Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[PhatBoy]

It took Bulldogs until rd 10 to beat any team in the top 10 at the end of the season. They were 0-3 v top 10 teams up to rd 9. Thereafter they were 7-3 against top 10 teams including the final loss to the Hawks.

there is very little doubt they were playing better in the second phase than the first, thus my statement.

Was it the worst form they were in or not? You had no idea they were in the top 8 and had just had two big wins. Their season nadir came at round 9 when they had lost 4 out of 5.

You adhere so strictly to things like PlAyEr RaTiNgZ. Put some twenty second research into what you post when you write this crap.

Even the stuff in your general summation: yeah absolutely our record after our 7-0 start is a middling effort.

After dropping 5 games in a row and then another two a fortnight after breaking that stretch, we won 8 out of 10 before the Lions beat us, and each of Essendon, Collingwood and Fremantle were inside the 8 when we defeated them. So I’d say after arresting the issues we had, we corrected things pretty well and got everything sorted out to some degree and gave ourselves every chance.

Whatever it is you’re trying to peddle, it needs some work.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Was it the worst form they were in or not? You had no idea they were in the top 8 and had just had two big wins. Their season nadir came at round 9 when they had lost 4 out of 5.

You adhere so strictly to things like PlAyEr RaTiNgZ. Put some twenty second research into what you post when you write this crap.

Even the stuff in your general summation: yeah absolutely our record after our 7-0 start is a middling effort.

After dropping 5 games in a row and then another two a fortnight after breaking that stretch, we won 8 out of 10 before the Lions beat us, and each of Essendon, Collingwood and Fremantle were inside the 8 when we defeated them. So I’d say after arresting the issues we had, we corrected things pretty well and got everything sorted out to some degree and gave ourselves every chance.

Whatever it is you’re trying to peddle, it needs some work.

My view is the cats had a good run of catching opponents at the right time in 2024. If you have a different view you are entitled to it. But you are wrong, imo.

 

[PhatBoy]

My view is the cats had a good run of catching opponents at the right time in 2024. If you have a different view you are entitled to it. But you are wrong, imo.

We probably got Essendon at a reasonable time.
They were coming off a 30 point win over West Coast but lost the two games before it to Carlton and Gold Coast. They went on to beat Collingwood the week after we beat them, though. Their form can’t have been that bad.
We flogged hawthorn during their good run. Which I’m sure you’ll just brush off due to the venue.
We got the Pies at a pretty good time. They were in the middle of a down patch.

Fremantle had won 5 out of 6 then lost that thriller to Essendon by a point in Melbourne. You couldn’t mount any serious argument to say that playing them in Perth was ‘getting them at a good time.’

There was nothing unusually ‘lucky’ or unjust about when we played the teams we played. Hell, we met Melbourne at home when they were still good. What about all the sides that played them later in the season.

 

[Rich01]

We were about 2 minutes off making the gf- things are looking vg.

Scott is right in trying to punch thru for another flag.
The comp is so even there are 12 teams that could fluke a flag. Port and Geelong are two of them.

But when push comes to shove, I don’t think midfields led by Bowes and Bruin stand up to sides like Brisbane and Sydney in the big games. Thats where you fell short and will need to improve. Do you disagree with this or believe those two are the answer?

 

[Rich01]

That pretty much sounds like you're writing him off.

No. I think he’s a second string midfielder for a premiership side. Or a starting midfielder for a side that’s just off the pace.

Marking him down as a contributor in a potential premiership side isn’t writing anyone off. It’s being realistic about how he competes against the top tier mids for Sydney, Brisbane and GWS. Do you think he’s up there with them, honestly?

 

[Footy Smarts]

No. I think he’s a second string midfielder for a premiership side. Or a starting midfielder for a side that’s just off the pace.

So this is much more reasonable than your first claim. "Geez I hope you don’t think Bruin in the midfield is the way forward to win a flag."

So it is the way forward to winning a flag just not as a midfield starter?

Marking him down as a contributor in a potential premiership side isn’t writing anyone off. It’s being realistic about how he competes against the top tier mids for Sydney, Brisbane and GWS. Do you think he’s up there with them, honestly?

Right now? No.

But he did get more clearances per game than every mid at Brisbane, Sydney and GWS except Tom Green, Lachie Neale and Isaac Heeney.

So more than Coniglio, Callaghan, Kelly, Dunkley, Ashcroft, Mcluggage, Berry, Warner, Gulden and Rowbottom. That's despite playing very low game time due to in game injuries.

