The "Richmond haven't beaten anyone " myth thread

[Richo83]

As for Arnott, Rance and Vickery...

Arnott - Hard nut with shocking disposal, a short Daniel Jackson for mine.

Arnott has played two games and has shown decent disposal. It's way too early to call on him.

Rance - Ok one week, horrendous the next, rarely seems to kick the ball forwards, often sideways/backwards, panics with ball in hand almost more than anyone else in the league

Huh? Rarely kicks the ball backwards? His job is to beat his opponent and give the ball to better users. He's been good for a good eight weeks now. And how many KPDs his age are outperforming him?

Vickery - High draft pick who has shown very, very small flashes, and usually against the weak sides, and especially against St Kilda, a team without a genuine KPD. Picked up because his old man is boxing coach at the club.

Vickery was picked up because he was highly rated, and still is. He has the 7th highest hitouts to advantage percentage in the competition.

 

[Richo83]

Takes more than 4 weeks to make a player, champ.

The Richmond fans praising McGuane as a "legitimate" 3rd tall have seemingly disappeared since his 4 week burst to open the year...

Sure does, but basing one's opinion of a player on past seasons seems a rather stupid way of rating a player.

 

[MotleyLemon]

But Vickery is a spud now (he's not) so he'll always be a spud. Jackson has been poo up until this year so we can assume he is still poo and ignore his 2013 form. This is your logic isn't it...

No that is your logic. Judging players on 4 weeks of form. Well done. By the same token Delidio is a pretty ordinary player, given he (once again) failed to show up against Freo...

Looks like you're just another deluded Richmond fan signing up to BigFooty for your first finals campaign in over a decade. Well done mate, get a clue.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Gee it's very hard for people to accept that we aren't shit anymore, isn't it?
I know we are no world beaters yet, but we're winning the games we should and would have usually dropped.

I'm reasonably happy with our season to date and don't see much area for criticism.

Sure, we haven't beaten some teams above us, but that just shows we aren't at the level yet to compete for a flag or top 4. No big deal, we will get there.

Go tiges.

By the way, to the bloke calling Arnott a spud, turn it up mate. He's played 3 games.

 

[slimdusty4]

its unfortunate. and sometimes the timing of some of our wins, are given a "richmond / grain of salt" perspective. but thats how it is. until we knock off one of these two teams (sydney or hawthorn), we will have to wear it, i just hope (if we win) we don't win by a dodgy umpiring decision or something stupid like that, to have more credibility stripped.

the west coast win is better than credit has been given.
the port adelaide win is better than credit has been given.
the fremantle win is not as good as some richmond fans believe.
and the adelaide and carlton wins are nothing to write home about.

we are 11-5 thats better than most of the competition, and if we can pull one out this weekend, richmond will be where the fans think we are, as apposed to where we actually are. nothing wrong with 11-5, 3rd best defensive team in the comp. I'm content at the moment, and unless we knock off hawthorn sydney geelong essendon or collingwood, caution should be taken.

whilst i understand the frustration of the OP, threads like this only make it worse….
this thread should have waited until we potentially beat a hawks or swans outfit.

 

[MotleyLemon]

Arnott has played two games and has shown decent disposal. It's way too early to call on him.





Huh? Rarely kicks the ball backwards? His job is to beat his opponent and give the ball to better users. He's been good for a good eight weeks now. And how many KPDs his age are outperforming him?



Vickery was picked up because he was highly rated, and still is. He has the 7th highest hitouts to advantage percentage in the competition.

If you can't identify a shocking ball drop due in no small part to Arnott's T-Rex short arms, you don't know footy. I'll absolutely agree he is hard and a good runner, but his disposal by foot will never be any better than "poor".

I'm going to watch Richmond (again) this weekend, and note how many of Rance's possessions travel backwards/sideways. Would be lucky to kick forward once a game, and most times turns it over.

