Analysis The Rebuilds of West Coast and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[WillHayward]

Finished 4 goals behind Currow, in the Coleman. Higher goal average than Curnow, Cameron & Hawkins, (all AA). Best contested mark average of all 3, Cameron & Hawkins x3.

Missed more games through injury. So not big fail at all, good argument to say he was the best of all three, but I did say best or there abouts.

I'm just saying he's not going to help you in 2025.
Thats all.
It's rebuild time. Thats what 3 flags gets you and the way the comp is set up.

Only Geelong have managed to avoid the inevitable bottom out. I suspect it will eventually happen.

 

[WillHayward]

Eagles should have traded out Gaff, Sheed and Barrass after the 2018 flag for high end draft picks.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Eagles should have traded out Gaff, Sheed and Barrass after the 2018 flag for high end draft picks.

Yeah that is really easy to say in hindsight isn’t it?

Gaff stayed at the club on less money than he was offered by North and was our best player in 2018 before he got rubbed out, Sheed was a fringe mid who only came into the side when Gaff went out - he played his best footy across 2019-2021 and was unlikely to ever bring in any high picks. Barrass wasn’t even 23 when we won the flag - nobody is trading away a very promising 23 year old fullback - premiership or not.

Teams that win flags don’t just start trading out players for draft picks - it just doesn’t happen.

 

[WillHayward]

Yeah that is really easy to say in hindsight isn’t it?

Gaff stayed at the club on less money than he was offered by North and was our best player in 2018 before he got rubbed out, Sheed was a fringe mid who only came into the side when Gaff went out - he played his best footy across 2019-2021 and was unlikely to ever bring in any high picks. Barrass wasn’t even 23 when we won the flag - nobody is trading away a very promising 23 year old fullback - premiership or not.

Teams that win flags don’t just start trading out players for draft picks - it just doesn’t happen.

Is it hindsight though?

Plenty were saying this in 2020 and 2021 but the club doubled down on itself and started blaming the hub, Vic bias, injury etc..

Misread their own list and instead focussed on rewarding players for the flag rather than looking fwd.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Is it hindsight though?

Plenty were saying this in 2020 and 2021 but the club doubled down on itself and started blaming the hub, Vic bias, injury etc..

Misread their own list and instead focussed on rewarding players for the flag rather than looking fwd.

They just missed the 4 in 2020 and were in the 8 almost all year in 2021. Proactively gutting the list at that point would've been crazy.

By the end of 2022 not many had much value.

Richmond might be best off trading out their middle aged players of value. But it would also ensure they're not competing for a flag until at least the early 2030s once the 2024-2026 draftees start hitting their prime.

 

[oak79]

Is it hindsight though?

Plenty were saying this in 2020 and 2021 but the club doubled down on itself and started blaming the hub, Vic bias, injury etc..

Misread their own list and instead focussed on rewarding players for the flag rather than looking fwd.

You said after 2018 - not 2020 or 21. That's a different argument.

There's no way any of those 3 would have been traded after 2018. Eagles played finals in both 2019 & 2020 - even with the covid shenagins. They should have done better in 2019.

 

[Coach_Required]

Eagles should have traded out Gaff, Sheed and Barrass after the 2018 flag for high end draft picks.

What's funny is people telling us atm not to trade out players like Baker, Rioli & Bolton because it will hurt our list.

 

[Altum Volantes]

What's funny is people telling us atm not to trade out players like Baker, Rioli & Bolton because it will hurt our list.

….but even then - you are 4 years removed from your last flag already, and have already attempted ‘topping up’ with Taranto and Hopper to replace the likes of Cotchin.

Richmond are essentially where the Eagles were in 2022 - but you have players with trade value that actively want to leave (apparently) - something the Eagles only experienced once with Willie Rioli who was perhaps the most tainted player you could ask for in terms of trade value. Even then, your club is keen to retain all the players who want out (apparently)….probably because they know that dumping out mid age good players for a glut of draft picks sounds good in theory…but probably not ideal in practice for a rebuild.

