Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[Meteoric Rise]

Not just midfield but ruck too.
Defence and forward lines are both very strong.

Also, it's been a good ride for a long time for our supporter base.

Never finished below 12th.
Haven't won a wooden spoon since 1958.
Haven't finished bottom 4 since 1986.
Haven't sacked a coach since 1988.

Haven't outscored Richmond in a finals series in 11 attempts beside once in the middle of our longest funk, in 1995.

Must be an awful feeling for the club to be sacked by every coach since 1988.

4 flags in 60 years isn't very special. Just checked our trophy cabinet, 8 in that time it seems, despite spending the majority of that period on the skids. Otherwise, you could pretty much guarantee about 18 flags.

 

[adammania9]

If Noah Cumberland hits his absolute max potential, he might churn out a career comparable to that of Alex Fasolo

Alex Fasolo

Age

32

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.8

4star

.

I urge Richmond supporters to be patient. Good new players worth the hype will eventually come around. Posts in this thread remind me of Pies fans trying to get excited about Poulter, Bianco and Tyler Brown

21

Tyler Brown

Age

24

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

3star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

being the future in 2021.

 

[Mr Meow]

If Noah Cumberland hits his absolute max potential, he might churn out a career comparable to that of Alex Fasolo.

I urge Richmond supporters to be patient. Good new players worth the hype will eventually come around. Posts in this thread remind me of Pies fans trying to get excited about Poulter, Bianco and Tyler Brown being the future in 2021.

Are there any spare Daicos' in the pipeline that you guys could spare them out of pity?

 

[Kobe Gryant]

If Noah Cumberland hits his absolute max potential, he might churn out a career comparable to that of Alex Fasolo.

I urge Richmond supporters to be patient. Good new players worth the hype will eventually come around. Posts in this thread remind me of Pies fans trying to get excited about Poulter, Bianco and Tyler Brown being the future in 2021.

I remember similar for us in 2018.

It wasn't an awful year by any means, we still made finals...but it felt like that groups window was closing. The list was old, with minimal talent coming through.

As a supporter, if there was a year to actually buy in to the cliff prophecy, THAT was the year.

You can delude yourself into thinking the Charlie Constables, Jamain Jones, & Quinton Narkles of the world are the future...but it's just that, delusion.

It's the worst place you can be in footy. Playing kids who you know deep down aren't any good, but you have to do it because it's all you've got.

Providing they keep their draft picks, in 2-3 years, even if Richmond are bottom 2, it'll be a much more enjoyable experience as a supporter IMO.

You can actually see the bones of your next contending side developing. Even if you suck, you can see the light at the tunnel that isn't present right now.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Are there any spare Daicos' in the pipeline that you guys could spare them out of pity?

I'm pretty sure the accepted terminology is Daicii

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No mention of Holmes or Dempsey?

How come? Didn’t watch the game, or just decided to leave them out of it and hope nobody would notice?

Jeremias old bean, not many find my ignore list, but the one's that do are almost exclusively trolls.
Think that answers why he left out Dempsey.

Funnily enough there's a few Tiggers on that list.

 

[Daka]

4 Cats in oldest 22 no Tigers.

 

[Cyclops]

I'm pretty sure the accepted terminology is Daicii

Dacoi. The family is from the former realm of Megas Alexandros, so Hellenic forms pertain.

Italian names could properly use Latin plurals, so Silvagni becomes Silvagnii, Fiora becomes Fiori, Liberatore becone Liberatoræ etc.

 

[Mr Meow]

View attachment 1934263
4 Cats in oldest 22 no Tigers.

We have the best old and young players of the two sides.

 

[FootyLad0]

A better comparison for Cumberland would be Ollie Henry. Henry was consistently dropped by Collingwood due to his lack of defensive effort and being too selfish. Geelong pick him up and leave him on the ground and say just kick goals. He's still selfish and defensively unaccountable but he kicks goals because that's what he does well and doesn't have to think as much about chasing a guy 100m up the ground. Cumberland is the same but is asked to do too many things that he's not great at at the detriment of his natural game.

Henry kicked 41 goals in 2023 in his third season at age 21 which was top 15 in the entire League last year (15th) as a third option forward behind Hawkins and Cameron who both finished with 53 (5th) and 49 goals (10th)

For a kid under the age of 22 that's insanely good.

Cumberland has play 18 games total in two years and kicked 19 goals in his debut year. A guy who's career and stats are similar is Malcolm Rosas. Rosas has still played 40 games compared to 19 so it's still out of wack.

Ollie Henry is much more like a third option forward who can play tall and contest pack marks (he does) or small and crumb goals (he does). Cumberland wouldn't meet that criteria...it's a bit of a weird shot at Henry to compare him to Cumberland

 

[Grrr]

I love that you just drop this amazing performance in a practice match in. Pretty harsh. How could he not have been picked? What is the coach thinking?

