Strategy The Ruck Conundrum

[SwansProudly]

Naismith/Tippo seems likely to me.

Pretty slow. They'll need to really bust a gut to get to every contest.

Would you have Tippett rucking when the ball is in our forward and Naismith the rest of the ground?

 

[Tuco]

Would you have Tippett rucking when the ball is in our forward and Naismith the rest of the ground?

Not my preference. Just how I see it playing out.

But I think we go back to Sam doing 60% game time. Tippo fwd, yes. Sam will have to ruck around the ground.

We've seen Horse put Sinkers, Buddy, Tippo and Reid in the fwd 50 at the SCG before.

Tippo will go to the middle with Sam off the ground. No much point resting Sam fwd, really.

It's like we have a great ruckman spread across three people. Every one of them has a flaw.

 

[caesar88]

May have become an unpopular opinion after our past few weeks with two rucks, but I would prefer to go small and mobile, and just play one of the three. Tippett's best is better than Naismith's or Sinclair's, so I would probably go with him, but I would also be happy with just Naismith (on early season form) or Sinclair (on recent form).

For mine none of these guys are elite tap ruckmen, so I just want one player who can make a contest and snag a goal or two forward (another reason I'd lean towards Tippett or Sinclair). I think the upside of another running player in the team outweighs having two ruckman.

Obviously the risk is if we get an early injury in a final what do we do? I guess you're a bit screwed if that happens, but I'd prefer to pick the best team, not the safest team.

TBH the player I would replace a ruckman with is Aliir, as then you have two players (him and Reid) who have the versatility to play different positions around the ground - I also just really like him as a player. But that is never going to happen this late in the season.

So at this point, I would just keep the team we have and drop a ruckman for Newman.

I could not agree more. Big guys are really only good if they do one of two things: provide dominance at the ruck contests, or create marking contests around the ground. All three of ours cannot do any of those things. Horse needs to give up on the ruck/forward thing and bring in someone who can move around the ground and play with some speed and creativity (like Aliir, but also Cunningham and Newman I would take over Tippett and Sinclair.) IMO Horse stuffed up when he panicked at the selection table after our recent Hawthorn loss, I just hope we don't rue it come finals time.

 

[willym]

I could not agree more. Big guys are really only good if they do one of two things: provide dominance at the ruck contests, or create marking contests around the ground. All three of ours cannot do any of those things. Horse needs to give up on the ruck/forward thing and bring in someone who can move around the ground and play with some speed and creativity (like Aliir, but also Cunningham and Newman I would take over Tippett and Sinclair.) IMO Horse stuffed up when he panicked at the selection table after our recent Hawthorn loss, I just hope we don't rue it come finals time.

Agreed - I've always thought ruckman was an overrated position unless you have someone who can completely dominate their opponent with tapping (Sandilands), athleticism and skill (NicNat, Goodesy) or endurance (Blicavs). If you have a unicorn ruckman it can actually be an underrated position, but there are rarely any in the league. Who is one ruckman we're genuinely frightened of? Maybe Paddy Ryder, but it's because of his other traits, not his rucking.

I think in most cases though clearances are 80-90% your midfielders, and 10% your ruckman. Hitouts are a massively misleading statistics in most cases. As long as we're not playing peak Sandy punching it 40 metres I'm happy to lose the hitouts and bet on Parker/Kennedy/Heeney winning the ball + have another runner/midfielder in our 22.

 

[MF]

Out of the 3 Sinclair probably deserves his spot the most, however due to the fact that Tippett is a better forward and Naismith is a (slightly) better ruckman he may be the one to make way. Having said that I wouldn't complain if the club decided to stick with the Tippett/Sinclair combo.

 

[Tuco]

Out of the 3 Sinclair probably deserves his spot the most, however due to the fact that Tippett is a better forward and Naismith is a (slightly) better ruckman he may be the one to make way. Having said that I wouldn't complain if the club decided to stick with the Tippett/Sinclair combo.

Yep. I think Sinclair has been playing out of his skin. He even won some great contesrs vs Jacobs which is no mean feat.

Tippett cruels his claims, though.

 

[bungwahl]

Agreed - I've always thought ruckman was an overrated position unless you have someone who can completely dominate their opponent with tapping (Sandilands), athleticism and skill (NicNat, Goodesy) or endurance (Blicavs). If you have a unicorn ruckman it can actually be an underrated position, but there are rarely any in the league. Who is one ruckman we're genuinely frightened of? Maybe Paddy Ryder, but it's because of his other traits, not his rucking.

I think in most cases though clearances are 80-90% your midfielders, and 10% your ruckman. Hitouts are a massively misleading statistics in most cases. As long as we're not playing peak Sandy punching it 40 metres I'm happy to lose the hitouts and bet on Parker/Kennedy/Heeney winning the ball + have another runner/midfielder in our 22.

Going smaller is massively better for our forward pressure and midfield options, but it does mean using Reid a lot more in the ruck. Given his importance and potential for injury, I'd love to keep him as far from the ruck as possible.

Horse does have a point that if a solo-ruck goes down early for us, it'd leave us exposed to rucking an entire game with Reid/Towers/nearest Swan. The flip side is that having two of Tippett/Sinclair/Naismith in the F50 at the same time means our forward pressure is shot.

 

[Tuco]

There is another risk. The risk of a running midfielder getting injured (very common in finals).

If we're already slow, then lose a mid, we're even more exposed.

The argument about a ruckman going down is valid. But not the be all and end all. Especially if we play a losing ruck ( as we've done pretty much all year anyway)

 

[grimlock]

http://neafl.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/NEAFL-Rules-2017-FINAL.pdf

Quote from page 52.