Those mid age players are the guys you would have hoped to build your team around over the next 3-5 years while the young crop gain experience. That’s why Rioli has another 3 years on his deal and Bolton another 4 and you are keen to keep Baker. It’s not some master plan by the Moneyball gurus at Richmond.

 

[Footy Smarts]

….but even then - you are 4 years removed from your last flag already, and have already attempted ‘topping up’ with Taranto and Hopper to replace the likes of Cotchin.

Richmond are essentially where the Eagles were in 2022 - but you have players with trade value that actively want to leave (apparently) - something the Eagles only experienced once with Willie Rioli who was perhaps the most tainted player you could ask for in terms of trade value. Even then, your club is keen to retain all the players who want out (apparently)….probably because they know that dumping out mid age good players for a glut of draft picks sounds good in theory…but probably not ideal in practice for a rebuild.

Those mid age players are the guys you would have hoped to build your team around over the next 3-5 years while the young crop gain experience. That’s why Rioli has another 3 years on his deal and Bolton another 4 and you are keen to keep Baker. It’s not some master plan by the Moneyball gurus at Richmond.

There's definitely been no master plan.

Let's be real. Richmond sold the farm for Taranto and Hopper. It failed badly and now their middle aged players know it's another 4+ seasons before finals are a realistic chance.

So Richmond are tossing up whether to buy back the farm they sold for Taranto and Hopper by giving up better players like Bolton and Rioli who don't like the look of a deep rebuild at Richmond.

 

[Freomaniac]

Great another Tigers thread about rebuilds, drafts and our future.

Richmond's rebuild will be compared to all 17 other clubs. North Melbourne especially

 

[Freomaniac]

Eagles should have traded out Gaff, Sheed and Barrass after the 2018 flag for high end draft picks.

debatable about Gaff. He was out of contract at the end of 2018. Then had that suspension for Belting Brayshaw.

 

[Morro]

Richmond's rebuild will be compared to all 17 other clubs. North Melbourne especially

True, and if the players leave that are expected to, we are really blazing a new rebuild trail. If it fails, the world will fall in around us but if it works, we are genius's

 

[Taper]

Richmond's rebuild will be compared to all 17 other clubs. North Melbourne especially

Who do you think is better placed in terms of their rebuild?
West Coast or Richmond?

 

[Football Tragic]

….but even then - you are 4 years removed from your last flag already, and have already attempted ‘topping up’ with Taranto and Hopper to replace the likes of Cotchin.

Richmond are essentially where the Eagles were in 2022 - but you have players with trade value that actively want to leave (apparently) - something the Eagles only experienced once with Willie Rioli who was perhaps the most tainted player you could ask for in terms of trade value. Even then, your club is keen to retain all the players who want out (apparently)….probably because they know that dumping out mid age good players for a glut of draft picks sounds good in theory…but probably not ideal in practice for a rebuild.

Those mid age players are the guys you would have hoped to build your team around over the next 3-5 years while the young crop gain experience. That’s why Rioli has another 3 years on his deal and Bolton another 4 and you are keen to keep Baker. It’s not some master plan by the Moneyball gurus at Richmond.

It's actually really interesting how this is panning out for us. I think you're 100% correct about design versus chance. This was not planned by the club but if it does then we will be potentially replacing role players for structural players. Bolton and Baker are the 'cherry on top' type of players that star in a good team. They are not the type that drive success or drag the rest of the side to success. Both players are not part of our spine, do not win the inside ball (both can but it's not their primary roles) and don't generate run and carry. Whatever team gets them will be getting two match winners but they get lost in average teams.

Rioli on the other hand generate a massive amount of ball and drive off the half backline. He also provides leadership to the Aboriginal boys and the team as a whole. If he goes, they leaves big hole that we will miss but he is not a key position player, primary ruck or first choice midfielder.

If we do trade these players out for multiple first round picks each (Bolton and Rioli are worth two first rounders each), then we can draft in structural players that will drive our midfield, be key forwards/backs and be the foundation of success in the future - not just 'bonus' players. Assuming they all work out - I'd take that.