So I checked the squad against Collingwood for the practice match. Squad of 26 plus 4 emergencies and Nankervis, Vlastuin, Banks and Mansell all out. Still no Cumberland named even as an emergency. He wasn't in the first 34 players named at Richmond. So you're referring to a VFL practice match.

Take a look at the superstars he went up against. Yeah I wonder why that game didn't shoot him into contention.

VFL team selected to take on Richmond

The Club’s VFL side will take on Richmond in their first official practice match of 2024 on Tuesday, heading to Punt Road for the matinee clash.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

He was emergency against Gold Coast. I guess they want to get some footy into him rather than him missing another game or play half a VFL game like emergencies often do.

Of course I was referring to the VFL match, what other match would he be playing if he wasn't selected in the seniors. You do well in the VFL and you get promoted, that's how it goes generally.

 

[STPer18]

View attachment 1934263
4 Cats in oldest 22 no Tigers.

Which is funny because guys like Grimes, Martin, Prestia look for more washed up than the Geelong guys listed here. Danger with a 10 vote, BoG in a tight game to start season 2024 a perfect example. Something in the water seems to keep our blokes going at a higher level for longer.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Of course I was referring to the VFL match, what other match would he be playing if he wasn't selected in the seniors. You do well in the VFL and you get promoted, that's how it goes generally.

Most people when talking about a fringe player having a really good practice match would be referring to an AFL practice match. Normally if you're referring to the VFL or VFL practice match you would use the term "VFL" at some point rather than expecting everyone to remember he didn't play in the AFL practice match.

 

[Pomsta]

Henry kicked 41 goals in 2023 in his third season at age 21 which was top 15 in the entire League last year (15th) as a third option forward behind Hawkins and Cameron who both finished with 53 (5th) and 49 goals (10th)

For a kid under the age of 22 that's insanely good.

Cumberland has play 18 games total in two years and kicked 19 goals in his debut year. A guy who's career and stats are similar is Malcolm Rosas. Rosas has still played 40 games compared to 19 so it's still out of wack.

Ollie Henry is much more like a third option forward who can play tall and contest pack marks (he does) or small and crumb goals (he does). Cumberland wouldn't meet that criteria...it's a bit of a weird shot at Henry to compare him to Cumberland

I'm not taking a shot at Henry, I'm taking a shot at our coaching and match committee. We would probably have played Mansell and MRJ ahead of Henry because they supply more pressure. It's ridiculous. I much prefer our forwards to kick goals but that seemed to be a secondary focus for us.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Which is funny because guys like Grimes, Martin, Prestia look for more washed up than the Geelong guys listed here. Danger with a 10 vote, BoG in a tight game to start season 2024 a perfect example. Something in the water seems to keep our blokes going at a higher level for longer.

Steve Hocking has secretly added anti-ageing chemical to the Geelong water supply.

Another shadowy mysterious power he has, like mental-telepathy to make umpires give less frees to Richmond, or leather-bending to make Lynch's shot hit the post.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Future is bright in Geelong

Best players last week were

Danger
Duncan
Tuoy
Blicavs
Kolo
Cameron
Stewart

Good news is c Guthrie will be back soon

The cliff is coming and it’s gunna look like the Grand Canyon

Pathetic attempt.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Squad of 26 plus 4 best 22 out injured yet Cumberland still isn't named. Out of contract this year. Papers stamped?

 

[juss]

Squad of 26 plus 4 best 22 out injured yet Cumberland still isn't named. Out of contract this year. Papers stamped?

Looks like one of those talents that needs a new environment in order to flourish, and could become a very handy player somewhere else if he does.

However, he's 2 games into his career under Yze so he has time to turn it around.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Squad of 26 plus 4 best 22 out injured yet Cumberland still isn't named. Out of contract this year. Papers stamped?

I don't get it at all. Something just doesn't smell right with it. Forgetting the question of the topic for a second here this guy is pretty good and should be in the side.

 

[Grrr]

Squad of 26 plus 4 best 22 out injured yet Cumberland still isn't named. Out of contract this year. Papers stamped?

We are how far into the season and you are stamping papers. I would have thought they might be waiting for a couple of really good games so he comes in with some form, like all football clubs do. Yze is 5 minutes into coach of Richmond, nobody is going anywhere in March.

 

[Footy Smarts]

We are how far into the season and you are stamping papers. I would have thought they might be waiting for a couple of really good games so he comes in with some form, like all football clubs do. Yze is 5 minutes into coach of Richmond, nobody is going anywhere in March.

I'm confused. I thought he had been playing really well already? Winning games off his own boot, etc.

You're wrapping yourself in knots trying to convince yourself Cumberland is a high quality player when he's been left out regularly by 3 coaches and is currently a long way away from being picked. If Yze thought Cumberland had anything to offer he would've picked him at the very least in the practice matches.