Therefore Sinclair/Naismith/Tippett could play NEAFL finals (Though, not on the AFL bye weekend) if the Swans seniors are still playing finals

Keep reading further, the next point is

A primary or rookie listed AFL player is eligible to play in the Competition finals series Match where there is a bye/week off in the AFL competition provided he has not played in an AFL team in the week prior to the Competition Finals match, irrespective of whether or not he has played in a Competition Match that season.

 

[SouthSwans]

Has to be Naismith & Sinclair, both consistently competitive and based on their 2017 efforts to date are deserved of first preference.

Surely we can't fall for the "maybe he will maybe he won't" Tippett tease again like we did last year when we dropped Nankervis.

If Nais and Sinc are both fully fit I'd be shattered if either were left out for Kurt's umpteenth second chance.

As far as I'm aware Kurt's year hasn't had 45 hitouts in a game like Naismith did against GWS and hasn't booted 5 goals in a game like Sinclair did against St Kilda.

 

[Tuco]

Has to be Naismith & Sinclair, both consistently competitive and based on their 2017 efforts to date are deserved of first preference.

Surely we can't fall for the "maybe he will maybe he won't" Tippett tease again like we did last year when we dropped Nankervis.

If Nais and Sinc are both fully fit I'd be shattered if either were left out for Kurt's umpteenth second chance.

As far as I'm aware Kurt's year hasn't had 45 hitouts in a game like Naismith did against GWS and hasn't booted 5 goals in a game like Sinclair did against St Kilda.

I'd like this. But I cannot see it happening.

Another 14 possessions and a couple of goals this week and Tippo will be undroppable.

The only question mark is where is Sam's fitness at. If Sam doesn't get up Sinkers gets one more chance to go ballistic and cement that spot he's worked so hard for.

 

[bradmanstandguy]

Out of the 3 Sinclair probably deserves his spot the most, however due to the fact that Tippett is a better forward and Naismith is a (slightly) better ruckman he may be the one to make way. Having said that I wouldn't complain if the club decided to stick with the Tippett/Sinclair combo.

Sinclair has improved over the last few games, and he seems fit. But as last game before finals we need game time into both Tippet and Naismith, who are returning from injuries!

 

[mtooler]

Tippo lone ruck and small fwd line for me.

 

[doona]

Tippo lone ruck and small fwd line for me.

You need a better pinch hitter than Towers on the team like Aliir If that was to ever work.

Though, Tippo ain't no lone ruck. Personally I wouldn't go with that combo. Naismith is the only Ruckman I'd be comfortable going solo with.

On Nexus 6P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Swans Blog]

Sinclair/Tippett looks the most likely.

Naismith: He's OK when the ball hits the ground, more physical than Tippett, and he's pretty quick and agile over 20 metres. He doesn't get much of the ball, but is rarely beaten in the ruck. Provides almost no forward 50 influence and doesn't track back in defence enough. Just doesn't have the endurance.

Sinclair: Improved fitness, breaks even or at least nullifies in the ruck, athletic, agile and quick across the ground and is taking contested marks and kicking sausages. Doesn't get much of the ball but he's steadily improving.

Tippett: Massive gap between best and worst. Best is right up there with Mumford levels, worst is arguably the least effective in the league. Best forward of the three and is a bit of a tackle machine when he gets going.

I think that they'll stick with Sinclair & Tippett and play Naismith through the NEAFL finals and get him ready for a crack at the prelim/grand final if they need him. At least with the NEAFL games going right up to the prelim weekend, he'll be fit and ready to come straight in.

My concern is that Tippett has proven himself to be quite ineffective as a forward during the finals, and with Hayward potentially missing the finals altogether (or Towers), the Swans need a target.

 

[scaryness]

Has to be Naismith & Sinclair, both consistently competitive and based on their 2017 efforts to date are deserved of first preference.

Surely we can't fall for the "maybe he will maybe he won't" Tippett tease again like we did last year when we dropped Nankervis.

If Nais and Sinc are both fully fit I'd be shattered if either were left out for Kurt's umpteenth second chance.

As far as I'm aware Kurt's year hasn't had 45 hitouts in a game like Naismith did against GWS and hasn't booted 5 goals in a game like Sinclair did against St Kilda.

Has Sinclair even kicked 5 goals total since that game?

 

[SouthSwans]

Has Sinclair even kicked 5 goals total since that game?

Has he even spent 5 minutes in the forward half since that game? No, Tippett and his big name are sitting in his spot.

 

[Punts]

If only Naismith could actually take a mark around the ground of just be competitive in a marking contest to bring it to ground

Imo he is not best 22

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

he can do it but needs to be fit...the guy played injured a few times and struggled to get to contests.

 

[SilentHunter_]

If only Naismith could actually take a mark around the ground of just be competitive in a marking contest to bring it to ground

Imo he is not best 22

Unfortunately I agree with you on this. Naismith is a great tap ruck though but that's not enough.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Possibly the mix depends on who our opponents are in the next month and a bit.

 

[SwansProudly]

Possibly the mix depends on who our opponents are in the next month and a bit.

that's why Naismith needs this game under his belt, otherwise if he is needed for finals he would not have played for > 4 weeks

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

But is he fit to play this week?

 

[SwansProudly]

But is he fit to play this week?

Well, if fit

 

[swansfan51]

Unfortunately I agree with you on this. Naismith is a great tap ruck though but that's not enough.

Certainly not great, ok to good at best. He would still get flogged by the real "great" tap ruckmen in the league like Ryder.

So he breaks even or does slightly better than breakeven in the ruck, then does SFA around the ground. Its a no from me until that changes.