Now, perhaps all of these players stay and we don't get the swath of draft picks or more likely, some will stay and some will go, but in the end I think it just might be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Rich01]

West Coast need to appoint their head coach first.
The absolute worst thing they can do is appoint Schofield to the position without undertaking due process.

It will go all David Teague

David Teague

Age

43

Ht

186cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.2

2star

HB

1.8

2star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.0

3star

/ Ross Lyon on them if they do. They have the history of being a professional, well run organisation so I don’t think they will go this way, as long as the CEO stays out of the decision making process and lets the board do their thing.

 

[Firesharter]

Don’t reckon many coaches would want to go to a club where the head coach was white-anted by a first year player and the board bowed to his whims.

 

[bzparkes]

as long as the CEO stays out of the decision making process and lets the board do their thing.

Err what?

Let a bunch of non-football people appoint a head coach, as opposed to a bloke who took a team to a grand final as head coach himself?

The panel appointed to select the head coach are all football people + an external consultant who helped when Simpson was appointed.

The only director involved in the process is Rowan Jones, an '06 premiership player himself.

 

[MrPenguin]

Don’t reckon many coaches would want to go to a club where the head coach was white-anted by a first year player and the board bowed to his whims.

Poor comment.

 

[Freomaniac]

Who do you think is better placed in terms of their rebuild?
West Coast or Richmond?

Well I predict both sides will spend 2025 and 2026 and even 2027 in the bottom 6. Then in 2028 both teams will contend for finals .

Short term I think west coast are in front. They will be more competitive in 2025. They will win half their home games being a non Vic club.

Richmond will struggle getting wins for the next 2 or 3 seasons due to their list and being a Victorian club. They have a home ground advantage over 8 non Vic clubs.

Long term when both sides are decent, I think tigers will be better if they make top 8 in 4-6 years time

 

[Freomaniac]

Don’t reckon many coaches would want to go to a club where the head coach was white-anted by a first year player and the board bowed to his whims.

Well that coach that was white anted spent 10 years at the club and got a flag

 

[Rich01]

Err what?

Let a bunch of non-football people appoint a head coach, as opposed to a bloke who took a team to a grand final as head coach himself?

The panel appointed to select the head coach are all football people + an external consultant who helped when Simpson was appointed.

The only director involved in the process is Rowan Jones, an '06 premiership player himself.

Hmmm….. then you’d have to assume he hasn’t put his hand up for the gig himself.

 

[bzparkes]

Hmmm….. then you’d have to assume he hasn’t put his hand up for the gig himself.

Well, he's already denied it. Why would he want to coach when he can be CEO?

Just a rumour that began with a suggestion on Midweek tackle that every Vic journo is now running with.

 

[Rich01]

Well, he's already denied it. Why would he want to coach when he can be CEO?

Just a rumour that began with a suggestion on Midweek tackle that every Vic journo is now running with.

Fair enough.

When he was appointed CEO I thought his business creds were pretty lightweight. Solid coaching credentials though. As a supporter I’d prefer a coach in the coaching position and an experienced commercial operator in the CEOs seat.

 

[bzparkes]

Fair enough.

When he was appointed CEO I thought his business creds were pretty lightweight. Solid coaching credentials though. As a supporter I’d prefer a coach in the coaching position and an experienced commercial operator in the CEOs seat.

His business creds? Arguably better than his football ones, which is why WCE were so keen to bring him in.

Bloke set himself up for life back in the 90s in the mining and exploration industry. He did the coaching for shits and giggles but his real passion is business.

 

[Rich01]

His business creds? Arguably better than his football ones, which is why WCE were so keen to bring him in.

Bloke set himself up for life back in the 90s in the mining and exploration industry. He did the coaching for shits and giggles but his real passion is business.

He built his business cred while he was playing for West Coast? Or when he was their runner? I’m interested in these businesses he led at that time.