Analysis The Rebuilds Of Hawthorn and Geelong and their Future Prospects

[HairyO]

I'm sure we may be able to find Mitchell an assistant role down at the Pies.
But seriously, the Hawks have a very poor list, which has been extremely overrated. The midfield which they call their strength is not good at all. Easy for them to complain about the forward line, however, delivery inside is poor. ANd the backline seems to face an avalanche with little defensive running from the midfielders.

I think the only player in that midfield who has defended is Ward and he is playing VFL. No one seems to tackle unless the player with the ball is standing beside them at a stoppage.

The Cats' 'future prospects' are already streets ahead of the Hawks. They have killed it over the past 3 years with their recruitment and development, and haven't had the top 6 or 7 picks the Hawks enjoyed.

I mean other than Bowes and Pick 7 for Pick 42....

We have a few top 6 or 7 picks on our list. One from last year so its silly to expect him to be on fire - particularly given he is injured.

We have a couple of poor picks from the top end but also got some great players at later picks.

The big problem is all the injuries. Look how bad WCE were when half their list was injured. Even when half a dozen important players were injured. Now they are mostly fit and are far more competitive.

In the next 3 or 4 weeks we will have most of our list back. If we are still playing terribly then that is far more of an indicator than losing to the 2nd placed team who were unchanged from the week before.

Box Hill is 2nd on the ladder and foe the most part from our young players. As the year progresses they will be fed into the seniors and older/weaker players will be phased out.

 

[boncer34]

I mean other than Bowes and Pick 7 for Pick 42....

We have a few top 6 or 7 picks on our list. One from last year so its silly to expect him to be on fire - particularly given he is injured.

We have a couple of poor picks from the top end but also got some great players at later picks.

The big problem is all the injuries. Look how bad WCE were when half their list was injured. Even when half a dozen important players were injured. Now they are mostly fit and are far more competitive.

In the next 3 or 4 weeks we will have most of our list back. If we are still playing terribly then that is far more of an indicator than losing to the 2nd placed team who were unchanged from the week before.

Box Hill is 2nd on the ladder and foe the most part from our young players. As the year progresses they will be fed into the seniors and older/weaker players will be phased out.

I don't really understand how Hawthorn is gutted by injuries but at the same time is still dominating the VFL with their youth.

 

[PhatBoy]

I hate the hawks in an ‘inherent rivalry’ sense but my respect for them doesn’t go away and I don’t have a ‘this is hilarious’ view on what’s happening at the moment.

But I’m incredibly surprised by just how poorly they are going at the moment and how badly they seem to have messed things up because even last year I thought there were signs that they could push forward and get something going this year. I don’t know that Mitchell was the answer as coach and the bright points that you look for in a young team probably aren’t plentiful.

 

[HairyO]

I don't really understand how Hawthorn is gutted by injuries but at the same time is still dominating the VFL with their youth.

Because the youth are very green and still developing. Plenty of players are rushed to the seniors and struggle. Especially if the seniors are playing badly.

Later this year we will probably see Dear but my guess is Mitchell wants both Lewis and Chol playing so Dear can be our 3rd tall.

Phillips is also doing well defending, but again the senior defenders are struggling so throwing him to the wolves does nothing for his development.

 

[HairyO]

I hate the hawks in an ‘inherent rivalry’ sense but my respect for them doesn’t go away and I don’t have a ‘this is hilarious’ view on what’s happening at the moment.

But I’m incredibly surprised by just how poorly they are going at the moment and how badly they seem to have messed things up because even last year I thought there were signs that they could push forward and get something going this year. I don’t know that Mitchell was the answer as coach and the bright points that you look for in a young team probably aren’t plentiful.

Im not allowed to talk about Mitchell on our board.

We freaked when he said he would go to Collingwood and signed him without a proper new coach panel, then Collingwood got McRae after a proper search.

One club did it right, one didnt.

 

[PhatBoy]

Im not allowed to talk about Mitchell on our board.

We freaked when he said he would go to Collingwood and signed him without a proper new coach panel, then Collingwood got McRae after a proper search.

One club did it right, one didnt.

The ‘prodigal son’ approach to coaches is often a ticket to disaster or at the very least it is almost a certainty to underwhelm. Ricky Stuart seems to have a free pass at Canberra in the NRL - he’s been there for 11 seasons so far with 1 grand final and 1 preliminary final and it won’t be added to this year.

 

[HairyO]

The ‘prodigal son’ approach to coaches is often a ticket to disaster or at the very least it is almost a certainty to underwhelm. Ricky Stuart seems to have a free pass at Canberra in the NRL - he’s been there for 11 seasons so far with 1 grand final and 1 preliminary final and it won’t be added to this year.

That said, Scott had a long time between drinks, and Longmire last won 12 seasons ago.

Not an easy gig.

 

[PhatBoy]

That said, Scott had a long time between drinks, and Longmire last won 12 seasons ago.

Not an easy gig.

Absolutely and your chances of not winning anything are much much higher than they are of winning a title. But in the case of Stewart his win rate is barely 50 per cent and he’s been given more than a decade and you have to wonder how much of that owes to the fact that he’s a club legend.

I wonder how much rope will be given to Mitchell in his current circumstances because of his status within the club. They need to be really cautious with how they move forward - just my feeling anyway. Not a criticism of Mitchell or your club, but Hawthorn need to not let the heart rule the head

 

[VinnieB]

I don't really understand how Hawthorn is gutted by injuries but at the same time is still dominating the VFL with their youth.

VFL is irrelevant. Often it's the regular VFL players that can make the biggest difference.
Yeah, go figure how kids are so good they can't get a game (or are in and out of the seniors) in the 2nd worst team who have injuries....

