long rebuild (or 2) via stockpiling multiple first rounders that after finally breaking the shackles and making an impact in finals and with big expectations this season they are back to struggling again.
Of course early signs but appears melbourne aren’t coping well with a winning expectation.

 

[Fadge]

Harsh on Melbourne as they made a preliminary final last year.

When was the last time Carlton played in a preliminary final?

Put it this way, there are adults out there who haven't seen Carlton play in a Preliminary Final.

 

[Black Stripe]

Put it this way, there are adults out there who haven't seen Carlton play in a Preliminary Final.

Sam Walsh was only 7 weeks old.

 

[bungalow_bill]

The 2016 draft was a beauty for Brisbane.

Alex Witherden
Jarrod Berry
Hugh McCluggage
Oscar McInerney

+ Cedric Cox

 

[kaiserchief13]

Carlton have some winnable games coming up - GC, Bulldogs, Hawthorn and North. If they don't win any of them Bolton needs to go

 

[bungalow_bill]

Oh my reference to melbourne was along the lines of , having gone through a very long rebuild (or 2) via stockpiling multiple first rounders that after finally breaking the shackles and making an impact in finals and with big expectations this season they are back to struggling again.
Of course early signs but appears melbourne aren’t coping well with a winning expectation.

I think a lot of Melbourne's issues at present are due to the new rules.

 

[blitzer]

What are you basing your first point off? Weitering was a clear #1 pick and is developing into our #1 KPD and one of the better ones in the comp. at 22 he’s coming into his prime just when we’re (supposed to be) rising up the ladder. Did you see any generational midfielders in that draft we should’ve taken at the time?

Ah you’re not bright are you? Read the initial post. SOS came to the club with little currency or draft picks. He’s done exceptionally well to trade what currency we had and turn them into high draft picks and/or players. IE Menzel, Bell, Henderson, Touhey, Gibbs.

Do some research.

A bloke named Oliver comes to mind who was taken with the 3rd live pick in the draft (since Mills was always going to Sydney) and it was pretty clear Melbourne had identified what a talent he was because they traded purposefully with Gold Coast to get that selection. Even if Weitering goes onto become a quality KPD which is hardly guaranteed how many KPD's in the league taken over the last decade or so would you really want to use pick 1 on? Rance? Anyone else?

I find it spurious to claim that Carlton have not had many high picks available in the draft when Carlton have had a top 5 pick for years and years by virtue of finishing bottom 4 every year. You can do a lot of things with top draft picks if you choose to. For example Brisbane 2016 traded pick 2 to GWS in order to get 3 and 16 I believe (which netted them the McCluggage/Berry combo). A very fine bit of creative trading. Many clubs have done much more with far less than what Carlton have done. A lot of the GWS recruits have list cloggers written all over them and despite having tons of salary cap available the highest profile recruit they've been able to secure is Mitch McGovern who is hardly a top line forward. Its not all SOS's fault though because a lot of the list problems go back to the blokes recruited under the previous regime that haven't developed into good players.

Ultimately Carlton can't hide behind being 'young' and 'developing' this year because they've already traded out their first pick. So if they go onto win the spoon which I predicted they would all along then what does that say about Silvagni and his assessment of the Carlton's list? I bet there's a few Carlton supporters that might be a bit ticked off if they do finish last and don't get a shot at the next Walsh.

 

[Monkey King]

A bloke named Oliver comes to mind ...

I find it spurious to claim that Carlton have not had many high picks available in the draft ...

Ultimately Carlton can't hide behind being 'young' and 'developing' this year because they've already traded out their first pick.

Oliver was a bolter to pick 4. No way he was going pick one. It was either Weitering or Schache on every draft watcher’s list, so meaningless hindsight bias is in full swing here.

Who claimed that? The poster said SOS didn’t have much currency when he arrived at the club; and he didn’t. He got one pick in each round like every other club. He squeezed everything possible from a wooden spoon list in deals for Menzel, Yarran, Henderson, Tuohy, Bell, Gibbs to get extra picks for guys like Curnow, McKay, Cunningham, O’Brien, Kennedy, McGovern.

There’s no hiding behind anything. Carlton are a young and developing side. You can either acknowledge reality or deny it, but it is what it is.

 

[Ambrosia]

The earth will cease to exist long before I contemplate taking an Essendon fan seriously when they talk about club culture.

Go away troll.

What sort of moronic post is this haha.

 

[M Malice]

Carlton are going to be fine, their form this season reminds me very much of ours last year. They need to get a mature Lachie Neale type into their side to help spread the load, easier said than done though.

 

[chunkylover53]

Oliver was a bolter to pick 4. No way he was going pick one. It was either Weitering or Schache on every draft watcher’s list, so meaningless hindsight bias is in full swing here.

Who claimed that? The poster said SOS didn’t have much currency when he arrived at the club; and he didn’t. He got one pick in each round like every other club. He squeezed everything possible from a wooden spoon list in deals for Menzel, Yarran, Henderson, Tuohy, Bell, Gibbs to get extra picks for guys like Curnow, McKay, Cunningham, O’Brien, Kennedy, McGovern.