He's in the same spot as guys like Ralphsmith and Parfitt. There's no 4D chess "wait for a couple of really good games so he comes in with some form" going on here. All of those guys are clearly a long way back in the pecking order because the club thinks they have far better players.

Maybe they get a chance at some point to prove the coach wrong. But it's abundantly clear what the coach thinks of them.

 

[Grrr]

I'm confused. I thought he had been playing really well already? Winning games off his own boot, etc.

You're wrapping yourself in knots trying to convince yourself Cumberland is a high quality player when he's been left out regularly by 3 coaches and is currently a long way away from being picked. If Yze thought Cumberland had anything to offer he would've picked him at the very least in the practice matches.

He's in the same spot as guys like Ralphsmith and Parfitt. There's no 4D chess "wait for a couple of really good games so he comes in with some form" going on here. All of those guys are clearly a long way back in the pecking order because the club thinks they have far better players.

Maybe they get a chance at some point to prove the coach wrong. But it's abundantly clear what the coach thinks of them.

I said he played a good half. He's been going okay in the 2 practice games overall.

I have no idea what is going on at Richmond. It looks like the same match committee of last year are running the show.
Rioli Jnr got 4 possessions last week and 1 goals. Yet miraculously stays in.
Mansell got 6 possessions and missed a sitter, and stays in. Pressure maybe, both had 1 tackle.
Both would not get a game in any side in the league.

It looks as if Campbell is making way for Mansell this week. He is last in line of the 6 named interchange bench.
Campbell had 13 possessions, kicked a clutch goal and has class.

Ralphsmith is a bust. I can name half a dozen easily at Richmond who are in the same boat after Yze has a good look at them.
Cumberland will get his chance if he fires in the VFL, and if he doesn't then not good enough. But he has runs on the board so I'm backing him in over a lot of other very ordinary footballers.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I have no idea what is going on at Richmond. It looks like the same match committee of last year are running the show.
Rioli Jnr got 4 possessions last week and 1 goals. Yet miraculously stays in.
Mansell got 6 possessions and missed a sitter, and stays in. Pressure maybe, both had 1 tackle.
Both would not get a game in any side in the league.

You're convinced that 17 coaches in the league would pick Cumberland over Mansell. But 3 consecutive coaches have preferred Mansell to Cumberland. It's exceedingly unlikely that Richmond by luck got the 3 coaches that rate Mansell and not Cumberland.

My guess is that the vast majority of coaches in the league would pick Mansell over Cumberland and that Cumberland has massive flaws in his game. Chances are we'll soon find out if other coaches in the league rate him because unless something drastically changes he won't be at Richmond next year.

 

[Grrr]

You're convinced that 17 coaches in the league would pick Cumberland over Mansell. But 3 consecutive coaches have preferred Mansell to Cumberland. It's exceedingly unlikely that Richmond by luck got the 3 coaches that rate Mansell and not Cumberland.

My guess is that the vast majority of coaches in the league would pick Mansell over Cumberland and that Cumberland has massive flaws in his game. Chances are we'll soon find out if other coaches in the league rate him because unless something drastically changes he won't be at Richmond next year.

I bet they wouldn't.

What are these massive flaws. He kicks goals, he tackles, he makes things happen around the ball, he is very aggressive, he is a very good mark for his size. His flaws are that he doesn't always concentrate, gets a bit down on himself when he makes a mistake, didn't play to Hardwick/McQualters structures, that's about it. Even the detractors on the Richmond board will agree with what I'm saying. If you know better after watching every VFL and AFL match he has played, like most of us have, then do tell.

But even so, he has done way more than Mansell and Rioli, at both AFL and VFL level, that is not even disputable.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

You're convinced that 17 coaches in the league would pick Cumberland over Mansell. But 3 consecutive coaches have preferred Mansell to Cumberland. It's exceedingly unlikely that Richmond by luck got the 3 coaches that rate Mansell and not Cumberland.

My guess is that the vast majority of coaches in the league would pick Mansell over Cumberland and that Cumberland has massive flaws in his game. Chances are we'll soon find out if other coaches in the league rate him because unless something drastically changes he won't be at Richmond next year.

Two things can be true though, and FWIW, I do agree that Cumberland clearly has flaws in his game, or he'd actually be playing otherwise.

The Cumberland/Greene/Stengle/Cameron comparisons are ridiculous, he'll never make an AA side like all of those guys have.

With that being said, he's still certainly a better footballer than Mansell, and probably MRJ.

Mansell would be up there as one of the worst players in the league to regularly be getting games. It's not exactly a high bar, but Cumberland has him well covered.

Cumberland has at least shown the ability to be a contributor, and at a stretch a match winner.

Mansell has shown he's Jason Castagna lite, and that's saying something.