It's pretty bold to think a guy who is an excellent clearance player at 21-22 and uses the ball extremely well can't become a very good mid in time. He's very strong in some of the most difficult areas.

 

[Rich01]

So this is much more reasonable than your first claim. "Geez I hope you don’t think Bruin in the midfield is the way forward to win a flag."

So it is the way forward to winning a flag just not as a midfield starter?



Right now? No.

But he did get more clearances per game than every mid at Brisbane, Sydney and GWS except Tom Green, Lachie Neale and Isaac Heeney.

So more than Coniglio, Callaghan, Kelly, Dunkley, Ashcroft, Mcluggage, Berry, Warner, Gulden and Rowbottom. That's despite playing very low game time due to in game injuries.

It's pretty bold to think a guy who is an excellent clearance player at 21-22 and uses the ball extremely well can't become a very good mid in time. He's very strong in some of the most difficult areas.

Very similar to George Hewett. George is superior to him but Tanner will probably continue to improve.

Interestingly Carlton have pegged him as a second string mid behind Walsh, Cerra, Cripps.

 

[Romeoh1]

Scott is right in trying to punch thru for another flag.
The comp is so even there are 12 teams that could fluke a flag. Port and Geelong are two of them.

But when push comes to shove, I don’t think midfields led by Bowes and Bruin stand up to sides like Brisbane and Sydney in the big games. Thats where you fell short and will need to improve. Do you disagree with this or believe those two are the answer?

Nope- the midfield has been our weakness all year, longer really. Most of us recognise that, and are hopeful that we can pick up a couple of quality mids, and that the others will continue to improve.(without them probably ever becoming stars- but then, players can develop-look at Zach Guthrie- I never really thought he was going to make it, now he is an integral part of the team).
When we get a good midfield again, then we will be a vg team. Wells and Mackie are really smart cookies, so I’m confident they will find the players we need sooner than later.

 

[Rich01]

Nope- the midfield has been our weakness all year, longer really. Most of us recognise that, and are hopeful that we can pick up a couple of quality mids, and that the others will continue to improve.

Could not agree with you more.
I’m unsure why other cats fans can’t see this when it was glaringly obvious when Holmes came off the field on Saturday.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Regardless, Gibcus, Rioli, Clarke, Bauer, Ross(23 at season start) Fawcett had major interruptions to their season and several others like Brown, Trezise, Gray had 4-6 week periods they couldnt play due to injury. Even overlooking how many games which players in the age group would have played, injuries have clearly had a major impact on the performance of this cohort for Richmond in 2024. And by major I mean massive. Such that you and I have no way of fairly judging what this group may have otherwise produced.

We're back to "you can't judge our 21-23 year olds who can't get a game".

It's very funny seeing you try and pick holes in the AFL performances of Dempsey, Holmes, O Henry, Humphries, Bruhn, etc while refusing to make any judgement on players like Bauer, Trezise and Sonsie who spent big periods of the year in the VFL.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Could not agree with you more.
I’m unsure why other cats fans can’t see this when it was glaringly obvious when Holmes came off the field on Saturday.

It was when Bruhn came off the field that it went bad too. But because our midfield of Danger, Atkins, Stanley, Blicavs, etc had a bad 3rd quarter the conclusion is that Bruhn will never be more than a role player. I don't really get that logic.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

We're back to "you can't judge our 21-23 year olds who can't get a game".

It's very funny seeing you try and pick holes in the AFL performances of Dempsey, Holmes, O Henry, Humphries, Bruhn, etc while refusing to make any judgement on players like Bauer, Trezise and Sonsie who spent big periods of the year in the VFL.

What a stupid statement. In fact the whole post.

I will happily judge players that had a decent run at it like Sonsie, who clearly has plenty to work on.

Trezise is not going to be telling either way but I think he should be ok once he finds a consistent role. Bauer missed basically the whole pre-season and more than the first half of the season. He was given some time to get to match fitness in the VFL then had 3 really tidy games to finish the season. So there is every reason to have some optimism on him, but it is a small sample of AFL games to judge by.

It seems to be incredibly difficult for you to acknowledge the young Richmond players were serverely impacted by injuries in 2024. But that's on you.

 

[Rich01]

It was when Bruhn came off the field that it went bad too. But because our midfield of Danger, Atkins, Stanley, Blicavs, etc had a bad 3rd quarter the conclusion is that Bruhn will never be more than a role player. I don't really get that logic.

Do you see your side winning a flag if he is one of your top three mids?

Because it seems from the above you are crediting the drop off from the prelim on Bruins injury.

I didn’t see his output drop off immensely though. He wasn’t noticeable in the first half either.