Vickery was highly rated in the media, despite a somewhat middling U18's career. Richmond unfortunately caught wind of this and selected him with their first pick. Would have thought as the son of a boxing coach though he would be at least tough, not a purveyor of this faux-tough-guy act that is absolutely embarrassing. I suppose he is going better than Jayden Post, and Pretty Boy Hislop as your other picks that year though...

 

[Danair]

Can't believe the Swans odds are so short this week, we have nearly half our premiership team/best 22 out! (Goodes, Jetta, Reid, LRT, Mattner, Shaw, Johnson, McGlynn, Rohan)

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

If you can't identify a shocking ball drop due in no small part to Arnott's T-Rex short arms, you don't know footy. I'll absolutely agree he is hard and a good runner, but his disposal by foot will never be any better than "poor".

I'm going to watch Richmond (again) this weekend, and note how many of Rance's possessions travel backwards/sideways. Would be lucky to kick forward once a game, and most times turns it over.

Vickery was highly rated in the media, despite a somewhat middling U18's career. Richmond unfortunately caught wind of this and selected him with their first pick. Would have thought as the son of a boxing coach though he would be at least tough, not a purveyor of this faux-tough-guy act that is absolutely embarrassing. I suppose he is going better than Jayden Post, and Pretty Boy Hislop as your other picks that year though...

It's well known that our drafting was crap.
Vickery was selected at a time where resources and football department spending was very low.
However, I still think he will turn out to be a reasonable selection and his ruckwork has been very good for us this season.
Rance certainly has some iffy parts of his game, but for what it's worth I think he has developed into a very good defender at this level.
Your criticism of Arnot is particularly poor, he has played 3 games for the club and as a 20 year old, will continue to grow with experience.
Jobe Watson was also once a very poor kick of the football, before you know it, he had a brownlow medal wrapped around his neck.
Although I must admit, I don't think Arnot's disposal is TOO bad.

It's a shame you've chosen to look at our negatives when there are many positives about Richmond.
Our recent drafting has been very good and looks to have set us up for an exciting few years ahead.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Can't believe the Swans odds are so short this week, we have nearly half our premiership team/best 22 out! (Goodes, Jetta, Reid, LRT, Mattner, Shaw, Johnson, McGlynn, Rohan)

Yeah but at the SCG you should still be far too strong.
Hoping for a close game!

 

[Madd Dawg Morg]

If you can't identify a shocking ball drop due in no small part to Arnott's T-Rex short arms, you don't know footy. I'll absolutely agree he is hard and a good runner, but his disposal by foot will never be any better than "poor".

I'm going to watch Richmond (again) this weekend, and note how many of Rance's possessions travel backwards/sideways. Would be lucky to kick forward once a game, and most times turns it over.

Vickery was highly rated in the media, despite a somewhat middling U18's career. Richmond unfortunately caught wind of this and selected him with their first pick. Would have thought as the son of a boxing coach though he would be at least tough, not a purveyor of this faux-tough-guy act that is absolutely embarrassing. I suppose he is going better than Jayden Post, and Pretty Boy Hislop as your other picks that year though...

If you can't identify a shocking ball drop due in no small part to Arnott's T-Rex short arms, you don't know footy. I'll absolutely agree he is hard and a good runner, but his disposal by foot will never be any better than "poor".

I'm going to watch Richmond (again) this weekend, and note how many of Rance's possessions travel backwards/sideways. Would be lucky to kick forward once a game, and most times turns it over.

Vickery was highly rated in the media, despite a somewhat middling U18's career. Richmond unfortunately caught wind of this and selected him with their first pick. Would have thought as the son of a boxing coach though he would be at least tough, not a purveyor of this faux-tough-guy act that is absolutely embarrassing. I suppose he is going better than Jayden Post, and Pretty Boy Hislop as your other picks that year though...

Not sure what you consider "most" of the time to be but Rance's DE is 82% and he averages 2.5 clangers a game. There are 128 players who average more than this.