There’s no hiding behind anything. Carlton are a young and developing side. You can either acknowledge reality or deny it, but it is what it is.

I don't think he gets it what I mean with the trading currency stuff. I wouldn't bother.

 

[The wily weagle]

It's worth considering what would happen if either side lost their best player.

If the lions lost Neale, that would undoubtedly hurt them a lot, but I see enough talent around him such as Berry, Mcluggage etc to at least pick up a bit of the slack.

If Carlton lost Cripps however, they would be absolutely an utterly screwed.

 

[Robertio]

A bloke named Oliver comes to mind who was taken with the 3rd live pick in the draft (since Mills was always going to Sydney) and it was pretty clear Melbourne had identified what a talent he was because they traded purposefully with Gold Coast to get that selection. Even if Weitering goes onto become a quality KPD which is hardly guaranteed how many KPD's in the league taken over the last decade or so would you really want to use pick 1 on? Rance? Anyone else?

I find it spurious to claim that Carlton have not had many high picks available in the draft when Carlton have had a top 5 pick for years and years by virtue of finishing bottom 4 every year. You can do a lot of things with top draft picks if you choose to. For example Brisbane 2016 traded pick 2 to GWS in order to get 3 and 16 I believe (which netted them the McCluggage/Berry combo). A very fine bit of creative trading. Many clubs have done much more with far less than what Carlton have done. A lot of the GWS recruits have list cloggers written all over them and despite having tons of salary cap available the highest profile recruit they've been able to secure is Mitch McGovern who is hardly a top line forward. Its not all SOS's fault though because a lot of the list problems go back to the blokes recruited under the previous regime that haven't developed into good players.

Ultimately Carlton can't hide behind being 'young' and 'developing' this year because they've already traded out their first pick. So if they go onto win the spoon which I predicted they would all along then what does that say about Silvagni and his assessment of the Carlton's list? I bet there's a few Carlton supporters that might be a bit ticked off if they do finish last and don't get a shot at the next Walsh.

There's no next Walsh in this years draft.

 

[RUNVS]

Just checked and if GWS beat Geelong next week (quite possible) and Brisbane beat Essendon (again quite possible) then Brisbane will be top of the table.

When was the last time Brisbane were top of the table?

 

[bungalow_bill]

A bloke named Oliver comes to mind who was taken with the 3rd live pick in the draft (since Mills was always going to Sydney) and it was pretty clear Melbourne had identified what a talent he was because they traded purposefully with Gold Coast to get that selection. Even if Weitering goes onto become a quality KPD which is hardly guaranteed how many KPD's in the league taken over the last decade or so would you really want to use pick 1 on? Rance? Anyone else?

I find it spurious to claim that Carlton have not had many high picks available in the draft when Carlton have had a top 5 pick for years and years by virtue of finishing bottom 4 every year. You can do a lot of things with top draft picks if you choose to. For example Brisbane 2016 traded pick 2 to GWS in order to get 3 and 16 I believe (which netted them the McCluggage/Berry combo). A very fine bit of creative trading. Many clubs have done much more with far less than what Carlton have done. A lot of the GWS recruits have list cloggers written all over them and despite having tons of salary cap available the highest profile recruit they've been able to secure is Mitch McGovern who is hardly a top line forward. Its not all SOS's fault though because a lot of the list problems go back to the blokes recruited under the previous regime that haven't developed into good players.

Ultimately Carlton can't hide behind being 'young' and 'developing' this year because they've already traded out their first pick. So if they go onto win the spoon which I predicted they would all along then what does that say about Silvagni and his assessment of the Carlton's list? I bet there's a few Carlton supporters that might be a bit ticked off if they do finish last and don't get a shot at the next Walsh.

I think some might use pick 1 on Harris Andrews

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just checked and if GWS beat Geelong next week (quite possible) and Brisbane beat Essendon (again quite possible) then Brisbane will be top of the table.

When was the last time Brisbane were top of the table?

Round 1 until Freo won.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

It's worth considering what would happen if either side lost their best player.

If the lions lost Neale, that would undoubtedly hurt them a lot, but I see enough talent around him such as Berry, Mcluggage etc to at least pick up a bit of the slack.

If Carlton lost Cripps however, they would be absolutely an utterly screwed.

Already lost our best defender, best forward & best ruckman.

 

[fnerd]

There's no next Walsh in this years draft.

Thanks Nostradamus

 

[RUNVS]

There's no next Walsh in this years draft.

Rozee is not a Walsh either, but he looks like he might be as good.

 

[fnerd]

I think some might use pick 1 on Harris Andrews

Jeremy McGovern

Absolute no brainer

You d take him above any of them , rance included.

And he was a ROOKIE selection (Andrews was a late ND pick too)

But according to SOS’s (and many Carlton fans) “revolutionary” list management skills you can only get decent players with high draft picks ...and you need lots of them.

It’s purely a numbers game for ol sos , stock pile enough top 10 picks and the tide will turn eventually....

Genius