I still think the problem is in the middle. Maybe Wingard can add some class in there which they currently don't have (excl Day). But the fact is their midfield just doesn't run to defend.

Maybe they need to get big Reeves back in. A total liability around the ground, however, with his size he does give the midfielders clear first use of the ball.

 

[boncer34]

Because the youth are very green and still developing. Plenty of players are rushed to the seniors and struggle. Especially if the seniors are playing badly.

Later this year we will probably see Dear but my guess is Mitchell wants both Lewis and Chol playing so Dear can be our 3rd tall.

Phillips is also doing well defending, but again the senior defenders are struggling so throwing him to the wolves does nothing for his development.

But that's kinda my point isn't it. On the one hand youth haven't been rushed in on the other Hawthorn's been decimated by injury.

How do they have the luxury of holding players back if their injury list is crippling them? Maybe the injury list isn't as extensive as suggested?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I mean other than Bowes and Pick 7 for Pick 42....

We have a few top 6 or 7 picks on our list. One from last year so its silly to expect him to be on fire - particularly given he is injured.

We have a couple of poor picks from the top end but also got some great players at later picks.

The big problem is all the injuries. Look how bad WCE were when half their list was injured. Even when half a dozen important players were injured. Now they are mostly fit and are far more competitive.

In the next 3 or 4 weeks we will have most of our list back. If we are still playing terribly then that is far more of an indicator than losing to the 2nd placed team who were unchanged from the week before.

Box Hill is 2nd on the ladder and foe the most part from our young players. As the year progresses they will be fed into the seniors and older/weaker players will be phased out.

How's our boy Cooper going? Guessing it's not a good sign you're smashed by injuries and anchored to the bottom and still no sniff.

Don't think he ever crushed it at VFL level for us, but I thought showed real promise at the top level.

 

[Vivy]

This year, although energy sapping right now, is what they actually needed. They need the infusion of talent at the pointy end of the draft, and they're going to get it.

Watson for mine looks like an extremely poor pick. His ceiling is Gryan Miers

32

Gryan Miers

Age

25

Ht

179cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.2

4star

. I doubt he'll get there. Sanders, Windsor, O'Sullivan would all have been far better choices. High floors, higher ceilings.

A blue chip player in the top 3 is what they'll get this year. The rebuild will be fine.

CJ
Sicily
Lewis
Newcombe
Day
Nash
Moore
Weddle
McDonald

You can build around that core. Whether or not it will be good enough to consistently challenge for top 4 in 2-3 years is another question.

 

[My Tilly]

Box Hill is 2nd on the ladder and foe the most part from our young players. As the year progresses they will be fed into the seniors and older/weaker players will be phased out.

That is the key right there for me.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

How's our boy Cooper going? Guessing it's not a good sign you're smashed by injuries and anchored to the bottom and still no sniff.

Don't think he ever crushed it at VFL level for us, but I thought showed real promise at the top level.

He’s injured again.

 

[VinnieB]

This year, although energy sapping right now, is what they actually needed. They need the infusion of talent at the pointy end of the draft, and they're going to get it.

Watson for mine looks like an extremely poor pick. His ceiling is Gryan Miers. I doubt he'll get there. Sanders, Windsor, O'Sullivan would all have been far better choices. High floors, higher ceilings.

A blue chip player in the top 3 is what they'll get this year. The rebuild will be fine.

CJ
Sicily
Lewis
Newcombe
Day
Nash
Moore
Weddle
McDonald

You can build around that core. Whether or not it will be good enough to consistently challenge for top 4 in 2-3 years is another question.

Would be lucky to challenge top 8.

 

[HairyO]

That is the key right there for me.

Yep. The great unknown is always whether the players step up from the VFL and play well, or fail. We have (and have had over the last few years) a fair few guys who are too good for VFL but not good enough for AFL.

How's our boy Cooper going? Guessing it's not a good sign you're smashed by injuries and anchored to the bottom and still no sniff.

Don't think he ever crushed it at VFL level for us, but I thought showed real promise at the top level.

I dont really follow Box Hill much. I watch the games from time to time. Probably need one of the hard core fans who follow Box Hill to help there.

And in checking, apparently he is injured. Something we seem to have far too often.

But that's kinda my point isn't it. On the one hand youth haven't been rushed in on the other Hawthorn's been decimated by injury.

How do they have the luxury of holding players back if their injury list is crippling them? Maybe the injury list isn't as extensive as suggested?

Every team has list padders who play mostly in the reserves but are moved to the seniors when needed.

 

[SSSSSS]

How's our boy Cooper going? Guessing it's not a good sign you're smashed by injuries and anchored to the bottom and still no sniff.

Don't think he ever crushed it at VFL level for us, but I thought showed real promise at the top level.

He's injured. Again.

He's had rotten luck and can't really see him being on a list next year.

 

[SSSSSS]

Not sure what's so funny CharacterFirst about a young kid who is likely going to have his career cut short due to perpetually being injured/concussed?

 

[CharacterFirst]

Not sure what's so funny CharacterFirst about a young kid who is likely going to have his career cut short due to perpetually being injured/concussed?

I don't answer to you, nor will I waste time explaining.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I don't answer to you, nor will I waste time explaining.

God wants you to be better.

 

[SSSSSS]

I don't answer to you, nor will I waste time explaining.

Classy.

 

[CharacterFirst]

God wants you to be better.

Ha!

Pretender.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Classy.

Suck it up princess.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Not sure what's so funny CharacterFirst about a young kid who is likely going to have his career cut short due to perpetually being injured/concussed?

Yeah that's shit bloke behaviour mate.

 

[The 747]

He’s injured again.

That sucks for him, he's been pretty much injured since the trade no?

Edit apparently played a bit last year.