 

[Richo83]

If you can't identify a shocking ball drop due in no small part to Arnott's T-Rex short arms, you don't know footy. I'll absolutely agree he is hard and a good runner, but his disposal by foot will never be any better than "poor".

First of all, there are a number of players with short arms, it doesn't mean they can't kick. From what I've seen, he has nice mechanics and makes good decisions. He's also played 3 games, and is essentially depth. Just like not every Geelong player who played on the weekend will make it, not every Richmond player who played on the weekend will make it either. But I think your criticisms are premature and without evidence.

I'm going to watch Richmond (again) this weekend, and note how many of Rance's possessions travel backwards/sideways. Would be lucky to kick forward once a game, and most times turns it over.

Rance's disposal isn't great, he makes most of his mistakes near goal, and he's slowly becoming more composed. I don't really care that Rance kicks it sideways, but he did kick it forward a number of times. Most KPDs his age are roughly similar in terms of kicking skills. But Rance is a decent mark and provides intensity which is important.

Vickery was highly rated in the media,

And the recruiters, but that's neither here nor there. From your trollish comments I'll assume you're not really here to debate, you've just decided that because Richmond lost to Geelong, that they're rubbish. Again, Vickery's rucking has been solid this year, and he's provided a decent target up forward.

 

[Richo83]

Can't believe the Swans odds are so short this week, we have nearly half our premiership team/best 22 out! (Goodes, Jetta, Reid, LRT, Mattner, Shaw, Johnson, McGlynn, Rohan)

Sydney is in good form, they deserve to be favourites.

 

[Barnzy]

This is why you don't start these sort of threads OP.

Half of the replies have no idea, most of the other half are just trolling. There's a few good posts but more often than not it's buried between all the dribble.

I'm enjoying this season immensely. We're on the right track and have lots of improvement in us over the coming 2-3 years. If it hasn't hit people between the eyes yet Richmond are no joke anymore and are going places then it will soon enough.

 

[MotleyLemon]

Not sure what you consider "most" of the time to be but Rance's DE is 82% and he averages 2.5 clangers a game. There are 128 players who average more than this.

It's easy to hit targets backwards and sideways mate. Stats can prove anything.

 

[BC9_]

Richmond are still a poor team.

They are structurally better than Freo in that they have 2 KPFs but Freo are a mile ahead as far as onfield talent.

Freo wont win the flag this year but their list isn't too far off.

Richmond have way too many spuds to be a top 4 side. Still need to find another good dozen players before you become a contender.

Playing in finals is a good start but don't kid yourself in that you have a list that can win a flag.

Another dozen good players before we become contenders? Are you serious?

 

[Bazzar]

It's easy to hit targets backwards and sideways mate. Stats can prove anything.

Rance is equal 13th for rebound 50s, thats not exactly going back or sideways, Corey Enright has 4 more and Harry Taylor 8 more.

Rance is also ranked 3rd in the league for 1%ers, Harry Taylor is the Cats best ranked 14th.

He is also ranked 5th for intercept marks (1st for contested) and Taylor is ranked 6th (4th for contested)

Your either trolling, or have no idea. The latter is my guess... But then again

 

[Shane Mead]

Seriously. if i hear the Tony" chip on shoulder norfern suburbs hero" Shaw and the like, ramble on anymore about who we have an haven't beaton, i will be sick

1They haven't beaten a team above them? They don't have credbility? Well, for started we only have 5 sides above us and we are yet to play two of them. We have beaten one, lost by a point interstate in another clash and lost two others (geel and ess).

2In the meantime, i hear about how Freo can win the flag, are brilliantly coached and have enormous credibility, Really?
Can someone tell me how many sides above them this credible side has beaten? Answer?

We beat Freo with players out and get told it doesn't really count. if we lsot, it woudl have been a choke. no win situation. Will it be the same this week if we beat Sydney?

Before I address your points, you can only beat who is put in front of you. So Richmond right now deserve their spot in the top 8.

1. This doesn't mean a question mark on Richmond being legit is not reasonable. It just means Richmond have some chance to prove it wrong. If they fail, then it validates what we initially thought.
2. Freo had some of their best players out through injury and have played at the G once this year if I am not mistake. Does this take away from that win? No. Does it validate Richmond? No. Freo have struggled to get their best team on the park all year.

Essendon are in a similar position. Sydney and Geelong comfortable beat us. Essendon beat Freo by a kick and Freo has changed to win it right at the end. The last time Essendon made the finals, Carlton dominated us. There is a large group of teams outside of Sydney, Geelong and Hawthorn who still have to prove they are not just making up the numbers.

 

[Shane Mead]

Another dozen good players before we become contenders? Are you serious?

More like 50 more games into guys like Ellis, Vlastuin and 2 or 3 more quality kids through the draft away from becoming contenders.

 

[Richo83]

I'd just like to point out that Rome wasn't built in a day. Richmond put another year into their players, draft smartly and possibly find a few free agents and it might contest for a top four position next year, afterall, Richmond is only a couple of games outside the top four currently. That's not bad for a coach who would be in his fifth year of coaching.

 

[Richo83]

Rance is equal 13th for rebound 50s, thats not exactly going back or sideways, Corey Enright has 4 more and Harry Taylor 8 more.

Rance is also ranked 3rd in the league for 1%ers, Harry Taylor is the Cats best ranked 14th.

He is also ranked 5th for intercept marks (1st for contested) and Taylor is ranked 6th (4th for contested)

Your either trolling, or have no idea. The latter is my guess... But then again

Where did you find the intercept marks stat?

 

[Greggy]

Can't believe the Swans odds are so short this week, we have nearly half our premiership team/best 22 out! (Goodes, Jetta, Reid, LRT, Mattner, Shaw, Johnson, McGlynn, Rohan)

Mattners retired isn't he? You have been winning convincingly without most of those players, of course your short favorites. Richmond haven't beaten anyone and have 12 spuds.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Why not? It seems critically important to compare. And yes, I am comparing performance and results, the result of North's season last year is 13th in scores against, it's fairly rare for a team to sit in 13th in scores against and make the finals. So North's season was in part, an anomaly, and their gameplan was bound to unravel in finals, which it did. And I can't remember Richmond coughing up that many goals as quickly as North did against Fremantle or Port, or losing to any side by 100 poinrs, like North did. North's defensive frailties last year are more prominent than Richmond's frailties this year.

In 2012 North conceeded 2097 points (95.3 per game) which was the the 6th worst in the AFL. Richmond currently have the 3rd stingiest backline this year coughing up just 80.7 points per game (behind only Sydney and Fremantle).

 

[BC9_]

More like 50 more games into guys like Ellis, Vlastuin and 2 or 3 more quality kids through the draft away from becoming contenders.

Yes.

 

[TigerTime88]

You can only beat who you play - yes. But Richmond haven't beaten anyone of note.

Their 'scalp' was Freo in Melbourne with a huge injury list to their best players. Fremantle with Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharline, Ballantyne etc is a much better team than the team that lost on Sunday - that's why they are talked up as final contenders.

Richmond were out classed by both Geelong and Essendon, as well as losing an earlier game to Fremantle.

The fact that Richmond haven't played Hawthorn and Sydney yet probably suggests they have a pretty reasonable draw up to now.

Please tell me when a Freo side has fielded a fully fit Pavlich and Sandilands this year?

 

[GetOverIt]

Can't believe the Swans odds are so short this week, we have nearly half our premiership team/best 22 out! (Goodes, Jetta, Reid, LRT, Mattner, Shaw, Johnson, McGlynn, Rohan)

Mattner-seriously? he is retired.
rohan yet to prove he is in your best 22